Hypothetical tax revolt

Discussion in 'Politics' started by chimo, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    One of the common "solutions" offered to regain control of our out-of-control federal government involves "starving the beast" by cutting off their funding...in effect a tax revolt. That's a nice idea, but in reality how could it even be done? Anyone who is employed has no choice but to allow payroll taxes to be withheld from their paychecks, while other taxes are co-mingled into many of the things we need to survive.

    Sure, you can choose not to file your tax returns, but that does not deny the government the taxes they have already taken from your paychecks...if you are due a refund it only gives them more of your money! So how do you avoid payroll taxes other than by not working for someone else?

    By the same token you can refuse to purchase things that have taxes or fees attached...but again, how does one actually do that and still get access to the products and services they need?

    This thread is for ideas how a theoretical tax revolt could actually be accomplished by a large portion of the population who are theoretically willing to risk doing so.
  2. Aeason

    Aeason Monkey

    Don't know but wish I did.
  3. ditch witch

    ditch witch I do stupid crap, so you don't have to

    As someone who chose not to file tax returns for a few years while working self employed, let me just say the anal raping the IRS gave me a nearly a decade later over it was NOT worth the few years of feeling like I'd pulled one over on them. As it turns out, incorrect tax returns can be audited up to 7 years later but returns that were never filed are fair game for all eternity. Legal or not, the IRS operates on their own terms and none of us pleebs can afford to go up against them in court over it.

    As for refusing to buy anything with a tax attached, good luck with that. You'll be reduced to buying everything at garage sales and roadside stands, riding a second hand bicycle everywhere, and living in a stolen dumpster under a forgotten bridge. Everything else comes with a tax.

    The time to revolt en masse was when the beast was in it's infancy. Now the thing is friggin Smaug and I'm unconvinced we have any black arrows left.

    The only thing you can do with regards to payroll deductions is to set your withdrawal to the lowest possible pull. If you're married, tell payroll to set your deductions to single instead. You may end up owing a bit come April 15th, but at least you won't be giving the bastards an interest free loan all year.
  4. Oltymer

    Oltymer Monkey++

    As long as wage slaves make up the majority of the tax base any kind of meaningful mass protest against the current tax system is doomed to failure. I believe that is one of the main reasons the system has a fear of those who are self sufficient.

    You can choose to try and make less to starve the beast, but it can be risky business if you become ill. I live well below the poverty level by choice, but have everything I need, and accept no government assistance. I am pretty much self sufficient, but it took me many years working as a wage slave to be able to make a clean break with the system.
  5. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I would think that one would have to go completely liquid.
    Buy a sail boat or coastal cruiser in someone else's name, Work part time jobs and move often.
    Claim 10 dependents and don't file at the end of the year.
    Move on to the next marina or better yet, Private docking, Paying cash of coarse!
    Caveman Jim likes this.
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Been thinking for the past hour and still cannot come up with a solution... The only thing I can come up with is a mass refusal by millions of people to not file at the end of the year plus they lower payroll deductions to absolute minimum. I don't think they can stop payroll deduction completely.
  7. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    We may well be approaching the ultimate "tax revolt" and it may not be optional. You have to have income to pay taxes in the long run, in the short run they will take your house, land, bank account and anything else to continue their life style. If the system collapses, the dollar becomes near worthless, employment drops to near nothing and most of us are living at a subsistence level, think Greece, Zimbabwe, etc, you can not collect taxes. The mass media makes it sound as if people in those countries aren't paying their fair share of the taxes when it my well be that they do not have the money to pay anything. It may well get nasty in your local town if unemployment is at 50 % and the local teachers union, bond holders, police, town officials, road and fire departments, etc all go to court to force you to sell your house and use the money to continue to pay their inflated salaries and expenditures. We aren't even talking of the state and federal level of taxes and that will be even more drastic as you may not have a level of income that even requires you to file a return or in many cases may in fact under existing law make you eligible get money from the government.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
    Mountainman likes this.
  8. GOG

    GOG Free American Monkey Site Supporter

    Take advantage of the "Underground Economy". Barter and use cash as much as possible. Find alternative income sources if you can. Can you wrench on a car, detail a car or build a deck or a fence, do plumbing? Those and similar things are cash generators. Farmer's markets, craft fairs, gun and car shows, etc. can all provide cash on the barrel head. Make use of the web with sites like ebay, gunbroker, etc. and get rid of stuff you don't use or turn it into a regular income with some creativity.

    One of the reasons we moved to Oregon was because there's no state sales tax. I live in the county and property taxes are very low compared to the city. However, I'll never get away from income taxes because my income is a PERS pension and social security. And because of that, what was once a solid retirement income has become more of a gamble than a sure thing.

    If SHTF, I don't expect to have an income anymore, so that may leave me as a well prepared squatter. Who knows what happens then.
    Caveman Jim, tedrow42 and Mountainman like this.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Already been tried. Been there, done that. We've been fighting the privately owned IRS for decades.
    Good luck, you're gonna need it.

    Long ago, there existed the largest class-action lawsuit in history. It was aimed at the People's right to petition --and it ended up being nothing more than what I expected. The USDC essentially made up rules as they went along and empowered the IRS with not having to answer our grievances. To make matters worse, they could now suddenly prosecute non-compliance to file, nevermind the legality of it all. This isn't America, this is New Rome. We The People Foundation & We The People Congress

    If the largest, well orchestrated and funded movement ended in utter failure, what are the chances of success at another go? You cannot bargain with tyrants. My advice? Arm yourselves.
  10. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Got the scars from not paying or filing myself...and I agree with you that the time to stop this nonsense was when they began this armed-robbery called payroll taxes...if not when they implemented the taxes themselves. Indeed, the greatest scam in history had to be their sale of the 16th amendment to the voters in 3/4 of the states.

