Fukashima Update! "Nothing to see here, move along!"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gopherman, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    It was not personal! Rather a blanket question with an emotional attachment. They were misled by TEPCO, an incompetent entity to begin with!
    In this situation I am trying to put myself in the horrific circumstance that these poor young kids find themselves, avg. age 19, finding out they may be dead in 5-10 years.
    Who in their right mind would go swimming in the water, unless they were led to believe it was safe. Who would've guessed their bosses would not have thoroughly checked this out before allowing them to do it?
    Most people who drink the water don't give it a second thought,(unless your an awake SM) and it stands to reason that the 5,000or so sailors never even thought about it.
    Brokor likes this.
  2. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Remember VIETNAM?
    NotSoSneaky, Brokor and Gopherman like this.
  3. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    PS. Don't ever think I'm a Kumbaya Liberal!biglaff
    You would have to go to another Solar System to find someone farther to the right!
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  4. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    Remember Erin Brochovich (I think that's how it's spelled) yep, Just checked!
    I use this example here to illestrate the fact if you have enough influence (Money)
    you can pretty much get away with anything!
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
    NotSoSneaky likes this.
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    You can bet your bippy the crew (or at least the responsible division) thought about it. Water consumed shipboard is generated on board by distillation and filtering. You can bet there were no particulates carried over into the potable water tanks. (Without knowing more about the ship system, I can't say that gasses aren't removed. It's an odds on bet that concentrations would be non-detectable past the stills. I can say with certainty that the potable water tanks are not placed in service without sampling.) Swimming? Well, if there was a swim call, maybe. Possibly also if the fire and flushing system was used to hose anything down, that would (normally) be sea water, and would be done in abc gear.

    To me, there are no credible stories about this business on the carrier.
    HK_User likes this.
  6. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    I don't understand what you mean by credible stories? By whom, the Crew or the Command structure?
    These people are pretty sick, and that much is confirmed by all account's.
  7. fmhuff

    fmhuff Monkey+++

    Radioactive material released into the environment is not a good thing. Whether it occurs naturally as in Radon gas, etc. or man made releases into the environment it can have dire consequences.

    It's the long half life and the sometimes sketchy safety measures resulting in devastating leaks that has me concerned.

    In the sixties and seventies it was anti nuclear with slogans like split wood and not atoms. Then the EPA under liberal control said wood was not good and nuclear power was a major piece of our energy salvation.

    Then Chernoble and Fukashima reminded us just how unsafe and devastating Nuclear power can be. Even the Hanford reservation along the Columbia river is leaking radioactive toxin through the aquifer polluting the river. The list is too long.

    Possibly most complaints about environmental damage have at least an element of truth. The issue I have is people are either in denial, ignore things they don't want to deal with, blow things all out of proportion or some would be messiah steps in going to save us all if we will give them money and power. Few really think generational or even care to.
    Gopherman likes this.
  8. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    just a little update from the most unlikely source The Main Stream Media;
    Cause of New Mexico nuclear waste accident remains a mystery - LA Times

    A 55-gallon drum of nuclear waste, buried in a salt shaft 2,150 feet under the New Mexico desert, violently erupted late on Feb. 14 and spewed mounds of radioactive white foam.
    The flowing mass, looking like whipped cream but laced with plutonium, went airborne, traveled up a ventilation duct to the surface and delivered low-level radiation doses to 21 workers.
    The accident contaminated the nation's only dump for nuclear weapons waste — previously a focus of pride for the Energy Department — and gave the nation's elite ranks of nuclear chemists a mystery they still cannot unravel.
    Six months after the accident, the exact chemical reaction that caused the drum to burst is still not understood. Indeed, the Energy Department has been unable to precisely identify the chemical composition of the waste in the drum, a serious error in a handling process that requires careful documentation and approval of every substance packaged for a nuclear dump.

    lRelated [​IMG]
    Nation Now
    Nuclear plants ill-prepared for worst-case scenarios, report say

