The best urban guerilla handgun set up

My friend and i have this running joke between us for many years about what we call the urban guerilla handgun for urban guerilla warfare ...Here is some basic ideas about we call urban guerilla handgun .We have back and forth saying that a handgun can be both offensive and defensive weapon platform for the weapon to work in a urban area

Here is my idea about a multi use type of handgun and the reason i chose the beretta m9 9mm cal handgun as my urban guerilla handgun because of the all the local national guard units carry the M9 handgun as a basic handgun when in uniform..plus the fact that a little gunsmithing is need for the weapon to be turned into the offensive handgun system with parts to mount the scope on the handgun as it need along with threading of the suppressor on the barrel as need with a threaded barrel system along with some minor changes to the trigger system and sighting system ..

Here is some basic examples of the layout of the diff system that can be used with the M9 as the base weapon ..

1st picture is of the basic defensive handgun
2nd picture of the basic socalled offensive handgun that can be used out to 50 yards for special need areas
3nd picture of parts of the socalled offensice handgun
4th picture of the basic home defensive handgun
5th picture of the offensive handgun system with suppressor and flashlight
6th picture of the offensive handgun system with suppressor

 

Great choice. I have a bud with the same set up in two handguns- only without the Aimpoint Micro or light rail.

I have nothing bad to say about the M9. Some do, but it's usually because of lack of any understanding of pistol basics- no fault of the M9. As an advisor, I was often alone with only my M9, surrounded by Iraqis. Never felt under-gunned and was confident enough in my own ability that 90% of everyone in the room could be horizontal if the situation dictated. Of course, in that mission set, you start to accept a lot of things. My holster of choice was a Safariland 6004. Check em' out.

 

We have this running joke between us ever since the H&K Mark 23 came out as the socalled offensive handgun system and the amount of money spent on that thing could went into the training of the soldiers to use the m9 better along with better ammo design for useing it in a offensive handgun role..

The idea behind the socalled special needs set up came from beening in a Europe and some the close ranges we had to deal with when doing ops in civ clothing and we where allways trying to think of smaller and more concealable weapon system when in those areas when dress in the local fashion for carrying a backpack around there got there eyes on you as a someone they want to take a closer look at ..

So we starting looking at the socalled ISPC style Race pistol but with parts that could take off the pistol and hidden on the body in pouchs design for the item on the belt ..The whole thing it had to be able to be assmbled and disassmbled in less in some many seconds for use and after use in a ops

When walking around in some of the areas there we notice how close some of the ranges where and useing a high powered rifle like the 5.56.mm rifle round inside this ranges where basically over kill and a chance to go through the target and into a another person which was going to be a bad thing for the Europe was one of those places where a round hitting a civilian was going to get you some type of problem with lawsuits and maybe jail sentence there if the local government made enough noise about how the ops was handle in the press ..

The one thing we notice was the close range of the shots to take out the bad guys sentry's or take out the bad guy themself's where not going to be more than 20 yards max in some of the socalled back street areas that we where working in at the time..

Alot of the socalled long 20.yard shots where from one corner turn to the next corner turn in the street as they design the socalled street grid in some this citys never to allow a enemy force to be able to build up enough stength to able overcome the defenders of the place as they fell back through the city streets defending the place ..For a small number of defenders could bottle up the larger attacking force in this small streets system with there twist and turns in the street grid system

For those who have been to Europe and walked around in some of the citys back areas when touring the areas ..So when looking at the American or other big country's citys we where haveing this running idea of how to get in and out of the area with only the tools on the body to deal with the guerialla or freedom fighter or as the military trainer to the freedom fighters or guerilla fighter movement that we has military personal are sent in to train them as a force multiplier to our side as the we take the fight to the socalled leaders of the area we are working in ..


Since you had beening Irag do every notice how tightly close where the walls on some of the older streets where with very little distance between some of the next turn on some of the streets then open back up with another alley way or street and some other modern streets where wide open and those older streets must have given you guys nightmares about trying to clear them ..For they where a set of twisting and turning down streets that became alley ways and then streets again there in Baghdad and fighting in a urban setting ..

