While fitting some barrels at work today I started to think about the weaker of our society. Both physically and mentally. As usual I look back on past experiences for indicators of what people do in bad circumstances. For example, during a major ice storm many years ago there were three cases where people commited suicide because they were trapped in their homes with no food, no heat, no electricity, and no communication in or out. More recently (last year) two people commited suicide in the neighboring County when they lost everything in a flood. A couple I know of in our County did the same. So, SHTF and people come to the realization that society and life as we know it has changed and not for the better. This raises some questions like; How many people do you think will just give up as opposed to trying to survive? Should we try to stop them if they are trying to kill themselves? If someone in your group mentions suicide or giving up what do you do?
Many will give up in severe conditions, most of society has been programmed not to be self reliant. If someone in my group/someone I care about, I will talk them out of it. If not part of my group ? Do I need them ? Would I want them in my group ? Am I willing to teach them all they will need ? Can I teach them the will, the mental toughness to survive ? Assume limited surplus of resources, are they worth carrying ?
Not trying to sound cold trying to stop if they have already took the actions needed to complete it could get you hurt for trying to help. As for it being a person in the group thats a tough one, you have to think what if I stop him and then next week he was to snap and kill the half the group or the total group. Could one depend on that person knowing they have already broke, would that person become a burden on the group.
There are some traditions that say if you save a life, you become responsible for that someone. Weigh carefully before intervening.
Those who aren't really serious and who only wish for attention will make sure their attempt fails anyway. Those who are serious will not allow me to stand in their way. I might stop them today, but tomorrow they will try again, and most likely in a manner that ensures they are not interrupted. I think we all have the right to live and die in the manner we choose, even if those around us don't agree.
In a SHTF situation, there are two types of people. Those inside the wire and those outside. If you are a prepared monkey, in a group of prepared monkeys, you shouldn't feel the need to off yourself. If you do, I'm sorry, it's outside the wire you go 'cause can't afford to risk someone else getting hurt. Cold? It's not meant to be. The situations we may experience will dictate our actions, and history will judge us. Hindsight will probably be a real bitch.
If the power goes out for a month, I think there's some women that I know that will off themselves because they don't get their daily dose of Facebook attention. That's one thing that if the .gov cuts communications and takes out Facebook, there WILL be a revolt by women with brooms and mace. No offense to female monkeys......you are of higher quality than FB addicts.
Well I see everyone is talking adults ,what about the teens and even some kids .They have never in their life had to adjust to the world that could be coming .I know some of the ones around our grandkids won't handle it well ,but there are others that take to our way of life like a duck to water but what of the others !!
Definitely a question worth considering. If it was one my my friends or family I would try and talk them through their issues. If it was a stranger then sorry to say they'd be on their own. Maybe shout a quick "don't do it" as I was hoofing it out of the area. Some people like to take others when they go and if you don't know the person you don't know if they are one of those kind of people.
The human mind adapts in about three days, if they are depressed and it is temp they should adjust quickly. If they dont they are not going to be save-able. Even if they dont kill themselves they will be a drain on the group and you will have to let them go.
Hey I can live without facebook. I could just start reading real books. Dunno how I'd keep in touch with family outta state, since if Facebook was gone, cellphones probably would be dead too.
VH... if the Industrial Comms Systems are gone.... the only recourse will be Radio.... and out of state will take something like a Ham Radio....
I am usually the last to refer anybody to watch a television show, but Jericho is a good one. It raises some of the concerns raised in this thread, and even though it may be difficult for some viewers to handle, the question of sacrificing our humanity in the attempt to save it is one of the major themes. In a post-apocalyptic scenario, it may be difficult to gauge depression accurately. One who may seem suicidal isn't exactly far off par from the larger group, and it is our own behavior that can effect others the strongest; this means being good toward others even in hard times. Our own actions may have serious consequences, so it would be important to tread softly and try to compose ourselves even when the situation may be very frightening. People will react out of fear, and we must try to account for this when TSHTF. Not everybody will be out to get us --and a little faith in our neighbors has the potential to go a long way. If we shut our doors to the outside world and treat everyone as potential threats, the psychology of the environment will dictate the outcome. In other words, a post apocalyptic world may become increasingly difficult the more we resort to abandoning our humanity. As for suicide alone, having experience with it first hand and losing family and friends to suicide, there's not much we can do. Suicide is a selfish act, and if an individual wants to die badly enough, there isn't anything we can do to stop them aside from close intervention and leading by example. We all have a choice to make, do we extend ourselves to protect the weak and timid, or do we just focus on ourselves alone? When it comes to survival, performing the latter will save your own life, but who knows what you may be losing by not taking the time and effort to lift up the weak? This question among many will have to be answered at some point, if we are ever placed in this situation. None of us want to have weak friends and neighbors. None of us want to go out of our way and leave the confines of safety. We have to ask what is right and what we will lose if we decide to ignore our role as human beings. Also note --you can't save everybody. Even a sheepdog loses a sheep now and again.