    A preliminary Energy Department investigation found more than 30 safety lapses at the plant, including technical shortcomings and failures in the overall approach to safety. Only nine days before the radiation release, a giant salt-hauling truck caught fire underground and burned for hours before anybody discovered it.
    The report found that "degradation of key safety management programs and safety culture resulted in the release of radioactive material from the underground to the environment."
    The 15-year-old plant, operated by a partnership led by San Francisco-based URS Corp., "does not have an effective nuclear safety program," the investigation found.
    The accident raises tough questions about the Energy Department's ability to safely manage the nation's stockpiles of deadly nuclear waste, a job that is already decades behind schedule and facing serious technical challenges.
    "The accident was a horrific comedy of errors," said James Conca, a scientific advisor and expert on the WIPP. "This was the flagship of the Energy Department, the most successful program it had. The ramifications of this are going to be huge. Heads will roll."

    Complicated case of a leaky radioactive dump in New Mexico
    Ralph Vartabedian

    The eruption in February of a 55-gallon drum of nuclear waste buried deep in a salt shaft at the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant near Carlsbad, N.M., has left the facility closed for months and raised questions about the Department of Energy's ability to keep tabs on the content of nuclear waste...
    The eruption in February of a 55-gallon drum of nuclear waste buried deep in a salt shaft at the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant near Carlsbad, N.M., has left the facility closed for months and raised questions about the Department of Energy's ability to keep tabs on the content of nuclear waste... ( Ralph Vartabedian )

    There is no official estimate of the cost of the accident, but outside experts and a Times analysis indicate it could approach $1 billion, based on the WIPP's annual budget; the need to decontaminate the facility; upgrades to safety that officials already have identified; and delays over the next decade in the nuclear weapons cleanup program.

    The WIPP was designed to place waste from nuclear weapons production into ancient salt deposits, which would eventually collapse and embed the radioactivity for at least 10,000 years. The dump was dug much like a conventional salt mine, but with a maze of rooms for the waste. It handles low- and medium-level radioactive materials known as transuranic waste, the artificial elements — mainly plutonium — created in the production of nuclear weapons. Until the Valentine's Day disaster, it had been operating without significant problems for 15 years.

    The plant's ventilation and filtration system was supposed to have prevented any of the radioactive material from reaching the environment. But investigators discovered that the Energy Department never required the ventilation system to meet nuclear safety standards. When monitors detected radiation, dampers were supposed to route the ventilation air into filters to prevent any radioactivity from reaching the surface, but the dampers leaked and thousands of cubic feet of air bypassed filters.

    Luckily, the accident occurred when nobody was working in the mine itself. But the emergency response moved in slow motion.

    The first high-radiation alarm sounded at 11:14 p.m. When control room managers tried to find the responsible on-call radiation control expert, they couldn't find the person, according to the investigation report. By morning, workers were attempting to change filters. Not until 9:34 a.m. did managers order 150 or so workers on the surface of the site to move to a safe location, about 10 hours after the first alarm sounded. It took 13 hours for managers to staff an emergency operation center.

    In Carlsbad, the closest city to the WIPP, officials have voiced support for the economically vital dump, but they also are worried about safety. When Energy Secretary Ernest J. Moniz went to Carlsbad this month, Jay Jenkins, president of Carlsbad National Bank, told him at a town hall meeting that he did not think the WIPP had adequate funding to ensure safety.
    Moniz acknowledged such concerns, promising to ensure the future safety of the plant.
    "You stick with us, and we're sticking with you," Moniz said.
  9. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    Just released new Data proving my Point!

    Fukushima radiation is affecting the health of the entire global ecosystem, scientist says
    Wednesday, August 27, 2014 by: L.J. Devon, Staff Writer
    Tags: Fukushima, radiation, global ecosystem
    When the Professor of Biological Sciences at the University of South Carolina took the microphone at the Foreign Correspondence Club in Japan, the global impact of Fukushima radiation became much clearer.