    That said, the whole point of this thread is to brainstorm ways that it might possibly be done (theoretically of course), not the reasons why it can't. ;)

    I was thinking the same. I figure one could use the W-4 to minimize what is withheld from their paycheck as much as possible, then comply with the law by filing their tax return....but just not attach any payment to it. Of course the IRS will still come after you...but mitigation of that result would be the subject of another thread. ;)
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2016
  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    With respect, shoot them all. Theoretically, of course. Anything short of that will not yield any results. See my previous post and many years of reading. I have experienced it all.
    ditch witch likes this.
  12. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    I agree...but that doesn't mean I give up. Us jarheads are funny like that. ;)
    Brokor, Ura-Ki and techsar like this.
  13. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    I stumbled over this , but anal raping is not what i'm looking forward to .

    Of course, there's a book YOU must BUY !
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  14. DarkLight

    DarkLight Live Long and Prosper - On Hiatus Site Supporter

    @chimo - I'm afraid this post isn't what you are after in the original OP but it's because I'm afraid it doesn't matter. Here's why...They will simply continue to spend what they don't have by increasing the debt ceiling and borrowing even more from the Fed. I sincerely believe that even if every tax dollar dried up somehow, they would simply operate at a 100% deficit for at least a little while.

    Now, I know people will say that there would be uber-hyper-inflation, and that's true, there would be, and as a penalty for trying to starve the beast.

    People will also say that the dollar wouldn't be worth anything worldwide. This, however, I disagree with to an extent. As long as those pulling the strings continue to manipulate the world economy, the dollar or whatever fiat of the day, will continue to have "value" in that global economy.

    But we'd become a third-world country. Again, agree to an extent. Yes, we would eventually tank to the point that things fell completely apart...as a "sovereign" country...and then we'd go into receivership via the IMF. Look at Argentina, Venezuela and a host of African countries. At that point, the gloves come off as the first few curtains are pulled back and things finally start moving towards the one world government and two classes...the fraction of a fraction of 1% and the rest of us
    chimo likes this.
  15. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    As I would believe the only way would be a total general strike , NO NOTHING moving. all would need to be on the same page , every 300 mil till it effected the other USA folks of 50MIL ..

    If you can't find out the truth / reason of 9-11 or jail the liar who's in a race , Maybe if every one voted for trump & he's not elected & the folks say Hey !! WTF !! then maybe you might get the 300mil on side .
    Enough rigging & lies / voter tampering plus all the rest , might make some wonder .
  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Funny thing about the IRS, Under Obummer, they have been given the powers of armed enforcement! They must fear the Sheeple to have taken up arms! I have no idea how to beat them, but when Rev 2.0 finally kicks off, Maybe we can fix some things, like No taxation with out representation! Or no taxes for the working poor!
  17. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    The best solution I can think of would be for people to embrace an alternative to money. The economic system is intrinsically flawed and people can't keep living according to a flawed system forever. The sad thing is, money is the only way any of us can place a value on anything. It has been consuming our planet since time was first recorded and has been filling in the cracks with greed and pettiness in the most recent years. Things become cheap and eventually there could be a dollar sign on every star and planet in our solar system to make people feel like they have ownership. I see a huge flaw in simple reasoning here. I see the delusion manifest from a mathematical equation quickly followed by an obsession of a man "wanting to get his". Because money = power which quickly becomes entitlement and ownership. People could be directly bought and sold up until about 200 years ago. The only reason it stopped is because something had to give between the product and the system. The people running the system realized this and cut their losses by abolishing slavery to preserve the system which has dominated the people all along.

    The system works like a pyramid. We are the rocks at the bottom carrying the weight of all those on top of us. It's hard to move because of all the pressure pushing down on us and even if one or two rocks became free, the structure of the pyramid would still be intact until someone can come and pop them back in place. The only way that this pyramid will topple is if everyone rejects the system at the same time... but then what? Do we keep using the only system we know? What kind of foundation can be built where others don't stand on the backs of those below them? Something that encourages the best aspects of human nature rather than the worst...

    If something vital to the functionality of society is going to be broken, it's a good idea to have a plan on how to pick up the pieces. I think that if this alternative to money can be found, it only needs to be told to the people and put into practice so that the pyramid falls. It's just a matter of defining it.
  18. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    Payroll taxes such as Social Security and Medicare can't really be avoided.

    The only way an income tax revolt would work is if a lot of people agreed to it, and stuck with it.

    As @ditch witch mentions, the IRS can be ruthless, but they are also very slow and sloppy. To anally rape you, they have to find you first. And if enough people are participating, they'd have too many cases to get to them all.

    Of course a few would get caught and for them life would really suck. But the odds of any single person being missed in the crowd are pretty good. The IRS can't screw everyone.
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    If you want a true story of a man who fought the IRS and won (and who also hasn't been thrown in prison ironically enough), then check out Joe Banister. Home - Freedom Above Fortune

    "Freedom Above Fortune was founded by Joseph R. (Joe) Banister, a former IRS Criminal Investigation Division Special Agent who learned of serious constitutional questions relating to the federal income tax and the federal banking and monetary systems. Mr. Banister’s expertise in the fields of accounting, finance, taxation, and law enforcement enabled him to not only understand these issues but realize that he could play a role in bringing the issues into the public arena for analysis and debate."
    Ura-Ki and ditch witch like this.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++


    Just to clarify, @chimo you are looking to just get rid of the federal withholding, correct? Because if you stop paying medicare and social security, some that truly need help will pay the price. I do not like supporting leaches but would I join a revolt that would hurt the elderly, the disabled or the veterans? No. If we stop feeding the beast, every veteran on here loses their benefits.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
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