Civics Fortunately the USA has the First Amendment, but in Ireland....

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by chelloveck, Oct 1, 2018.


  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Fortunately the USA has the First Amendment, but in Ireland....They are having a referendum later this month, to disempower the government from using blasphemy laws to prosecute individuals for treating religious beliefs with less deference and respect than some religious adherents might think ought be the case.

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    The Campaign to Overturn Ireland’s Blasphemy Law on Oct. 26 Has Begun

    C'mon Ireland.....stop providing theocratic regimes with the illusory figleaf of legitimacy that a democracy with blasphemy laws provides for the persecution of heretics, infidels, defectors and blasphemers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  2. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    The difference between a Natural Right and a State granted privilege in a nutshell. I hope that the Ireland Referendum is successful.

    Hopefully it's a trend of increased civil rights, especially in the Islamic world. :

    " ... In Pakistan Blasphemy carries death penalty under Section 295C, Pakistan Penal Code. It
    reads as under: “Section 295C. Use of derogatory remarks etc. in respect of the Holy Prophet: Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation, or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life and shall also be liable to fine.” ... "
    https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/Punishment-of-blasphemy.pdf
     
  3. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I aim to misbehave!
     
  4. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Wasn't this (below) the image that caused a bounty on the head of Salman Rushdie?

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  5. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    No....it was writing and publishing the novel, 'The Satanic Verses'.

    The Satanic Verses - Wikipedia

    Apparently the Fatwa on his life has been lifted, but that doesn't mean that some nutbag Islamic extremist(s) won't take it into their head(s) to put an end to Rushdie's life for his alleged blasphemy.

    The novel is available for free download in .pdf format from Archive Org.
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    Salman Rushdie The Satanic Verses : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    The cartoon of Mahomed with a bomb turban is by Jyllands-Posten, a Danish Cartoonist. Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  6. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Chelloveck,finally America is great again with Trump as President.
     
  7. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    That's right. I remember now. They put the bounty on him due to that. It was a different story, concerning the cartoon that pissed 'em off. Thin skinned goat f*#kers.
     
  8. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Chelloveck,the United States of America was settled by freedom loving patriotic hard working people from all over. Australia was settled by British convicts that been sent to there by the courts .So it seems that might be part of your trouble today. You have never had the freedom that our country has provided.
     
    BenP, Gator 45/70 and Sapper John like this.
  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I wasn't aware that Donald the Magnificent had a hand in drafting the First Amendment....but he does seem to be enthusiastically trying to dismantle it.
     
  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Ah, om11, I like the way you seem to take some pleasure in taking cheap shots at me (and my country), using the usual silly tropes about Australia and its convict past, and such. You might have remarked on the Irish blasphemy laws referendum, or on the USA's first amendment, but no...today is Aussie convict day. :ROFLMAO:

    The USA was settled by a variety of peoples...that much is true...which also included convicts transported by Britain to their American colonies...so, its not as if America was much different to some of the British colonies settled in the Antipodes.

    There is no excuse for being (apparently) ignorant of your own country's illustrious history om11....of course it would be entirely churlish of me to suggest that all American colonists were lazy, layabout convicts....they had a tea party to organise! :LOL:

    You are factually incorrect....Australia, was already a settled continent, when it became a federated sovereign state in 1901, with the vast majority of the population being free citizens at that time. Transportation of convicts to Britain's colonies in the Antipodes finished in 1868, so, when Australia came into being, virtually all of the transported convicts would either have died ( mostly through old age as well as other causes), or had become emancipated. The British colonies of New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania, Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia, were mostly settled by free settlers, with South Australia being settled entirely by free settlers.

    ????

    I'm just pleased, and eternally grateful that America has not provided Australia with the same kind of freedom that it provided to Iraq courtesy of GW1 and GW2...

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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  11. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    hmmmm.... thing is we don't have a Democracy.... never did... so?
     
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  12. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Ain't it amazing how so many get that wrong?

    "... and to the Republic, for which it stands..."

    Now, to Mr. chelloveck, I think Botany Bay are the two words you need, regarding the first "settlers" in Oz. :D
     
  13. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Chelloveck,me take cheap shots at your country? You have been doing the same to my country,so don’t get your feelings hurt. Were did your grandparents come from? Mine fought for their freedom,did yours.
    Have a good day.
     
  14. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Well, I can't say for ol' chello or his descendants. But, during a trip to Oz way back in 2006, I was asked twice if I had a criminal record. The agent even circled the question (prior to asking a second time) I had previously answered "no" to, on the entry document. I was starting to ask if that were still compulsory for entering the country. He didn't appear to have much of a sense of humor. So, I decided against that. :ROFLMAO: :D :ROFLMAO:
     
    oldawg likes this.
  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I know that my reply is straying away from my own thread's topic, but I am glad that I posted it with a civics tag in a Freedom and Liberty forum, as some here seem to not understand clearly the nature of their own nation's government. That seems evident from some responses to a meme posted earlier in this thread...

