Buy Your Surplus, WW-II Era 1911 from the Government!

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by stg58, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I posted a while back on this and am totally stunned that it looks like it is going to happen:)
    Nothing on the CMP site yet but this could very nice.
    Civilian Marksmanship Program |


    Buy Your Surplus, WW-II Era 1911 from the Government! – GunsAmerica Digest

    Before I get to those questions, let’s back up for a moment and revisit how we got here. At the end of last month, president Obama signed an omnibus bill known as the National Defense Authorization Act, which among other things contained a provision to allow the government to relinquish the Army’s stockpile of surplus M1911 and M1911A1 pistols to the Civilian Marksmanship Program, so that they can be sold to the general public.
    If you’re not familiar with the Civilian Marksmanship Program, it’s a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training, and competitions. It’s a quasi-government, non-profit agency.

    For our intents and purposes, the CMP is the intermediary that transfers the Army’s 1911s to us. If you haven’t read our series “Garands from the Government,” now would be the time. Our fearless leader Paul Helinski goes step-by-step through the process, detailing how he purchased surplus military M1 Garands through the CMP. In fact, some of what he wrote regarding getting your ducks in a row to purchase a firearm from the CMP, I’ve reposted below. But I highly recommend you check out that series.

    It should also be noted that Rep. Mike Rogers’ (R-Alabama) is largely responsible for adding the provision to sell the 1911s to the NDAA.

    “As a gun owner and strong believer in the Second Amendment, my proposal is a commonsense approach to eliminating an unnecessary cost to the Federal government while allowing the very capable CMP to handle the sale of these vintage firearms that otherwise would just sit in storage,” said Rogers back in August, who pointed out what it cost taxpayer’s to store the 1911s: $2 per gun, per year. Roughly speaking, $200,000 each year.
    Marck, Ganado and Tully Mars like this.
  2. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    The problem is the gov't will only sell so many 1911s a year, special/VG or better/unusual 1911s will be held back and sold at collector's prices (just look at the Garands/03s/etc.). It isn't a wholesale down load of military 1911s coming on the market, just a few at a time. Probably the big collectors had a cow at the thought of 200,000 1911s hitting the market at once and wiping out their profits (look at the full-auto crowd when it comes up to relax/remove the unConstitutional laws, they just have sheet fits!) and pushed through the "hand full a year" plan and then are going there to cherry pick before anyone else is allowed in.
  3. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    I will have to state that my first active duty tour was from '84-'88, which was the transition time from when the US armed services dumped the 1911A1 and adopted the M9.

    I was able to handle and look at quite a few of the 1911A1's that were issued to various officers and some enlisted personnel. Unlike the M1 Garand that saw less than two decades of service, the 1911A1 saw close to 50 years, and from a majority of the service issue 1911A1's that I handled, you could tell that most of them were definitely showing their age. All of them had been refinished at least once. There will be very few available that will be in unissued NIB condition. Hopefully they will have a very attractive price, but, I will not pay any more than what I could buy a great quality 1911A1 made by almost all the major arms manufactures today.
    Marck, Tully Mars and stg58 like this.
  4. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    As the ramp was designed for hard ball; the weakness of the issue 1911-A1 is hollow point ammunition. Not all 1911-A1s function reliably with JHP. Some do and some don't, YMMV. However, lacking a HP has not limited the effectiveness of .45 ACP.

    As the 1911 was replaced by the 1911-A1 during the early 1920s; they must have found some old stock. :)
    Marck likes this.
  5. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    It is my understanding that both models will be sold and I heard that around 10k were to be released in the first batch. We'll have to wait and see.
    I will buy all I can get if/when. Have heard of an opening price between $450-500.00 per. Again all is hearsay until it happens.
    I want one of each for the collection, and a few more to do custom work on, so here's ta hoping!
    stg58 likes this.
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Don't forget mags --. Any word on them?
  7. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    No word on mags but I like CMC Mags anyway.

    I would expect pricing to be around $1000 each with any collectable prime examples if any are left to be on the CMP auction site.

    Chip McCormick Custom, LLC™
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
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  8. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Second to Chip McCormick mags! BEST mags I have used and I own/used most of them. EASILY the BEST mag for the buck!
    Tully Mars likes this.
  9. toydoc

    toydoc Monkey+++

    some people use Chip McCormick springs and followers in almost any old mag and they work very well.
    Tully Mars likes this.
  10. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    I prefer the Wilson Combat mags for the 1911s, but to each their own..
    It would be nice if they included a couple OE mags, just for authenticity's sake...
    Tully Mars likes this.
  11. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    A guesstimate on pricing.
    How much will CMP 1911 Pistols Cost? - The Firearm Blog
    I would expect CMP 1911 pistols to be about 30-50% less than the current market price. The market price for WWII M1911 pistols is about $1000 – $4000+. $2000 seems to be the going price for Service Grade pistols.

