I tend to obsessively overthink these things, so feel free to tell me so. Setup: I'm a revolver guy Problem: I'm really good with 38's, not nearly as good with 357 (and my already damaged ears can't take much more). I wonder about the stopping power of the 38 loads, but I worry about my competence after the first shot with 357 loads. Possible Answers: 1) High level of skill with 38 +P is sufficient. Several quick and accurate shots will suffice. 2) One good shot w/357 should do the job, no need to be as concerned with follow up shots. 3) Find a good middle ground with a 44 special or 45 acp revolver (less noise and recoil than 357 but more stopping power than 38) Anyone ever use a revolver chambered in 45 acp? S&W makes some, but I've never tried one out. p.s. I'm reconsidering the 38's stopping power because I just read about the killing of John Lennon. He took 4 shots..... 2 in the shoulder area, 2 in the back, one of wich hit his aorta, and he still managed to climb 6 steps and say something before expiring. And he was just a wimpy little hippy.
Well honestly I think you need to reload for your magnum to get the power level down so it is less than a factory magnum yet beyond what is safe in a 38 special case . Reloading a revolver with "Half Moon Clips" which is what you will need with a 45 acp revolver sounds a great deal slower than with traditional speedloaders , add this to the fact that you will lose some velocity due to the barrel cylinder gap and I don't think this is a good idea . The 44 special suffers from lack of good defensive rounds and reloading is almost a necessity there too . Federal has a Hydroshock load for the 357 that is rated to 1300 fps from a 4 inch barrel also Remington has their Golden Saber rated under 1300 one of these might be just what you need . I wish you were local I could and would teach you to shoot a 1911 with confidence and skill .
44 special especially in a full (i.e. "heavy" 44 maggy wll be controllable without the full moon clipsneeded for .45acp)and you get to walk around saying cool thinngs like " do you feel lucky punk?" Not alot wrong with being good with a .38spl ( john lennon was probably coming down off toking a whole lid...I agree .357 is pretty abusive on the shooter and shootee. hits in the right area count. citizen's use a .38 is hard to beat military uses it comes up alittle short. .45 long colt is controllable model 25(?) , loadable up to some pretty stout loadings. What'swrong with using the latest+p+ .38's in your king cobra?????? or are you looking for excuses to buy another toy???
Yeah, I probably just need to go ahead and commit to getting one and getting good with it. I've thought about it MANY times. You may have just seen into my subconcious. That little demon on my shoulder always telling me I have to buy something new and better than what I have. I can't ever seem to make up my mind on this stuff, and now that I have a decent paycheck I'm starting to listen to him a little more. Hmmm.... a new Kimber sounds pretty cool
Re: 45 ACP revolver.... my solution or am I over thinkin it? Well for what it is worth I would skip the Kimber and go with a Colt XSE Commander or if that is stretching the budget get the Taurus PT1911 . Over at WR there is a guy who has a Kimber Raptor with extractor problems right out of the box , they told him to shoot 500 round and call them back . This is total BS on a $1,000+ gun for that kind of money the customer shouldn't be their final QC inspector . Kimbers website plainly states that the customer has to pay shipping to them and that their contact number is NOT a toll free call . Charles Daly has an free 800 number and when I sent a gun in they sent me a UPS tag so they picked up shipping both ways . My opinion is if they aren't going to make the damn thing right in the first place it shouldn't cost me more to get them to fix it . If you do get a Kimber make sure it has an internal extractor if they are too lazy to adjust it correctly at the factory I can send you web-links and you can do it yourself . Get on yahoo chat with a microphone/headset and I can voice chat with you and walk you through it while you get it done . If you get a 1911 heres the thing don't go to the range and expect to stand up and shoot your best with a gun that feels completely new to you . Sit at a bench with a rest and relax and just plink away with the first few hundred rounds and get use to the FEEL of the weapon . Do NOT get a full sized Government model if you have any intentions of carrying the thing as a CCW piece a Commander version is much more pleasant for this application . The greatest thing about the 1911 is the fact that it is so customizable you can get it too feel right in your hand , if it is too thick you can buy slim grips and a flat mainspring housing "If it has an arched one on it" if it is too thin thicker grips , palm swell , finger groves and and arched mainspring housing will all make it feel differently . Triggers of different lengths are available also . Tearing down a 1911 to the bone is also very easy so you don't need to pay a smith to swap out parts to try out different things like triggers .
Blackjack, if you are going to stay with the revolver platform then I recommend just using the .38's for practice, but the .357's for defense/hunting. I do not care for shooting .357's at the range, but when I killed animals with them and shot them while hunting I never heard the blast or felt the recoil. I suspect this would be the same with defensive use. That being said, you know I am a 1911 guy through and through. For your first 1911, make it a Rock Island. Can't beat the price, and they are very reliable. If you go that route I would recommend the tactical version as it has the extended beavertail which keeps you from being "bit."
I have two 1917 Colts chambered in .45 acp. One had a bulge in the barrel when I bought it at a yard sale so I shortened it to 2" and re-crowned it. I put a Lyman ramp front sight on it an MMC low-profile rear sight. I found a set of Hogue wrap-arounds that fit with a little modification and then parkerized the ugly beast. It is one wicked looking snubby, dude.
