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a crazy idea to bounce off of you here on this board

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by hank2222, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    ok everyone here has a crazy idea for there cabin here is my idea and i got from something Bruce said to me about solar numbers post ..

    take some 3.inch sized clear pvc pipes and put them togerther with a water inlet and outlet to allow the water to be pump into them with a hand pump system then let them get water hot and pump the water into a cabin water heater tank that will keep the water warm to use as need ..

    i have the room for a small 10.gallon hot water tank and i can run a extra line out to the solar water stand without to much of a problem for me ..

    this is done right at sunset in the summer time or about 4.pm in the winter time to get the water when it has been heated up to the max temp dureing those times of the year ..

    in summer time it put out at let say lunch time or in the spring at 8.am or fall at 7.am and collect the water dureing diff time frames dureing the days to have hot water ..

    the whole is is not to have to use anything other than handpower to get the water into the tank for use at a later time ..

    the hot water tank is triple wraped up to make sure the water stay at heated temp for along time frame intill it needed ..

    the unit is drained off water by closeing the one valve unit and opening the exit valve and pumping the hot water into the hot water tank set up to keep it warm intill it need

    the two end unit where the water comes in and out of is design to be a quick connection type unit with useing standard water hose unit screw on connection unit ..

    the unit hooked up with a simple twist and turn connection unit and then open the valve and pumped water into the unit to let the sun heat the water up for use later that night ..

    the hose is put back into there little opening in the ground and covered up by a piece of steel or something else to hide them from the public eye

    the stand is design to get the most out of sunlight to heat the water up to make temp ..

    the stand is made out pvc pipe to cut down on wieght issuse ..

    my unit design is 6.ft tall-x-2.ft wide-x-6.inchs round with with 2.inch round pvc pipes to allow the water to passage through into the units then out to the quick connections on the each side one for water comeing into the unit and one for water going out to the hot water heater in the cabin

    in the morning you take the unit out to the stand and connect it to the hose and then open a valve and pump water into it and let it sit all day in the sun to heat the water up

    so what do you think of the idea about a protable solar hot water heater for your cabin ..

    here is a couple of pictures of the idea the first picture is the one i learning toward ..the second picture would be design to hook up to the well then have water pumped into the unit then after heating the water the second hose is attached to pump the water into the hot water tank for use at a later time..
    solar-hot-water-heater1. Solar%20Hot%20water.
    BTPost likes this.
  2. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    part two of the crazy idea

    i know there are going to be days i can not use it because cold weather or something else has happen to not be put out ..but it can be used in a way where it not snowing or the cold weather temp snap has gone and past and it a normal winter time day ..


    we have guest in the area and it not reasonable to put out the system ..
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Nice thing to use for a Concept Test, to see if it is a viable idea. Nothing like getting good Field Data, to prove a Concept. Please let us know how that works out for you. I am interested.
    hank2222 likes this.
  4. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    question n1

    useing the wieght of the water inside the tubes to be allowed to drain without useing a pump would that be enough to get out all the water without useing some type of air flushing system

    question n2

    if it can come saight from the well water system would be easlyer to use a inline water filter to filter the water before useing it on a person ..

    question n3.

    if useing the air flushing system is a hand pump or a small 12.volt power bicycle pump would it be enough to flush the water down into the tank

    question n4

    how much pressure can this tube take before starting to crack and leak water out

    question n5

    if pumping saight the water saight from the well set up where to mount the inline filtering system to make sure the water is filtered before going into the tank for use

    question n6

    the stand should it mount in a permart location or semi moveable to catch the sun rays to heat the water as it need

    question n7

    frost line and the plex pipeing that is flexable type ..the idea was to lay it down in a bed of gravel then cover it up with the pea gravel then dirt on top of the gravel

    the plex pipe is 2.inchs round as long as i need it to the hole in the cabin hole in the wall

    as soon as i think of some more question i post them
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    n1. Yes, as long as there are NO high spots in the tubing run. You want to make SURE, that there is a slight downgrade on ALL tubing in the system.

    n2. No opinion

    n3. Bicycle Pump doesn't really allow for enough volume/time to do a good job. 12Vdc pump should be sufficient. If you design the piping correct, gravity should do the whole JOB.

    n4. OEM should have a Burst Rating for the tubing. but without any substantial pressure, you should be fine.

    n5. Filters should be on the Pressure side of any Pump. They tend to require more pressure, than gravity, as they become clogged with particulates, toward their changeout time.

    n6. No opinion

    n7. You can put the PEX inside Insulated Foam PipeWrap, for added protection if you want.

    My Opinions..... YMMV......
    check with Colt Carbine.... He is the Plumber Expert on Water Systems....
  6. Huntinbull

    Huntinbull Monkey+

    I personally think Black pipe (pvc or similar potable water quality) would heat faster/better than clear.

