I made gas prices largely obsolete

Discussion in 'Peak Oil' started by oil pan 4, May 15, 2018.

  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    At least I hope I did.
    Gas prices had been low for a while and I have been looking at nissan leafs. Those battery powered cars. When gas prices are low no one cares about fuel efficient cars so the price tends to drop.
    I was looking for a 2011 because they have the worst battery, a slower 3.3kw built in charger, but the 2011s accelerate faster and are by far the cheapest.
    I have a very specific list of specifications:
    Has to have the charging port for the rapid external DC charger, which was an option in 2011.
    Has had the battery replaced under warranty, so no more 2011 battery issues, for some reason having a newer better battery does almost nothing for resale.
    A car that's been up north in cooler climate, the cooler overall temperatures are easier on the battery.
    One that has the cold weather battery heater option.
    The optional charge port for the external DC rapid charger, I don't have or have access to the DC charger right now but I maybe able to get one.

    It should be here any day now I want to get it and drive the crap out of it and see if it's going to work for us. If not by the time gas is up near $4 a gallon resell it. Because when gas goes up near $4 a gallon people tend to over react and pay a lot more for these things. So I should easily be able to resell it if it's not going to work for us.
    It should be able to do most of our driving around, still going to keep the gas powered cars and drive those when it's an exceptionally hot or cold day.

    I will be charging it off 120v power until I can get 240v power out to the drive way.
    Charging with 120v power can take up to 16 to 20 hours to charge up a very low battery.
    So that's why I think they don't work for a lot of people, they only have access to 120v power and don't realize how slow 120v charging is.
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  2. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If I had an electric car,, I'd keep a small generator in the trunk for emergencies.
  3. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    I would look for a diesel car like a Volkswagen around 20 -30 grand new with a warranty and that's 50K miles mileage.
    better yet a Hyundai new with 100K warranty buy the least price one and drive it till the wheels fall off.

    I have found you save nothing if you buy used after 1979 and the more advanced they get the more expensive the issues. with computer technology we can at least look and find what probability of what systems could fail, and their cost. A friend has a eco vehicle the blender went out so his AC Heating was screwed the part cost less than a hundred the price to put it in was $850.00 divide that by the cost of fuel and mileage and that what you loose up front, so you start from scratch to recoup your investment.

    This is the same issue with solar how many thousands does it cost up front how much maintenance costs batteries are the prime concern and how much for insurance to add all that equipment on, and in theory it lasts 20 years barring weather damage and you need to clean them so if you hate cleaning gutters every year guess what.
    at a certain point your just prepaying for your fuel or electricity at some time in the future if there is no damage or problem you start seeing a return, if there is a problem or cost that is not covered by insurance or a warranty you start going underwater figure in 20 years your going to replace the batteries if you have not got a grid tie system 3 times and if you do have a grid tie you have no battery bank to draw from and you cannot run over your systems limits unless your connected to the grid. A vehicle is the same if your system goes down and needs a uncovered repair or a catastrophic loss of a really expensive component what have your really saved I have seen many of these ideas on the back of a wrecker going to the salvage yard, because the part was so expensive to get then install or the part was not available and you were afoot until you could find one and then it never is a local pickup now you have to have it shipped by truck due to size or weight.

    I have a friend that decide to use a motorcycle to save money he is in rehab now and will never be 100% and doctors figure it will take him a year so now he is on disability about 1/10th his earning and everyday is pain and struggle. The point is "the best laid plan of mice and men" and I have never heard it said go cheap or go home.I have heard if you go cheap it will cost you in the end.
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    How about an Electric ATV (Big Boy) with a 2+ Kw Honda Genset in the Bed with an OutBack MPPT Charge Controller that connects to the Battery Bank... What I call a "Poor Mans Hybrid".... Gets you where you want to go, and when you run the Battery Bank down to 50%, you crank up the Honda, and continue on your way... with jut a bit more Noise...
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    If you don't drive very far, it's a solid choice for local traveling as long as you don't pay too much for it.
    I wish the Tesla Model 3 wasn't all bluetooth oriented and the controls were only accessed through a single flatscreen. Otherwise, the base model listed at $35,000 would be a decent option.
    Ganado, hank2222, Gator 45/70 and 3 others like this.
  6. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Not to toss a wrench in the monkey works, but I did a long term study of Diesel vs Gas that can also apply to electric vs Gas or even hybrid! First issue is initial purchase cost; any thing non gas burning will cost more. The cost of "Fuel" diesel being about 15 to 25% higher. Efficiency, while diesel is generally more use efficient, the added cost at purchase and increased cost of fuel largely off sets any economic benefits. Some argue this, but it's generally true across the board for like comparisons you cannot compare a Honda Fit against a Ford F350 and say the Fit is better, it's not the same in any way. I found weather it's cars or pickup trucks, the only two deciding factors are the total miles driven, and to total load volume, or work load ether performs. The diesel will out perform gas over a long term, miles driven, work performed, but you have to keep ether rig far longer to actually realise any benefit. We had a Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel wagon, it cost 11k more then the same gas car. Fuel mileage for the Diesel was 34 mpg loaded up, vs the gas which gets about 26 mpg! The time and miles it would take to off set the higher purchase cost plus the added cost of fuel took 8 years to break even, even when the milege driven and loading was the same!

    In the pickups, the costs were quicker to recover, but once things were even, the continued cost off set of the Diesel carried the advantages far past the gas pickup. It took about 5 years to recover the cost offset of the Diesel. Once I had recouped the cost, the real gains came from the better fuel efficiency and longer term maintenance costs! As long as the Diesel rig never went down for a major repair, it eventually overcame the gas rig.

