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Greek economy teeters on the edge..... Puerto Rico added

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by stg58, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+ Founding Member

    The Germans have grown tired of bailing out the rest of the Euro's and get tougher each time they come back for another bail out so it makes me wonder what kind of domino effect if Greece crashes.

    We know that barry will screw us if called on for help.

    One would think that Silver and Gold will spike .

    This may be a time to think about buying some Silver and Gold

    If Greece Leaves The Euro Then Spain, Italy And Germany Would Follow - Forbes

    If Greece Leaves The Euro Then Spain, Italy And Germany Would Follow
    At least that’s the claim from the Greek Defence Minister, Panos Kammenos, that if Greece were to leave the euro as the result of some failure of the debt renegotiation talks than Spain and Italy would follow out of the common currency. And in the end so would Germany. It’s certainly a possible ending to such a Grexit although it would probably be better if Germany were to leave the euro first.

    Panos Kammenos, Greece’s defense minister, spoke to German newspaper “Bild” on Saturday, saying his country’s leaving the euro could precede an exit by Italy and Spain, followed by Germany in the future.

    “If Greece explodes, Spain and Italy will be next and then at some point, Germany. We therefore need to find a way within the eurozone, but this way cannot be that the Greeks keep on having to pay, “Kammenos told Bild.

    As I’ve been saying for some time now the biggest threat to the continuance of the euro is not that Greece might leave, but that it might leave and then thrive. At which point people in Italy will indeed be asking, well, why do we have to suffer all this pain when we could just bring back the lira? And it is Italy that is really suffering most from the euro of those two countries mentioned, Italy and Spain.

    Greek economy teeters on the edge | Business | M&G
    As bank withdrawal limits in Greece plummet, citizens have been thinking up contingency plans for 'in case'.
    “Everybody’s doing it,” says Joanna Christofosaki, who is standing near a Eurobank cash dispenser in Kolonaki, Athens. “Our friends have all done it. Nobody wants their money to be worthless tomorrow. Nobody wants to be unable to get at it.”

    A researcher at the Academy of Athens, Christofosaki says she knew people with “€10 000 somewhere at home” and others who kept their stash at work. Is she among them? “If I was, I certainly wouldn’t tell you.”

    This week in central Athens it was not too hard to find people worried the latest breakdown of talks between Greece and its creditors over a new aid-for-reforms deal may have implications for the security – and accessibility – of their savings.

    With time running out to secure a desperately needed €7.2-billion in new rescue funds before month-end, when Athens is due to repay €1.5-billion in loans to the International Monetary Fund, Greeks are withdrawing money from Greece’s banks at an unprecedented rate.

    Bank deposits have been falling steadily since October and now stand at their lowest level since 2004. Withdrawals in recent weeks have averaged €200-million to €250-million a day, but on Monday – after the shock collapse of last-ditch talks between the Greek government and its eurozone and international lenders – withdrawals surged to €400-million.

    Money transfers
    “People are concerned,” says a company owner who asked not to be named. “I think those who could have transferred money abroad. Others have taken out enough to see them through any crisis. I have.”

    Sofia, who runs a boutique in suburban Athens, says she and her husband have €15 000 in a safe, “to be sure we’re not caught out”.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
    Marck likes this.
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    A fellow might make a good Living, converting Greek Money, into German or French Money, for a 5% Premium, right up until the bottom falls out....
  3. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I think that ship has sailed as Greek gov is making noise about the debt being illegal according to Greek governance.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  4. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Greece IS going to tank.

    They have been given multiple chances to right their economy, but the reality is that the Greek populous don't want to make the necessary sacrifices. I think that they think they can keep blackmailing the EU forever instead of fixing things.

    Unfortunately, it's best to pull the plug now and stop throwing good money after bad. I feel bad for those who will be hurt by that, but no country can live forever on handouts.
    Marck and BlueDuck like this.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I wish someone would explain that to our Pres......
    BlueDuck and oldawg like this.
  6. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+ Founding Member


    He has been told but barry would party like its 1999..
    "We are told guests arrived at 9 p.m. and danced late into the night."

    Prince puts on private show at White House | Page Six
    Prince played two shows in Washington, DC, on Sunday, but he also gave a private VIP performance at the White House on Saturday night to celebrate African-American Music Appreciation Month.

