Funny ad or funny business?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DKR, Aug 20, 2018.


  1. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    You've prolly seen the spot - a gas powered car drives up to a stoplight, with the Flinitstone theme music playing. Next car drives up (an electric) and we hear the Jetson's theme.

    Cute, right?

    Maybe not.

    The spot, by Deutsch, is part of the first national campaign by Electrify America, a wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen Group of America. The group, created in 2016, is overseeing a 10-year, $2 billion investment on zero emissions vehicle technology and awareness. The investment was mandated as part of the automaker's legal settlement with government regulators in the wake of VW's diesel scandal in which it admitted to installing devices on cars to cheat on emissions tests.
    (Flintstones-Jetsons song mashup powers new electric vehicle awareness ad)

    These were Obama era regulators.

    Let me post something from a dictionary.

    Fascism has had complicated relations regarding capitalism, which changed over time and differed between Fascist states. Fascists commonly have sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism to the state.
     
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Until they have a long range battery or a means to recharge within the time it takes to fill a fuel tank, electric cars will be relegated to the cities. Probably not a bad thing since that is where most of the air pollution is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  3. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I don't live in a big city.
    I have a relativly short range, slow charging 2nd generation electric vehicle and it works great. A 2011 nissan leaf with 24kw battery, good for about 100 miles of city driving and 60 to 80 miles of highway driving, it's built in slow charger charges at a rate of 3.8kw, which is only good for about 16 miles of range per hour of charging.
    I also have the optional DC fast charger, it will allow up to 48kw to be pumped into the battery, but I have not used it yet.

    As of this year the chevy bolt EV has something like a 60kwh batter and will do up to 240 miles. The new leaf has a 30 kwh battery and should do around 110 miles of range, the tesla model three has 2 battery options, I believe they are 60 and 75kwh. The standard batt is good for something like 240 miles and the bigger one does over 300 miles.

    Purely electric vehicles built since year model 2013 and up all use 6.6kw built in chargers. The optional fast charger like on my car is now standard on all newer cars the chargers are limited to 50kw.

    If you want to flush all that money for the convenience of being able to fill up in 5 minutes be my guest. Most people don't have to have this. If you are poor, can't pay your power bill and rent your house, or if you drive a really long distance to get to work gasoline vehicles are probably perfect for you.

    I don't think VW installed devices. They programmed the computer to recognize the EPA testing procedure and run the engine in such a manor that it easily passes the test.
    This is not a new thing. If I remember correctly GM did it first in the 1990s, or was at least the first to get caught.
    Devices such as catalytic converters, air pumps, EGR are allowed to reduce emissions.

    To me this is inconvenient. I can think of a lot of other things I would like to spend that money on.
    20180613_225409.
    This was the last time I filled up my diesel suburban several months ago and it wasn't even empty. It sitting still full in the back yard. Back around 2013 I was filling up like this every 2 to 3 weeks, so glad I'm done with that.
     
    Bandit99 and sec_monkey like this.
  4. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Anyone who wants an electric car, knock yourselves out. I won't be buying one.
    Personally, I have no desire to burn up inside any vehicle. Think Tesla.

    Like on medical bills in a burn unit?
     
  5. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I don't drive a tesla, I just put that I have a 2011 nissan leaf.
    Blame the overly complex, prototype like tesla battery system design for spontaneous fires.
    No one but tesla uses that design, no one else is having regularrly occurring battery fires.

    In the United States you are far more likely to be burned putting gas in your vehicle than anything to do with an electric vehicle. This is one of the crazier anti electric vehicle arguments I have ever seen.

    If someone is worried about being burned in a vehicle fire I hope they don't drive a gasoline powered vehicle. That woukd be about like being afraid of drowning and living on a boat.

    By 2030 liquid fuels will likely have doubled in price and could triple maybe even quadruple.
    Enjoy.
    I will still have my diesel suburban semi mothballed in a barn with several hundred gallons of diesel fuel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
    Gator 45/70 and sec_monkey like this.
  6. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    I was not insinuating that you had driven a Tesla. And, I understood your post quite well.

    By comparison to the number of petrol and Diesel (versus electric) cars on the road, I think I can safely say you are wrong in your assumption regarding fiery incidents involving filling fossil fueled cars. So, my argument isn't so crazy after all.

    AND, I am also pretty certain that, if the SHTF, you would dump that electric car pretty fast - in favor of your mothballed Suburban. So, how loyal, exactly, are you to electric car technology?
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  7. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Monkey+++

    As long as OPEC is around electric cars are just a novelty.
     
    Gator 45/70, Tevin and Asia-Off-Grid like this.
  8. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    If everyone begins to use EVs, you can bet the cost of electric power will blow through the roof with the increased demand. So whether you're spending the money on fossil fuels or on your monthly electric bill, (which will now cost you more to operate everything from your refrigerator to your air conditioner to electric fry pans, in addition to your car), or at the gas pump, you're going to be paying more. The electric grid and power generation facilities will also need to be upgraded in a big way.

    I don't understand the unicorned starry-eyed reaction of people to the prospect of EVs. It will only shift the demand and the high cost from one type of energy source to another.
     