Alot of people bad mouths the M9 as a military sidearm i did not for me it met all the socalled things i wanted in a sidearm ..it was easly to use and takedown for cleaning ..it has enough ammo in the magazine to do the job when it need and it was concealable when i need to carry it that way when working Civ Cloth ops as a MP in the Army

 

I have the Smith & Wesson M&P .40c with the crimson trace laser grips. Now my question besides a tach light, can you stick a suppressor on that gun ? Now mind you I never had though of suppressing it because I actually though running a suppressor on a civilian handgun was at best illeagal......... I always carry with my gun on my left, toward the rear, on hip in a blackhawk serpa, I can keep it well hidden there with my clothing so no problem. I do practically live with it on my hip and a fanny pack on oriented toward my front for access throughout my day....I try to carry 5 mags in my fanny pack plus the one in the gun,(planning on getting new larger fanny pack for more mags....just in case). I realize I may never use that many.....But it is better to be safe than sorry. just want to get your thoughts.

 

Yes it can be suppressor and yes it legel to own with the propler paperwork from the atf with the tax stamp ..you should look at the AAC Tri-Rant 9mm cal set with a what is called recoil booster set up to help the weapon cycle with the unit attched to the barrel ..

What we where talking about is the socalled Geurilla movement that we the military will work with after or dureing a socalled freedom movement inside the country and we would be training the people for the socalled fight inside the citys not the country side like a more tradition movement that was more of the people in the country side fight with the socalled forces of the government ..

As a MP in the military we where tasked with some misson that had to deal with the socalled city guerilla fighter or movement and we had to step back and rethink it approched to the socalled how to fight the socalled urban warfare of the socalled 20th century way of thinking ..

The USMC has the best model system of a three block war inside a city and how it fought with the military forces to expand into a 12 or 16 block area of operation for the socalled gueriall force inside the city or look at the British SAS personal and how they dealt with the forces inside the northern Ireland citys with the IRA fighters or the VC inside the south Vietnam citys and how they worked againest the socalled government forces ..

 

Ok Hank I will look into that system along with the tactics used in protecting ones own ass in from getting invaded by bad guy lead, yet trying eliminate the opposition with extreme violence of action.

 

*Nearly* any pistol can be suppressed these days. Some modifications may have to be made, but even pistols with less than straight, more vertical blow back, like Glocks, are now being suppressed. A lot of this came with new, lighter materials being used in suppressor manufacturing.

 

never did like the way the XD fit my hand for some reason also could not stand the glock as a duty weapon also but there was a couple of the guy's who had some work done to the glock and after the work they put into it they where a sweet little handgun for CCW carry .. but as a basic on the street duty weapon it a cummy duty weapon for a officer or sheriff haveing to carry with it trigger system and lack of safety system but for the trigger ..

 

I've been roving youtube allot the past few week while I've been sick, but I got looking at a Baby glock a 27 to be exact. That handgun Impresses the dog poop out of me, and just the fact I could stick a 31 round mag in it, really get the juices flowing for me. The thing that really impresses me is just the fact you can change the Barrel and turn it into a 9mm, thanks to Lonewolf. So I don't when I can get it But yeah I'm going to a proud papa of a Bouncing Baby Glock 27, in .40 s&w.

 

Hey fellas, this may stir the pot a little - but if stealth's what you're looking for, how 'bout a nice hi-cap P22 or Mosquito (or one of the 1911/Glock) conversions?
I know, I know - low stopping power - but lots of advantages to make up for it. Low report. High round count. Near non-existent recoil makes rapid quarter size three shot groups commonplace. Ammo is prolific and obtainable, to say the least.
No good against hard targets, but then neither is most 9mm. Great against kneecaps, necks and faces tho. Just sayin.


IR

 

The 1911 would be my pick. Common as corrupt cops, they have been made for over 100 years and STILL concided the best by people who are at the sharp end. Commercial con kits include .22 LR, 9mm Luger/.38 Super (same slide, different barrel, I use the same Super mags for both), .45 ACP, .460 Roland (and other super powered cartridges). In Europe, you can get a Colt made .30 Luger from the factory, NOT sold here in the USSA! I made a .30 Mauser barrel after seeing a Nam home made 1911 in .30 Mauser, which actually worked well. The .40 S&W does NOT play well with the 1911 platform, it can be done, but is not recommended by me.