I've got an old raggedy looking S&W 1917 that I use for home defense. If I am forced to shoot someone (the LEO's will surely take it), it is no big loss if I can't get it back. An accurate gun with light recoil that will do the job. I don't find the recoil of a .357 objectionable, but for those that do, either go to 110-125 gr. JHP's, or +P.38's. A good hit where the slug is supposed to go does far more good than a marginal hit with .44 mag. Not to insult anyone, but a LRN .44 Spl. is no panty waist, needs no upgrade, and has a reputation as a good manstopper. Never use reloads as defensive loads! The prosecutor, and the wrongful death attorney will crucify you for this and the idiot juries seem to go along with anything nowadays. Use factory "Defensive" loads widely sold in gunshops. jim
jim, why is this? i really don't know much about reloading. but does it have to do with a "deadlier load" that if not used the perp. could have been stoped but not killed. since you "messed" with load he is now dead and unable to stand trial and his family is now suing you?
It is all PC crap, but unfortunately it seems to carry a lot of weight in court. In different calibers, I have carried mainstream hollow points that are popular with law enforcement. Hydra-Shok, Ranger, Gold Dots, etc. If it is good enough for them (and safe enough for them) then why not the general population?
jim not trying to offend you here but all of that is going to come down to where you live , the local laws and attitude of the fools you have to deal with . After the VA shooting I saw some retard official make the statement that Hollow points were made for killing . For those that don't know hollow points were designed to 1) stay in the body of the per 2) reduce ricochets vs a round nosed profile projectile . If you shoot some one in your home and they find your reloading bench they may assume it is a reload then again perhaps not . Do you really think they are going to collect up all your powder , bullets and brass and then go to the trouble to contacting the manufacture to get samples of all the factory loads of various lots over the years ? I have old empty boxes I bought factory loads in over ten years ago sitting among my reloading stuff . Older ammo was often loaded hotter than todays stuff and I have old magazines with chronographed reports to prove it , that combined with the fact that I never exceed maximum loadings from a manual and I would have no problem taking the stand and defending my reloads for defense . The handloaded rounds that I suggest Blackjack use are not even as hot as most standard loads a 125gr hollow point at 1300 fps is the mildest of magnum loads you can get as most run 1,400-1,600 fps even out of a 4 inch barrel . Besides if one were to load Winchester Bullets in Winchester brass and use Winchester Powder and primers I think it would be a hard road to prove they weren't factory loads to 12 people who probably don't know anything about guns to begin with .
andy Yes, that is about the problem, and just one more thing you'd be required to battle in court. I too feel that this PC attitude of prosecutors is bs, but no one in public office is interested in my opinion. I carry only factory loads or store-bought remanufactured ammo for that reason. All the highperformance ammo is great, and all you have to say about them in court is "Well, I went up to this cop on the street and asked him what I should carry, he told me, so I went out and bought it. Some of the Winchester loads are marked "Defensive" on the box for this very reason. I've reloaded for years, and have no problem spotting reloads whenever I see them. One guy "claimed" what I was looking at were his reloads, and to me they looked just like factory, and I think they were, but wasn't going to call him a liar. That was my single instance when there could be any doubt of origin. You guys are 100% right in what you say, I just try to keep things simple for myself whenever possible. Cowboy What did it cost you to do that mod on the Colt? jim
I'm kind of late getting into this, but I'll see if I can muddy the waters some more. First......there is no magic bullet. Only guarantee is bullet placement. And even then, you can add a varity of variables into the equation. If you prefer the 38, then buy yourself either Remington Golden Sabers or Speer Gold Dots. Those bullets, loaded in 9mm have proved to be nearly 100% fatal. If you are considering a 45acp in a wheelgun, then go for an S&W Model 25. With rare exceptions, they come only in 45acp. And having shot them and shot against them in timed shoots, the full moon clip they use reloads faster then any conventional speedloader. Dump the used one, drop in a fresh one. Ammo is stable within the clips. Wham, Bam, Thank ya Ma'am. Another consideration is that both 38 and 45acp is very common. But I know of only one place within the Tulsa area (where I'm at) that carries 44Spec. And then not very much of it. Never limit yourself with availability of ammo. I could go on and on, but all you need is the basics here. I have a Model 60, 38Spec, that I have complete faith in for self-defense. But like any survival situation, the first, most important aspect is confidence in yourself and your abilities. Anyway, John Lennon was nothing more then a drugged out musician. And the drugs in his system probably allowed him to live for those extra minutes it too him to bleed out. I know of one drugged out Marine that only survived to stand court martial (in a wheel chair), because the Doc's said his body was so loaded with drugs, it was not aware it was supposed to be dead. I wish I had double tapped him now.
I have a pretty well equipped gun-smithing shop with a unimat lathe, a small milling machine, a surface grinder, barrel vises, parking and bluing tanks, a sand-blasting cabinet, and a host of wood-working stuff, so if you don't count the cost of all that and realize that my time spent puttering with my toys is quality time and doesn't keep a clock, then I guess it was pretty much free except for the $35.00 I paid for the pistol at a yard sale. I had the sights and grips left from other projects.