    Scientist Timothy A. Mousseau presented "Fukushima Catastrophe and its Effects on Wildlife,"before a room of press and correspondents, reporting the real-life damage that Fukushima fallout is having on the planet's ecosystem. He gave dire news to Japan and compared the damage done by Fukushima to that of Chernobyl.

    Twenty-two minutes into the speech, Mousseau spoke on how the radiation is killing off birds. "These next figures are really, really important, and this really was the motivation for speaking today," he said. "These are the results from four years of data, so starting July 2011, and we just did the last count last month here in Fukushima. What this graph shows very, very strikingly is that the total numbers of birds drops off with radiation in Fukushima in a very consistent pattern."

    Scientist reveals albino birds, mutant firebugs, and deformed pine trees derived from Fukushima radiation
    He pointed to the consistency of bird die-offs through the years, increasing over time. He showed how both the Chernobyl and Fukushima disasters showed these striking similarities. He rose even more alarm over radiation's "effects on species richness or biodiversity," stating that the effects "are even more striking, again, dropping off with increasing radiation." He talked about mutations in birds seen near Fukushima, mentioning the first swallow with patches of white feathers. "We've since been documenting in collaboration with the Wild Bird Society of Japan many more additional cases of these albinos." He talked about other biomarkers like Japanese cows with white spots on their rears. He showed pictures of birds with tumors, showing documentation of higher frequency of cataracts in humans and birds in areas with high radiation levels. Taking it a step further, he showed growth abnormalities in both firebugs and scotch pine trees.

    Mousseau showed that the effects of radiation from Fukushima are similar to that of Chernobyl, which exploded in Ukraine in 1986. "The point today is that as far as we can tell so far, there does not seem to be any dramatic difference between the effects of radiation in Chernobyl versus the effects of radiation in Fukushima. I think that is one of the take home messages," he said.

    Governments continue to censor the effects of Fukushima
    Mousseau detests the "official government reports" on Fukushima that downplay the impact that the radiation is having on Japan and the global ecosystem. "Contrary to governmental reports, there's now an abundance of information demonstrating consequences -- in other words, injury -- to individuals, populations, species, and ecosystem functions, stemming from the low dose radiation due to Chernobyl and Fukushima disasters," he stated.

    At 38 minutes into his speech, Mousseau told an Associated Press reporter that the effects are not local but are impacting the global ecosystem. "I think the only conclusion you can come to from the increasing body of evidence of Chernobyl is that all components of this ecosystem seem to be affected, from the bacteria in the soil, the fungi in the soil, all the way up to the top predators... they are all connected of course. As we pick away at the various components of the ecosystem, we have not found any particular components that don't seem to be affected in some way."

    Learn more: Fukushima radiation is affecting the health of the entire global ecosystem, scientist says - NaturalNews.com
    Brokor likes this.
  10. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    Nuclear industry hides from public huge radiation spikes at power plant reactors
    Wednesday, September 03, 2014 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer
    Tags: nuclear energy, radiation, power plant reactorsMost Viewed Articles
    9 anti-cancer foods you cannot ignore
    (NaturalNews) A nuclear insider has unleashed a bombshell about how radiation is actually released from nuclear power plant reactors -- and what he has to say might shock you. During a recent interview with Nuclear Hotseat host Libbe HaLevy, radiation biologist Dr. Ian Fairlie spoke about massive radiation spikes that occur when plant reactors are refueled, a common occurrence that the industry has long withheld from the public.

    From time to time, nuclear power plants require fresh infusions of fuel in order to keep operating. During this process, nuclear reactors are depressurized and their valves opened up, resulting in a release of gas containing some radioactive elements. The radioactive concentration of this release is said to be minimal, and plant operators are required to report it to regulators annually.

