Thinking of scraping together funds( i.e selling off all other dust collecting toys)to buy a new bolt gun for "hunting/ precision long range shooting fun". Don't have one just my old no4 .303 brit. 600-1k yards effective ("tactical") range.Though deer Hunting shots around here are much shorter (<300). I have always had a "hard-on"("lust") for the Steyr ssg in.308 I do not hand load (yet). Detachable mag not important(drop floorplate is fine). Heavy barrel looks tacti-cool ;I understand its "not strictly necessary" (The Steyr has tapered barrel...) Savage 10 ? remmy700 ? Older winchester70 (never owned one)? Build a savage or just buy the Steyr and be done? I am considering .308; 300winmag;and/or 30.06. I don't have any of those in the rack yet.. I am leaning toward .308 :time tested: "tacti-cool"!; less recoil...match ammo. Money is (as always) an issue.What would you build?
Any good make in .308Win is a winner. Brass is basically free at the range, or very easy to find and buy. Huge choice of bullets (depending on what your rifle likes). Not too much recoil for the power. My new-to-me Remmy Model Seven in .308Win has shocked me with it's tight 100 yard groups, using my handloads. Lets just say I can keep inside an inch, honestly, and repetitively. I am using a civilian equivalent to the GI match loads. I figured whatever our finest snipers use, I'd try to come as close as I can to it. I don't have the skill, but I do have the tools..... If I miss, it's all my fault! I need to find a range that goes longer than 100 yards to see what it can really do! My local range is limited, but it's free and close by. I have seen excellent performance from Savage, Remington, Winchester and Ruger - it comes down to what you like best in looks and feel.
So whats' the deal with 7.62x51 being "dimensionally different" ( internal case dimensions?)? I always though they were directly interchangeable.Just different case thickness? Should chamber the same though ? yes?/no?
All of this is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt and don't get offended. This is still America and you can buy whatever you want; whatever tickles your whimsy. But... .308 and 7.62 are virtually the same cartridge. Some people with more time on their hands may say nay, but a BOLT GUN (or any SA chambered in 7.62 nato) will not notice the difference. Probably only detectable by the use of a chrono. Almost all surplus shoots like crap (not MOA) anyway. That's really the only reason to shoot a bolt gun these days, since modern semiautos are just as good or even better with ammunition handloaded with care. Barrel diameter only matters in a few instances- multiple, rapid shots in my sporter taper Rem 700 .308 strings them out pretty good. More than I would like. Another instance is with a suppressor. That same barrel has a point of impact shift when I take the suppressor off the end of the barrel; nearly 8" upwards! Slow fire it shoots great. I can keep them on the x inside the x ring if I let it cool down between shots. I usually shoot prone from the ground, using the bipod and a 6-24x42 Tasco. I swapped the stupid factory stock when I noticed it twist when I was laying sideways on a slight slope and had to cant the rifle a little bit. Bell & Carlson make very nice stocks for the price, and have a very comfy recoil pad to boot. To this day, I still wish I would have gotten a varment barrel. At the time I purchased the rifle, they were all but impossible to locate. I'd try again, but now the price of a Rem 700 has skyrocketed! Even the sporter models are a little too pricy for me to want to bother with them. If I were to get a new factory rifle today, I would look into the Howa line of rifles. If you go to the right gun shop, you can find some truely incredable prices, something you hardly get these days- some value! Mossberg also has some inexpensive models out there, I just don't have much experience with them.
Weatherby has its Vanguard line at Bass Pro right now for $399 and it guarantees 1MOA. EDIT: Link http://www.weatherby.com/product/rifles/vanguard_2
.308Win and 7.62X51 aren't the same. Yeah, you CAN put either into the chamber of the other....... Pressure is the key difference. Some older milsurp rifles aren't up to the max pressures of hot .308 loads. For my Spanish Mausers, I handload a lighter 7.62 load, basically to .30-40 Krag level. The FR8 can take regular .308, being on the strong Mauser 98 action. The CETME takes ONLY 7.62X51 cases, as it has a brutal extraction that can and has ripped commercial .308 cases in half. Military cases are thicker and stronger. Look at SAAMI specs, and the difference in 7.62 and .308 becomes clear. There is also the fact military rifles have looser chambers. My current 7.62 loads work fine in the Mausers and CETME - will not chamber in my Remmy Model Seven. Loaded the 7.62 and .308 on the same press, same dies, same adjustments. Looking at them side-by-side they look identical. There is 'some kind' of difference!