  9. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    Electric cars will be a gimmicky niche market until the technology is so good (or gas gets so expensive) that electric becomes a realistic alternative. I drive a hybrid car for my job. It works fine just to go from point A to point B on level, smooth, clean roads. As soon as it starts snowing, or you hit a hill, or you load it with people and/or stuff, it becomes a total dog.

    I average about 48 MPG in the summer. That's without the air running. I'm not much of an AC guy. With the air on it drops to about 42 MPG. Still impressive but it's not going to change the world either. It would be even less if it was loaded down. In the winter I get about 35-36 MPG. Big deal...you can get close to that with a conventionally powered Honda Civic.

    It's a corporate fleet car. I have to drive what they give me to drive. I'd never buy one for myself. I suspect these cars were bought for public relations purposes.

    I also don't like the CVT transmissions. It feels like driving a damn golf cart. And @Altoidfishfins is right...if electric really catches on, it's going to seriously stretch the power grid and push up costs.
     
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    In a way, it's funny. Enviro enthusiasts push EV as a money and resource saver, then the counter punchers kick in with obstruction of pipelines or other means of carrying fuel to the power plants so the EVs can be charged up. Seems to me to be crapping in their own mess kit. Let this silliness be a lesson for prepping, diversify your options.
     
  11. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If I were to go electric I still would want to have a generator on board to charge when I'm out of range of regular service, and ,
    I would like an exchange system that can swap off the battery bank at home with another and have them charged on solar while using the back up. And what isn't used in the car is available to the house.
     
  12. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Ex-wife number one and I, purchased a new 1989 Pontiac Sunbird LE, that got - believe it or not, 40 mpg on the highway. That was, as long as you were easy on the pedal. I believe it had a whopping 2.0L, 4 cylinder motor.

    I don't think electric cars will be reliable enough where they need to be, especially in a single-charge driving range, anywhere in our life time.

    But, people who are proponents of them, definitely need to rethink their positions concerning these vehicles. They should install solar arrays to charge these precious vehicles, if they really want to get away from fossil or nuclear generated energy - without sounding like hypocrites.
     
    GrayGhost and Gator 45/70 like this.
  13. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    So, Whats stopping you from installing a generator in the trunk/roof/back seat and getting that machine up too a 1000 mile range or 2000 mile range?
     
    Asia-Off-Grid and sec_monkey like this.
  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I do think electric vehicles are the future and I am convinced they will change the world. The thought of being able to charge a vehicle that I use for simple transportation using solar would be a must-have for me, just to be rid of the oil baron's constant robbing of me would be worth the investment. I am not talking about trucks or service vehicles but a simple errand running vehicle that has a good range, say 300-400 miles. I don't believe the technology is there yet but it is indeed coming and the closer it gets the dirtier the oil companies will fight and being they are as powerful as some nations - well - we haven't see anything yet.
     
    sec_monkey and Gator 45/70 like this.
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Motor fuels are not the only choke hold the "oil barons" have on the public testes. Consider the price of power plant fuels and its effect on electricity rates. Consider also where state revenue will come from if motor fuel tax revenue is reduced.
    All that said, electric vehicles are not yet ready for prime time unless you go back in time to electric trolleys in urban (and suburban) use. How many of us beside me and Duane remember those? That would raise an unbelievable howl of enviro rage if those distribution wires went back up. Don't forget the "advantages" of electric commuter trains and subways and the costs of power to run them as well. This individual need for transport will never go out of style until the entire population is urban and farming is done by robots. (The oughta be a sci-fi book in that.)
     
  16. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I put EV Crowd in the same Category as the "Do NOT log the Forest" Crowd" How about we don't judge until two or three Decades Pass, and then total up the Costs... and see what is better for the World and the Enviro.... How many BILLION Biuckeroos have been Spent, and Lost, in the last two years to Wildfires, because these same DUFUS EnviroNuts claimed "We shouldn't Log the forests because of _________ ." Name your Issue...
     
  17. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    A friend has an EV. We tease him asking how his coal powered car is working.
     
    Tevin, Altoidfishfins, 3M-TA3 and 4 others like this.
  18. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I thought about that as a business...

    Standardize the battery and require compliance by all manufacturers, like many other electrical systems. Then have a drive through much like Jiffy Lube where the customer drives their EV into a stall and the modular battery is replaced with a fully charged replacement within minutes. Charge them an initial fee like a core charge then upon each replacement $50 to $60. I take their battery and evaluate it, recharge and install into another customer's vehicle. Call it Jiffy Charge! :D
     
  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Opec countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, iraq are going to stop exporting oil with in the next 20 years.
    Saudi Arabias economy is growing so fast they may stop exporting oil in as soon as 8 years and will likely be importing oil with in 20 years.

    I can produce electrical power a lot easier than I can produce my own gasoline or diesel. Therefore I can produce an enless supply of my own electric car fuel for how ever long the panels last.

    Funny thing is I sounded exactly like all the electric car haters 10 to 12 years ago.

    There are legitimate arguments against electric vehicles I have found, seems no one else has noticed them.
     
  20. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Chevy volt, plug in hybrid prius option as of 2016, Hyundai plug in hybrid option starting this year. I believe all new prius cars can be plugged in as of 2018.
    Plus a few others.
     
    sec_monkey likes this.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7