Parts are all over and you can literally build a complete gun and not use two parts from the same company. There are dozens of 1911 builders (if the frame is forged and made in the USSA, it is made by S&W, Springfield Armory uses Taurus frames and slides, many of the rest are Philipino, made by Armscor - Rock Island Armory, Hi-Standard, Shooters Choice, etc, a few other frame makers who claim they make their own frames, but I have no personal experience with them) who make more parts than you can shake a stick at.

 

I think a .45 LC Derringer loaded with .410 shot would be it. When pressed directly against the abdomen, the body acts just like a giant suppressor, though it can be quite messy.

 

The best silenced pistol I've been around was the Hi Standard HDM. It has been around since WWII because it is accurate, good balance, reliable, and quiet with subsonic ammunition.

 

If a pocket 9mm is not enough, you need a real fighting rifle, because the pistol is not braced upon your shoulder and your cheek, it is quite inferior to the rifle, beyond about 10 yds. I say that as a world class IPSC combat handgun competitor, too. A short barreled AR-15, with a retractable stock, can easilly be concealed in a small backpack, gym bag, grocery sack, or a large ATTACHE case. There is no need to handicap yourself with the large handgun. Also, 127 gr subsonic 223 ammo can be had, making it hit as "hard" as subsonic 9mm rds, with the ability to pull head shots at 100 yds, too. For situations where you can accept the sound level of a 22 rifle, the suppressed 223 sonic "crack" sounds just like and unsuppressed 22lr rifle.

the old Hi standard 22 hg is pathetic by modern standards. The holes in the barrel tear pieces off of the sides of the bullet, and no accuracy or power is gained by having the barrel be any longer than the first row of holes in the barrel. The sound suppression of the Hi Standard is poor, too. Today, we use the quick detachable barrels of the plastic S&W (if we want a lw pistol) or the BuckMark Browning, cut the barrel to 3" long, and have an OAL of the gun and suppressor of 8.5", not the 14" of the Hi Standard.

This is done by having the can telescope back around the (reduced diameter) barrel, by having the main can tube be "sleeved' by another tube around the main tube, running the can "wet", deadening the 'ring' of the metal tubes with rubber "armor", by having the area between the tubes filled with screen wire, to help "soak up" the heat and blast of the powder gases, and having an "underchamber" mounted under the can, with segments of screenwire in this "trough", in effect making the can look like an O/U shotgun.

By keeping the OAL that of a 1911 Gov't model, the suppressed .22 can be worn IWB, for a swift concealed draw and multiple shots at the enemy's head. At ranges up to 10 yds, multiple hits can be had as swiftly as 5x per second with this gun, making it truly effective in skilled hands. Naturally, by taking more time, its effective range can be greatly extented. It is quite accurate, too, grouping 2" at 25 yds, standing with no brace, both hands on the pistol.

 

you are the gunkid there sir or next of kin to his way of thinking ..the 22.is a poor choice for this type of work because of haveing to get close to the target and to make a clean kill ..

the idea was draw from the streets of europe where the 9mm will work at close range and far enough away inside the socalled 30.yard mark to make it a clean kill without alot of problems of dealing with the socalled exiting of the body ..

the idea was to be able to stay when in a 30.yard mark of the target and use a light wieght sniper weapon system that has enough firepower to defend one self and to be concealable to wear and have the cartridge that could be taken off the local military and police depts to feed the weapon ..

now with that go back to beening the gunkid and take the 22 back to the barn where it good for killing pest and target pratices round and leave the real ammo to the rest of us to use in the fight ..

 

Since I can't see myself in an urban combat scenario, I can't add much here...Besides as far as suppressed or "silenced" goes, my .357 ain't buying it!
Now "IF" I were in such a scenario, I'd chose my battles carefully and use a bow! Now that's pretty quiet! Some prefer a crossbow...?