    Spies exclusively told Page Six that the “Raspberry Beret” singer brought Stevie Wonder up onstage for a surprise duet at the show for President Barack and Michelle Obama and 500 lucky guests.

    Spotted at the exclusive two-hour concert — during which Prince played hits including “Kiss” and “Purple Rain” — were Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson and his date, singer Ciara, artists Jon Bon Jovi and James Taylor, TV & film stars Tyler Perry, Connie Britton, Angela Bassett, Gayle King, Tracee Ellis Ross, fashion designer Naeem Khan and J.Crew’s Jenna Lyons.

    Also there: Carlyle’s David Rubenstein, 32 Advisors’ Robert Wolf and American Express’ Ken Chenault, plus DC power players former Attorney General Eric Holder, Education Secretary Arne Duncan and National Security Adviser Susan Rice.

    First daughters Sasha and Malia were also at the show, we’re told.

    In one showstopping number, Prince introduced Wonder to the stage and the pair sang “Signed, Sealed, Delivered I’m Yours” for grooving guests.

    DJ Cassidy took over after the show and spun tunes for the rest of the night. Prince is currently on his HITnRUN tour, during which he announces venues shortly before playing them.

    He played DC’s Warner Theatre on Sunday.

    After one show there sold out immediately, he added a later 11 p.m. gig the same night at the venue.

    The White House had remained tight-lipped about the party, said to have been in the East Room, where Aretha Franklin, Patti LaBelle and John Legend have performed in the past.

    We are told guests arrived at 9 p.m. and danced late into the night.
    Marck likes this.
  7. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Marck and Ganado like this.
  8. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Marck and BTPost like this.
  9. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    The entire system was designed to fail - specifically when those who created it WANT it to fail.
    They can pull the plug at any time, cause havoc and then offer their "solution".
    Austerity is Greece is NOT a solution....it's not the "people" that caused the problem, it's the banks and corrupt gov.

    The message here is that if you have money....."they" will find a way to take it.
    Right out of the bank without your consent...and call it a "Bail IN" not "Bail OUT".
    Ganado likes this.
  10. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Marck and Ganado like this.
  11. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Athens Macedonian News Agency: News in English, 15-06-17

    [01] Debt Truth Committee: Greece's debt 'illegal, illegitimate and odious'
    ANA-MPA -- The debt imposed on Greece and its residents by its creditors directly infringes on the human rights of Greeks and is "illegal, illegitimate and odious," according to the preliminary report issued on Wednesday by the Truth Committee on Public Debt. The Hellenic Parliament earlier released a six-page summary of the debt truth committee's preliminary findings during hearings conducted since April, when it was convened by Parliament President Zoi Konstantopoulou. This stresses that the entire adjustment programme imposed on Greece "was and remains a politically orientated programme," while challenging arguments that the policies imposed on Greece aim to improve its capacity to pay back the debt. It concluded that Greece was the victim of an "premeditated and organised" attack and of a "violent, illegal, and immoral mission" to shift private debt onto the public sector. "All the evidence we present in this report shows that Greece not only does not have the ability to pay this debt, but also should not pay this debt first and foremost because the debt emerging from the Troika's arrangements is a direct infringement on the fundamental human rights of the residents of Greece. Hence, we came to the conclusion that Greece should not pay this debt because it is illegal, illegitimate, and odious," the report said. Among others, the report notes that the unsustainability of Greece's debt was evident to all involved from the outset, yet Greek authorities and other EU governments, with the assistance of the media, had "conspired against the restructuring of public debt in 2010 in order to protect financial institutions." The report is divided into nine chapters, the first of which analyses the growth of Greek debt prior to the advent of the troika, after the 1980s. This asserts that the increase in public debt was not due to excessive public spending but "extremely high rates of interest to creditors, excessive and unjustified military spending, loss of tax revenues due to illicit capital outflows, state recapitalisation of private banks, and the international imbalances created via the flaws in the design of the Monetary Union itself." Chapters 2 and 3 look at Greek public debt during 2010-2015, concluding that the first loan agreement of 2010 aimed primarily to rescue Greek and other European private banks. The 4th chapter looks at what it calls a "Debt System Mechanism" set up by the agreements implemented since May 2010, claiming that they created "a substantial amount of new debt" and generated "abusive costs" that deepened the crisis further. Chapter 5 examines the conditionalities attached to the loan agreements, claiming these "led directly to the economic unviability and unsustainability of debt." The following chapter then looks at the human rights impact of the programmes, finding that the measures directly violated rights that Greece and its partners are "obliged to respect, protect and promote under domestic, regional and international law." The legal issues associated with such violations, as well as violation of the Greek Constitution, are examined in the next chapter, which concludes that "The agreements contain abusive clauses, effectively coercing Greece to surrender significant aspects of its sovereignty," and cites a series of reasons why these agreements are rendered invalid. The next chapter assesses the debts in terms of whether they are odious, illegitimate, illegal and unsustainable, finding them guilty on all counts. Among others, it says the debt to the IMF is illegal "since its concession breached the IMF's own statutes," while those to the ECB were similarly suspect because it "over-stepped its mandate by imposing the application of macroeconomic adjustment programs via its participation in the troika." "Debts to the ECB are also illegitimate and odious, since the principal raison d'etre of the Securities Market Programme (SMP) was to serve the interests of the financial institutions, allowing the major European and Greek private banks to dispose of their Greek bonds," the report said. Debts to the EFSF are judged illegal on the grounds that they violate treaties on the functioning of the European Union, while bilateral loans are seen as illegal because "they violate the procedure provided by the Greek constitution," and illegitimate "since they were not used for the benefit of the population, but merely enabled the private creditors of Greece to be bailed out." "The debt to private creditors should be considered illegal because private banks conducted themselves irresponsibly before the Troika came into being, failing to observe due diligence, while some private creditors such as hedge funds also acted in bad faith," the report said. The final and 9th chapter deals with "legal foundations for repudiation and suspension of the Greek sovereign debt" presenting options for its cancellation.
    Marck likes this.
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    So it seems that all the EU did for Greece was to postpone the inevitable. Sounds familiar, eh?
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Just what I said would happen to the whole system when it was first implemented.