    This can all be applied to electric and hybrid rigs as well. I have no experience with ether of these types of rigs, but the comparisons are the same. Initial cost premium to purchase and equips to handle, operating costs, how much does this effect your grid consumption? Effienciey, how far can you go vs how long to recharge, and the added cost of the recharge cycle numbers against the grid usage vs total miles or time. How long to see a gain? How many miles traveled? Cost of Grid usage vs cost of fuel burned for work preformed?
    I see people do this all the time thinking they are saving money when the reality is they are actually spending more long term to try to at least break even, so I usually tell them to stick with what they have, tune it up, do the maintenance and repairs it needs, check the tires often and make it as efficient as you can, you'll generally come out ahead even when the cost of operation goes up! Take it for what it's worth!
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    The difference in Gasoline vs #2 Diesel is the Difference in "Federal, State & local" ROAD TAX.... In non-Taxed #2 Diesel you will find that it is 10-15% Cheaper than non-Taxed Gasoline... at the Distributer Level... If you are complaining about the Price of Fuel Differential by Grade, and type... Bitch at your State & Federal Politicos... They are the ones that have been imposing Higher and Higher ROAD TAXes on the Fuels....
    Yard Dart, hank2222 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  8. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    My step-daughter owned a Leaf for six months. What a nightmare. It was brand new and not a very convenient car. Unless you have the fast charger, you will spend a lot of time with your car plugged in because they charge slowly. The Nissan dealerships have fast charging systems but you have to call a number and load money onto a car you can use at the charging station. You cannot just your credit card in the charging stations. When the dealership recommends that you get AAA, that should be a red flag. Leaf owners who drive quite a bit, utilize their AAA membership often. The Leaf was good for about 100 miles on a full charge. But if you are driving in the dark (sucks the battery) in the winter (don't use the heat, suck battery) and do not accelerate (sucks battery). Some guy had a 40 mile commute, in the winter he couldn't use his car because he kept running out of charge.

    Please note- these are great cars for urban driving. They are zippy and very nice but if you have to travel much distance, the Leaf is not something I would recommend. I know Telsa owners and talking to them is a different story. Tesla's are cars that can be driven into the mountains and will get you where you need to go. Tesla's can be taken on a family trip but the Leaf just does not have the range per charge.

    @oil pan 4 has a good idea because if gas gets high, people will turn to electric. I think the government rebates on electric cars is gone which will make his Leaf a buyers dream.
  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    A small 120v generator is only going to make about 1 mile of highway driving range per 15 minutes of charge.

    The leaf a fairly decent sized hatch back that weighs 3,300lb, it has 4 wheels and air bags and stuff. Not as deadly as a motor cycle. Actually motorcycles are fine its all the other idiots out there that make them dangerous.

    Let's say you run the 24 kilowatt hour pack down by using 20kwh. To replenish 20kwh of battery power with 120v power you are going to be looking at up to 20 hours of charge time.
    If it's the slow 2011 and 2012 sport package the slow 3.3kw 240v charger then it will take 6 hours.
    If it's the 2012 and up normal 6.6kw 240v charger it would only take about 3 or 4 hours to replenish 20kwh.

    The 2011 and 2012 have resistance heaters. In 2012 a much more efficient heat pump heater became optional, then I think in 2013 and up they're all heat pump.
    But I'm in new Mexico so the cars ability to heat isn't as much of a big deal.

    But if you're only have access to 120v power, it doesn't matter what built in charger or car you have, you are only replenishing about 1kwh of battery charge per hour.

    The leaf is useless for long trips, unless you have it on a trailer and are pulling it.

    I live less than 12 miles from work and my wife is more like 6 or 8 miles. The next town is less than 20 miles away.
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  10. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    If I were to have an electric car it would be a dead giveaway that I was indeed a cylon-feel free to shoot the toaster driving said electric car.
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  11. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    You folks just need a PMC (Perpetual Motion Car). :D
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  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Me when gas prices hit $3.50+ a gallon and everyone is freaking out.
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  13. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Me when gas hits $3.50+ a gallon and that has me working 80+ hrs a week @ $85.00hr.
    At that rate I won't give a $#!t how much I spend on gas/fuel.
    I got one more boom in me;)
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  14. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Perhaps good timing, regular gasoline jumped up 30 cents/gallon today...
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  15. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    9C866888-BF45-4679-95F9-0C51231469D3. 342C2B0E-2B57-44DE-9003-215AFE7AC2EB. 6A4A98C6-499A-4933-A408-813AF7BDFB99. 90E6942F-C2DF-41A4-AFB2-73B5435E06B8. E00CC1C5-8A75-4A2A-AF31-44AA4D1F04EE. A1CD1B14-CE36-4B63-8577-7AA9616065B5. 4E415A36-BB3E-459F-8A9B-40D218542EE3. 9C866888-BF45-4679-95F9-0C51231469D3. 342C2B0E-2B57-44DE-9003-215AFE7AC2EB. Here my idea of a local electric vehicle
    chuckklr98 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  16. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    It gets 130 miles on a single charge and can do up to 60 miles per hour top speed it charge in three hours but a regular 110.volt outlet .it get littl about town vehicle
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  17. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson Monkey++

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  18. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    You would not catch me in one of those, anywhere. The first thing I am thinking is, if that thing were ever to be on any sort of a highway, with a semi-truck-trailer running it over - with me in it.
  19. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    I drove one was not impressed with it

    It made in Switzerland so it safe
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  20. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    My neighbor has his Nissan Leaf towed home at least once a month due to lack of juice....cracks me up.
    I have not had one of my diesels towed home since I blew the water pump on the truck a few years ago. ;)
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