    When these reports are made, however, plant operators typically average out the total radioactive release across a 365-day period, which makes it appear small. In truth, the bulk of the release occurs in a very short period of time, often in just one afternoon, which means workers and those living downwind are sustaining high amounts of radioactive exposure.

    "Up until 2012, we didn't really know what happened with emissions from nuclear reactors," explained the independent nuclear consultant during the segment. "The only data that we had was annual data.... We didn't really know the time pattern -- now we do."

    Up to 75 percent of total radioactive release at nuclear power plants occurs in just one instance
    According to Dr. Fairlie, it is a common misconception that small bursts of radiation are released from nuclear power plants throughout the year, representing a minimal overall threat. Up to three-quarters, or 75 percent, of what is recorded annually as radiation releases occurs in just one large spike, typically during the refueling of reactors.

    "Instead of having even, little bits of emissions throughout the 365 days, you have one big, massive spike which happens over a day-and-a-half period," said Dr. Fairlie. "That's important... because it results in doses which are at least 20 times higher, maybe even as much as 100 times higher."

    This is significant because current regulatory guidelines do not require plant operators to disclose when and how often such releases occur, which creates an illusion of safety. If people knew that nuclear plants operated in this manner, they would likely avoid being near them on the few days when large radiation releases occur.

    "These spikes have been hidden from us ever since the beginning of the nuclear power program," explained Dr. Fairlie. "Nobody knew about them apart from people who work in the nuclear industry and they keep really quiet about it."

    Tell the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to protect public from radioactive releases
    Though the data from which Dr. Fairlie came to these conclusions was compiled in Germany, he says similar radioactive releases are likely occurring at U.S. reactors as well. He is now urging Americans to contact the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and demand that such information be disclosed in the interest of public health.

    "You have to go to your regulator and say, 'There's no reason why this is not occurring at U.S. reactors. These data are from [German] pressurized water reactors... so we know that it's very, very likely the same thing is happening with U.S. reactors," he added.

    Learn more: Nuclear industry hides from public huge radiation spikes at power plant reactors - NaturalNews.com
  11. jasonl6

    jasonl6 Monkey+++

    Had a friend ask me to fishing in Washington for Salmon this fall. Is it even worth fishing for them for food or will they be contaminated to the point of not safely eating? I've heard that most food from the pacific is sketchy at best. Any inside info on this from West coast peeps?

  12. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    That is total BS...[BSf]. There is NOTHING wrong, with the salmon in the Pacific Ocean. It has been tested ALL summer long, and the Testing Agencies have found NOTHING, in the way of Increased Radiation, from Salmon. The salmon that comes from West Coast Rivers, do NOT migrate as far as the Japanese Coast, and any Radiation being dumped at Fukushima, is so diluted, just 50 miles off that coast, as to make the readings very hard to even find, above BackGround levels. As one who actually LIVES, on the West Coast of Alaska, if there was any measurable change, in Radiation Levels of Salmon, I would have heard about it LONG AGO.....
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
    Yard Dart and NotSoSneaky like this.
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I was apprehensive for a time, and I still feel uneasy about eating tuna and I know I have cut back, but I guess I would feel comfortable eating salmon I caught off the west coast. There's just nothing that has proven unsafe levels of radiation in seafood caught off the west coast recently, and the only reports I have seen pertain to tuna off Japan coastlines and from that region.

    In the end, it's YOUR life and YOUR safety, so don't listen to me or anybody else, especially the government. I would keep checking peer reviews not funded by trusts and foundations who receive funding from major corporations, but mostly check the professional independent studies --and so far the results I have seen aren't alarming. Sometimes we do have to read the "findings" of popularly funded research, and that's because nobody else is doing it. These outlets are typically all funded by the same channels, and most of it really is innocuous and normal, with the occasional elitist hand in the cookie jar thing going on. Some people would laugh at the possibility of guilt by association, and never question the findings of scientists because they are perceived as being above temptation and beyond reproach. But, what they fail to see is the fact that these scientists sometimes require funding to survive and place food on the table. Even not-for-profit organizations must pay the salaries of its staff. Regardless, I will leave it up to you to decide.