    Is the black plastic (pvc i am assuming) pipe used for drain lines from tubs etc. viable for using for water which may be ingested?
    hank2222 likes this.
  7. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    We used a frame made of 1 x 12 white pine, made "racks" (with c shaped cutouts to nest the pipes) for the abs pipes (4 ' x 3") and then we lined the bottom with aluminum foil.....The top was covered in triple strength glass.
    It got too hot and we were concerned about melting the abs and connections. The whole thing was pretty awkward to move around, (2 units- 2 foot x 4 foot) but we put it on top of a mobile home up north and had it "run" via gravity feed to a hot water tank (insulated). We used a 12 volt dc 'on-demand' pump system. Trouble was we ended up disconnecting it all until we made a 'mixer' (or something of that nature)to add cold water or you get scalded from the very hot water coming directly from the source. When you open the spigot/tap the pump sense the drop in pressure and feeds fresh/cold water up to the solar system. From there it flows thru the hot water heater and into the hot water pipes inside.
    Now, We will be adding a new pump for just cold water, to be able to control the temperature. It gets really hot!
    hank2222 likes this.
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    In trying to decide what tubing to use, you want to look at, the the Wall Thickness, vs the Maximum System Water Pressure, in the design stage. Wall thickness will determine the transfer coefficient of the BTUs from the Photons striking the surface of the tubing, to the water in the tubes. The thinner the better. Maximum System Water Pressure will determine minimum Wall thickness, using OEM Burst Pressure Ratings, for the tubing. Dark colored tubing is better and sucking Photons than clear or light colored tubing.
    ...... YMMV....
    hank2222 and dragonfly like this.
  9. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    It's like touching a car in Phoenix in the summer! The darker the color, the higher the heat absorption! That's why I was told that car radiators are painted black! ( chrome is prettier until they get fingerprints though!)
    I spent one summer working at a plating and anodizing place here in Phoenix....In the summer sun, we quickly discovered which metals got the hottest the quickest!
    hank2222 likes this.
  10. Huntinbull

    Huntinbull Monkey+

    I think that the idea of two panels about 2x4 ft is a great idea for mobility. Maybe running some cold water into the unit while draining it into the water heater/storage device. Might this not cool it off enough to use for a shower/bath? While also adding some pressure for emptying / filling? You could also begin emptying the tubes and once it was empty run cold water until the drain tube is cool to the touch before closing the drain? This might ensure a little cold water in the storage tank?
    hank2222 likes this.
  11. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Thermovection is a term meaning that hot liquids/air rise. So, cold water in at bottom gets forced out as temps rise. Enclosing your "radiator" in an insulated duo paned "cabinet" will greatly increase it's efficiency. A bud built one w/o planning for thermovection, put in a pump, and the system greatly overheated when the pump failed. If he had put in a simple relief valve he would have saved his system. It was about a 3'X6' four inch deep box painted black with black tubing, elbows, and lots of clamps. Great idea but not very cost effective. IMO, a simple series of overlapping loops using 100' of black 3/4" plastic pipe enclosed in a well insulated cabinet would produce temps of well over 100*. Even in the winter the sun would produce nearly the same amount of usable heat to the cabinet.
    chelloveck and hank2222 like this.
  12. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    when i was buying the stuff to make up the model i was trying to build the gentlemen said to use plex tubeing and do the same thing and it will come out the same and be alot cheaper in the long run ..
  13. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Here is something you may want to take a look at more closely. The "made" unit is very pricy, but you should be able to make this fairly easy. I was thinking of copper pipe, but black abs pipe should work almost as well. It could easily be made into a hot water heater as well. Best of both worlds.

    hank2222 likes this.
  14. thebastidge

    thebastidge Monkey+

    Your car radiator's colour has nothing to do with heat absorption. First of all, the point of a radiator is not to absorb heat, it is to 'radiate' it.

    That is, using a lot of surface area, to emit the heat by radiating infrared radiation (least effective) and by using conduction (air moving past it while the car moves or a fan blows air past it) or in other radiator setups like old apartment buildings, conduction/convection as air being heated by conduction rises and is displaced by cooler air.

    Secondly, the effect of darker colours absorbing more heat is purely from electromagnetic radiation in the frequencies we call "light". From infrared to ultraviolet. Your car radiator gets hot from water being circulated through the engine (conduction), not from being in the sun.

    A car radiator would be very inefficient in a solar heating setup, because the majority of the surface area is oriented front-to-back, where it cannot be presented directly to the sun. It is designed to give up heat to air moving past it, not to gain heat in the water inside it.
  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It's not such a crazy idea

    The basic concept seems sound, but as -06 pointed out, enclosing the solar collectors in a cabinet, painting the piping black for maximum heat absorbtion, and using reflecting surfaces to reflect maximum heat onto the surface of the tubing, will add considerably to the efficiency of the system. You may also consider an insulated cover to place over the transparent window of the cabinet: this will save heat loss by radiation, conduction and convection from the solar collector at night.

    Using an in-line water filter before the water enters the solar collecting system would be very wise. It will help to minimise blockages in the system, and reduce maintenace problems. Designing the system so that water can be flushed through it without entering the domestic plumbing would be a good idea, as would some system for reaming out the pipes in the event of a blockage.

    Edit: Lagging supply pipes to, and return pipes from domestic supply plumbing will help reduce heat loss from the system, which should increase system efficiency and ensure that your supply stays hotter longer when the system isn't making much solar gain.
    hank2222 and beast like this.
  16. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    Dan Rojas makes some pretty cool solar videos and puts them up on YT. His channel is YouTube - ‪Chaîne de GREENPOWERSCIENCE‬&rlm;

    He put up a video awhile back where he used a giant coil of black 1" poly pipe and coiled it and secured it to his roof. That then fed into his water heater so the water entering was warmer than ground water. Looked like an excellent way to preheat. He is in southern CA tough so he sees quite a bit of sun throughout the year.

    He puts up some interesting videos. Check him out.

    hank2222 likes this.
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