    Based on the market prices, the CMP’s pricing history and the the increase of supply that these pistols will bring to the market, my guesstimate pricing for CMP 1911 pistols are:

    Grade Price
    CMP Rack Grade 1911 Price – *
    CMP Field Grade 1911 Price $750
    CMP Service Grade 1911 Price $850
    CMP Special Grade 1911 Price $1100
    Other ** $1800 +
    * I do not expect there to be rack grade pistols for sale initially.
    ** Depending on what is in the Army inventory, there could be a range of rare pistols in their own categories, but not rare enough to go to auction.

    I hope the prices will be lower than my estimates. I know many of you are hoping for $500 1911 pistols but I do not realistically expect this to happen. Modern 1911 pistols are popular enough in their own right without the added attraction of being military surplus.
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  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I doubt anyone will see a WWII 1911-A1 for $500. Everyone knows what they are worth and it sure isn't $500.
    Marck likes this.
  13. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Well Stg58 might well be right about prices. I HOPE lower, but expect higher. I for one will not be getting one at those prices as I like to shoot my guns (just can't enough unfortunately, including my 1914 1911). A good friend at the Rock Island Arsenal (the real one) was head armorer and I got a tour of the place behind the scenes that few people who don't work there get. AMAZING what they have behind the scenes! When ever I talk about it some troll/dolt calls me a liar, "the US never used P-35 (Hi-Power) pistols!" (True, and they never used Russian tanks and yet there is Russian, German and who knows what all tanks out on the grounds) when I talked about the crates of (usually broken) P-35 pistols they had. Or the crates of German rifles and machineguns, etc. You name it, it was there.

    As Route said, the pistols will be BEAT! My friend said that he regularly rebuilt frames that went over a million rounds or more. Different slides, barrels, etc., over and over and over, all on that 1920-1930-1940 frame, in a never ending rebuild. There may well be a few mint or near mint 1911s, but expect "beat to snot" to be the norm. The WWII slides suck, very soft (induction heat treated on the bolt face and lugs to save time) as they were expected to be given to newly minted officers with a life expectancy of about two months or less. If you are looking for a "using gun" get one of the current copies, for collecting, get the best you can.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  14. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    If they follow the ways of the Garands that went on sale pre 2000, then you will see them below the current WWll 1911s held in the civilian market. You will also (if they follow the Garands sales) see the current WWll 1911s held in the civilian market drop in price.

    Then a slow rise in prices as we see with present Garands.

    Supply and demand and we are in a recession at this time.

    So it will depend on sales and marketing.

    Figure a feeding frenzy at first.
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  15. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    As I feared 1911's starting at $1000 from the CMP .
    The holy grail left are welded M-14's which will never see the light of day and the 1911's so the 1911's will sell very well.

    An Update on CMP 1911 Prices and Grades from CMP Chief Operating Officer Mark Johnson -

    The pricing is expected to start at about $1,000 per pistol with the better grades “priced accordingly.”
    The pricing is expected to start at about $1,000 per pistol with the better grades “priced accordingly.”
    Johnson said:

    They have no idea on the condition of the pistols in inventory. But, based on their experience with M1 Garand the CMP expects there will be Rack Grade, Field Grade, Service Grade, and Collector Grade pistols available and that he expects 10% to be in the worst condition, 10% to be in the best condition, and the rest somewhere in the middle. (He later added that the CMP will thoroughly inspect, repair, and test fire all pistols prior to sale).

    The pricing is expected to start at about $1,000 per pistol with the better grades “priced accordingly.”
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    As of today, from the CMP website -

    10/15/16 An update on the 1911’s…
    The CMP is NOT authorized to receive or disburse the 1911s at this point. We have not yet received the approval required from the Secretary of the Army by the legislation.
  17. DarkLight

    DarkLight I self identify as a Blackhawk Attack Helicopter! Site Supporter

    They now have to be an FFL since FFL is required for handguns that are not considered C&R. Don't know how that process is going. Too bad if that's the problem. Wasn't an issue in the past for the rifles.
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