    Is it all perfectly safe and normal? I seriously doubt it. Is the fish caught off the west coast safe to eat? I think it would be more safe to claim it is fine than to say it is going to kill you.

    For more: How Radioactive is Our Ocean?
    And a list of sources: In the News : Fukushima Radiation in the Pacific
  14. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    I get to see that flag Raised!!
    I thought for sure I would have seen it before now.
    I Feel Better Now!:D
  15. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    Fishing is always fun! No matter what! The guy from Monster Fish went fishing at the Chernobyl Power cooling lake! Talk about a set of balls!
    Go it's a blast! The more I see about the way this is all being covered up by all parties concerned, I personally wouldn't eat them!
    I don't agree about hearing it a long time ago, the Commercial Seafood industry is pretty powerful Lobby, and there's a lot of stuff going on these days we don't hear about. You can't just go shutting down an Trillion dollar industry, over a little radiation, you might scare people!
    Subway has been putting a poisonous Plasticizer in the bread to make it plyable and just recently stopped when it was discovered and Public pressure hit them between the eye's!
    Subway removes controversial chemical from bread – Eatocracy - CNN.com Blogs
    (Take a look at ingredients for some varieties of Subway's bread and you'll find a chemical that may seem unfamiliar and hard to pronounce: azodicarbonamide.
    to say this word, you would emphasize the syllable "bon" - but the attention the chemical has been getting has not been good. Besides bread, the chemical is also found in yoga mats and shoe soles to add elasticity.)

    Theirs a lot of stuff the the FDA allows to be in food that will probably kill you, YES, including Radiation in "Acceptable Amounts".
    That doesn't change the fact seals are tumorous, polar bears are tumorous, fish are washing up on the shores bleeding and ulcer-ed, massive amounts of birds are dying and washing up on the beaches (and yes its happening in Alaska too) and more all along the entire Left Coast, from Alaska to Mexico and over into the Hawaii'n Islands.
    There are very numerous articles about this in 2014, Google it, but some people will not believe anything until they glow, or them Government tells them about it in a study!
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  16. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Correct me if I'm wrong (by all means) but if the fish were effected by radiation, (residual) would it not be easily testable with a Geiger counter or dosimeter?
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    More than possibly not. The level and kind of contamination makes a huge difference.
    Gopherman and Brokor like this.
  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Why? It is the radiation that's dangerous , correct? not the damage the radiation did.
  19. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Radiation comes essentially in two flavors, (going a bit technical) photons and particulates. Photons are exactly like light except much more energetic and penetrating, meaning they can escape thru matter, the higher the energy the deeper they can penetrate. Particulates are of two flavors, alpha and beta. Both those will attenuate (give up their energy) in a very short distance. Alpha will be stopped by almost anything, beta takes differing thicknesses of material depending on the initial energy of the particle.
    The danger of radiation comes from the damage it might do in living tissue as it is absorbed. Almost anything from simple mechanical damage from collision with a living cell to disruption of the cellular material itself, as in damage to the nucleus that can result in all sorts of things, from death of the cell alone, to mutations that are self limiting or self replicating.
    All radiation comes from decay of an active isotope, whether the isotope decays in an induced reaction (think bomb or reactor) or by natural decay as described by half life. Neither Fukushima nor Chernobyl (nor TMI) were bombs, the radioactive (and fissionable) materials escaped their normal engineered environment and decayed, liberating heat that wasn't removed and thus melted core materials which escaped containment.

    That's the short and sweet.
    Gopherman likes this.
  20. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I've eaten in irradiated steak, and it was both awesome and had an incredible shelf life. Unless there is radiation remaining in the fish, which I would think you could test for, how can it hurt you to eat it?
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