+1 You've got thousands of people right now fighting for their lives and some a$$hat dislikes their situation so they choose not to play anymore. Pathetic. (I'm not referring to people with a medical condition that their pain is constant and chronic).
Modern social support, medical care and technology have largely marginalized the phenomenon of "survival of the fittest". If SHTF, especially for say at least 2 years, a lot of folks aren't going to make it. This is already obvious to subscribers of this site, but the "Prozac Nation" is one demographic we don't often discuss. As one who counsels and prescribes for mental health disorders (among the full spectrum of medicine) on a daily basis, there is little we can do for truly depressed/suicidal persons once the meds run out. There is prayer for those who believe. The choice may come down to how much time does one spend either providing counseling (trained or untrained) and/or protecting another person from themselves versus spending time on other essential survival tasks or resting. The needs of the many will eventually outweigh the needs of the few or the one. EDIT: BTW, this is the one reason one sees references to the production of cannabis in some of my posts. It is likely the most useful psychoactive medication one could produce in their own backyard when SHTF.
Some great discussion here, no doubt. Thanks for that, I can see I am thinking in the right direction with this. Im no psych major, I have plenty of real world experience with a LOT of psych cases over the years as a medic though. Working for a private Ambulance company I had the oppertunity to transport a lot of people from the local mental health clinic to more definative mental care in places like NYC, Syracuse, and Rochester. Some of these transport times would be 3 or 4 hours so there was a lot of talking going on in the rig. Knowing what their diagnosis was and getting a thorough update from the treating Dr., I had the background I needed to steer the conversations in "safe" directions. I did learn a lot about mental illness from this experience though. One thing I could never grasp the concept of no matter how many I see are suicides. I have seen more than my fair share and I have heard (or read) a LOT of reasons people have left explaining their decision. Of course love and money are the top two. However, major changes in a persons life (good or bad) causes then to want out as well. Major change is all part of a SHTF situation. I have divided the reasons (I believe) a person will off themselves into some sub categories 1. The "I cant live without my cell phone" types: These are the mass sheeple you see that cant go anyplace that doesnt have wi-fi and are starting their assimilation to the borg around the ears. My opinion on these folks is harsh but necessary.....write em off! Chances are these folks have no skill set that would be useful because they need a computer or computer run machine to accomplish anything. "Food comes from the store" with these folks and they are against anything they concider to be primitive. 2. The weak (mentally/physically): These are folks that may have skills or ability but nobody has ever properly motivated them or pressed them enough to show them what they are made of. To me weakness comes in two forms, choice or genes. If it poor genes, write em off. You are not going to be able to make them into something they will never be. For those that choose to be weak then I think they should be given the oppertunity to get properly motivated before writing them off. 3. The "change is bad" types: People in this category have skills and proven ability but if they dont get up at 5:15 am in the shower by 5:20am, start eating breakfast by 5:37am, etc. then they cant get their head right all day. These are the folks I feel are very worth the effort because if a new routine can be established these are probably going to be among the most productive people in your group. 4. The "I will die without my smokes" : We all know that having an outright addiction to something is bad. Some people think that without something they really cant live. Some may be addicted to their Starbucks chai tea while others may have an addiction to something a little stronger. These folks too may be an asset if the right effort is put in. Of course these types need to be taken on an individual basis...you dont want a meth freak running loose in your AO. Plug them at your earliest oppertunity but someone having a hard time kicking the smokes (especially during a high stress situation) may be worth your time. Of course mental illness and suicide specifically is much broader than can be broken down into a few paragraphs on a chat forum but hopefully this will at least give food for thought as to what kind of people may be worth the effort vs. who should feed the fishes.
I think there will be a lot of people commit suicide in any major breakdown of society. If it was someone I know or am close to like family I would do everything God allows me to do to talk them out of it and help them through the pain that is pushing them to that point. I wouldn't put my family in danger and I wouldn't tie someone down or lock them up. If someone truly wants to do it and nothing you do will help then they will find a way to do it but I would do everything I can to help them through it. I realize in any major incident there will be people that mean to harm you but if any form of society is going to be reformed then it is imperative that the entire country works together at some point. Look at the difference in how societies formed with most tribal type nations, constantly fighting and hurting each other instead of working together and forming a stronger nation, compare that with how the USA formed and became the most powerful nation in the history of the world, of course there have been many problems but it took a lot of teamwork from a lot of people.
When delt lemons, make lemonade.... I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline. Got a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.