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    explaining a meme is a bit like explaining a joke....

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    the meme may die in the process....but it may be worth it if some misunderstandings are cleared up. (It's what Captains Didactic do).

    The meme satirises the propensity for America to justify (in part) its invading (or generally just bombing the sh1t out of) other countries in an effort to bring democracy to their citizens.

    This is a more recent iteration of that theme....

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    Emphasis mine.

    That exporting American style democracy to asian, middle eastern, and south american countries has been spectacularly unsuccessful for the exporters, and spectacularly destructive and painful for its recipients ought be good cause to be skeptical about. and fearful of America's 'gifts' of 'democracy'.

    In the sense that the USA is not a 'direct democracy' Direct democracy - Wikipedia (like Ancient Athens and modern Switzerland), you are technically correct....however, you do not seem to comprehend that the USA is a democratic republic....Democratic republic - Wikipedia.....arguably the USA could also be described as a liberal democracy Liberal democracy - Wikipedia with a republic form of government.

    I didn't get it wrong....

    1. The Republic is the structural form of US government, However, the Republic was founded, and is based on democratic principles...in that sense, the Republic is also a democracy.....The Republic and the democratic principles that it is founded upon are not separate and mutually exclusive.

    2. Don't chide me for om11's lack of precision....they are the words that om11 needed. :LOL:

    3. yep, that :ROFLMAO: emoji was a measure of how hurt my feelings were. I don't object so much about you taking cheap shots at me or my country, as to the rather predictable and hackneyed way you (and some others) go about it....you are mistaken if I am particularly sensitive to the historical fact that convict transportation was as much a part of my nation's heritage, as is the case of your own nation's convict heritage; Colonies on both continents were both used as dumping grounds for political prisoners and criminal riffraff. A bit of originality and creativity would be ever so much more appreciated than the boring 'colonial settlers were convicts' trope. I just ask that my opponents arm themselves with rapiers, rather than the bludgeons of dullards...it makes for a much more interesting discussion.

    4. Where my grandparents (and other forebears) came from are irrelevant to the OP, and even the meme in post #10. I have to ask the question...Were your grandparents not free before they "fought for their freedom"? Were they enslaved? Did they live in a dictatorship? If so, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing their story. Neither you nor I get to claim special or superior kudos over the other, simply based on what our forebears did...and neither of us gets to impose upon or accept shame from the other, based on what our forebears may have failed to do in the past...You and I are measured and compared by what we have done, or failed to do....For that reason, it worries me not that transported convicts back in the day are a part of Australia's heritage.

    As you have raised the question of grandparents, my maternal grandfather was a fighter....he fought for a living as a successful professional heavyweight boxer. My paternal grandfather fought for his country's independence, against the Germans and the Soviet Russians at the end of WW1. He died in a soviet gulag in the 1960's. My grandmothers both worked in manufacturing, whilst also caring for their families under dire circumstances during the Great Depression, and WW2. My maternal grandmother (with my dad and his sister) survived the Allied bombing of Dresden in 1945. Did my grandparents do great things? Surviving, and raising a family that has grown, and added a swag of law abiding, productive citizens to post war Australian society is achievement enough. My family are a family of survivors, which is one of my inspirations for prepping.

    As you haven't explained in what ways your grandparents 'fought' for their freedom, there is nothing that can sensibly be said about them.

    5. If you genuinely meant what you said, in signing off, I'd be genuinely impressed, but it is, what it is...a sour upload_2018-10-4_14-7-17. Parthian shot. [nono]

    Probably a sensible course of action, Paul...Australian customs, immigration and border security officials probably do have a sense of humour, just that they take their work seriously...sometimes jokey familiarity is a red flag that the subject may be concealing something....is it really worth the rubber gloves treatment for the sake of a lame joke? :rolleyes: i didn't think so. ;)

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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  16. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Oh, they gave me the rubber gloves treatment anyway. Honestly, I was more concerned about the guy sending me to the ticket line to purchase an outbound ticket to another country.

    Upon returning to my own homeland, I was as respectful as I was to those in yours. However, after they decided to put me in the same boat with other "middle aged travelers to SEA", I decided to give them more shit than they were giving me. And, I am very proud to say, I pissed them off beyond belief. I wish I had of videoed the event. :D :D
     
  17. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Such are the lives of immigration, customs and border collection...if Sydney was your transit location, and had you have been detained...the Villawood detention centre is very convenient to get to. Send me a PM and I'll pay you a social call, if permitted. I rarely find a captive audience. ;) I'll bake you a cake with a file in it....it'll be a b@st@rd....the file that is. :D
     
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  18. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    we haven't enforced it (you can't enforce parts of a right) so we do not have it.
     
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