    Like it or not EU is a bunch of wannabee super countries that still fight over 100 to one thousand year old perceived insults. A bunch of folks lost in the past and yet they expect their "countries", some smaller than states in the US, to be respected by all.

    Yes I have traveled their territories and enjoyed the lands and the people and like a lot of others I wish they would grow up a bit and actually become a NATION. Not gonna happen in my time.
  14. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

  15. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    If you read the report. The debt was caused by corruption and siphoning of money from taxes by banks and politician. The USA is in a similar position so not sure casting stones is a great idea
  16. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Casting stones?????!!!!!
    You win.
    You're #1.
    Gold *(plated made in China)* Medal.
    Good job.

    /me spits & tosses a pebble.

  17. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+ Founding Member

    Is this the start or just another warning?

    “Elsewhere, some people had started hoarding gasoline and groceries. We don’t know what the new day will bring,” said Katerina Vorreadi, who was among a group of retirees waiting in line outside the National Bank of Greece on Saturday night."


    Cash Withdrawals and Hoarding as Default Looms Over Greece

    ATHENS — The sun shone, as usual, with clouds floating in a brilliant blue sky above the Acropolis. Hotels were mostly full, shops sold T-shirts and the cafes along the narrow alleyways in the Plaka tourist district were bustling.

    It was a seemingly normal Sunday — except it was anything but normal.

    For many people in Athens, it was time to prepare for an approaching storm. A short walk from Plaka, a line of people waited to withdraw cash from an A.T.M., hours before the official announcement that banks would be closed starting on Monday. Some bank machines in central Athens had run out of money or were out of service, as screens blamed “technical difficulties.”

    Elsewhere, some people had started hoarding gasoline and groceries. “We don’t know what the new day will bring,” said Katerina Vorreadi, who was among a group of retirees waiting in line outside the National Bank of Greece on Saturday night.
    Marck likes this.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I wonder what @Minuteman has to say on this issue... He is closer to that situation than the rest of us are....
  19. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Its got my attention.
    Marck likes this.
  20. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    "The European Central Bank said it would not expand an emergency loan program that has been propping up Greek banks in recent weeks while the government was trying to reach a new debt deal with international creditors."

    Interesting. Syriza comes to mind.

    Skip to 7:10 for the Greece reference

    People knew this was coming for a long time.
    Restructuring debt to gain more control. Nothing new. In the end, the people lose and the bankers always win.
    IMF is mother, IMF is father.
    VisuTrac likes this.
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