I have been told that .308 commercial loads are loaded much hotter than older mil surp was...I was told to NOT fire new Winchester .30-06 ammo in my old 1917 Eddystone, or it could blow up... I bought an Enfield Jungle Carbine Mark V, in .308. Again, I was warned (sternly) Do NOT use commercial ammo, or suffer the consequences! But for long-er ranges I'd really prefer the '06 round. Just a personal preference. Nowadays I'm shooting the Moisin-Nagant in 7.62 x 54r. Now they are NOT nearly as accurate as new/current modern rifles in most calibers. But they do ok . I recently found (much to my dismay) that the ammo I'd bought, that was soft point, but I cannot use them for ANY hunting purposes. It was found by Game and Fish to be steel jacketed ammo with a simple copper wash. Not legal, even though they are soft lead pointed! Anyway, today I'd go with the .308 due to availability, and lower costs than the others!
I have a win 70 300 wsm that's my long range hunting arm... In pratice I can honestly say I can hit a steel plate at 600 yards 9 out of ten times... as long as it's not to gusty... our range doesnt have the ability to shoot longer than 600 yards... But if your on a budget might I suggest you take a close look at the new “MOSSBERG’s 100ATR Night Train II” Tactical-Life.com » MOSSBERG’s 100ATR Night Train II no it's not top of the line but as a good starter package for under $800 new... it's not a bad deal.
I went with the 308 Savage, but after seeing this I'd take it. Great price, 1MOA guarantee and you'll probably end up spending more on a quality scope.
If i'm doing the blue helmet resupply on the ammo, I'm pretty sure the nato rounds will be fine for me. I'm not looking at an 500 yard tack driver. Just something like Minute of Man at 300 yards or less (more than likely less). AO isn't open here. We are shotgun country.
T/C Encore 308 My favorite rifle, single shot so you make your shot count. The rifle is highly more accurate than I am.
Seems like I am bringing back dead threads, so here goes my .02... Out of your choices I'd go 338LM or 300 WM. Reason being is that those two calibers offer you some serious range. The 300WM of course will be cheaper to reload compared to 338LM. I too am a huge fan of Steyr and I owned a very rare model. The Stery "tactical" with a McMillan A3 stock...reports say there were under 500 of these rifles offered in the US...I ended up selling it to my friend. The Steyr rifles shoot very well, but to be honest, the big hang up is that their barrels are pressed in so if you ever wear out your barrel...you would have to send it to Europe to have them rebarrel it for you. If you are going to do a budget build...look no further than Savage/Stevens 200. For around $100 in tools, you can swap your own barrels in under 20 minutes and save MONEY and time. You can get a prefit Savage barrel from a good company for roughly $300 and it will shoot lights out and still be cheaper than going with a Remington. I had a Remington 5R and it was a decent factory rifle, but once I added an AICS 1.5 stage chassis along with having the rifle refinished and a new bolt knob...it cost way more than my Savage rifle and the Savage will outshoot the Remington every time. You could build a budget 300WM or 338LM via a Savage action and still have a hammer. I thought about selling my Sako TRG 42 to get the latest Savage 338LM....I know the Savage will shoot, but Savage action sucks compared to Sako action and the trigger is awesome on my TRG. I am going to be refinishing the TRG along with the Savage...I'm not a fan of SS barrels. Sako TRG 338LM Savage 308...barrel wasn't even broken in when I shot that group...that was rounds 11-15. Remington 5R DPMS AR10...great shooting rifles at a great price.
