They don't understand Ura-Ki. I get it because I went through it, the whole idiotic mess. It was a bit easier with my wife as I simply married her over there, Central Asia, then jumped through the hoops. Frankly, in that part of the world, there is no vetting by the host country, not really. Sure, if it's a heavy hitter then they will just pick him/her up and shoot them in the head. You never hear anymore about it but small stuff, like the whackos that blow themselves up... No one cares as long as not done in their country. And, if you got a visa for America then it's America's problem - meaning - even before you get the visa, it's not their problem. Of course, the American Consultant makes you jump through all the hoops: get a police affiliated stating your criminal record (yeah, right, $10 bucks and they put anything I want on it), go only to their doctors that charge stateside costs for your physical (even though they and the lab are locals) and takes an airplane ticket and a few nights in a hotel, interview is of course takes another plane ticket...on and on. All-in-all it costs about $5000, tons of paperwork which is meaningless and even the consultants don't understand it... Until you go through it no one can understand what a mess it is and how hopelessly screwed up it is. But, the point to be made here is that unless the Host country will vet the individual - well - they don't get vetted and America cannot vet them. It's impossible. And, most countries will simply go through the motions (it's America's problem) or they're very easily bribed. Currently, from what I've heard from friends in the Ukraine is that it is so hosed up right now that there is no doubt in my itty-bitty mind that I could go there and have a passport and a registers' stamp within a month...and anything else I wanted. Hell, because I speak a bit of Russian I bet I could get it even faster if what I've heard is correct. So, it's a Tourist visa to Disneyland, Florida and the next time you hear from me it's with a AK in my hands.
And that is exactly the problem.... no centralized clearing house... to many hands in the pie per se.
I don't speak for the others that you have mentioned in your last post, but only for only myself. Whatever I feel about my opinions is irrelevant to the discourse that I am engaged in. It matters little whether I, or others for that matter, feel good, bad, or indifferent about what is being opined about. Make an argument, supported by evidence, and be prepared to have said argument and evidence tested by reason...that is what matters to me. Understandably some folk get bent out of shape, when their opinions are tested and found wanting. I understand that. I cannot speak for how others interpret the USA as a polity, but for myself, I have never been under the illusion that the USA operates as a classical "democracy", i.e. direct rule by the people of a nation state, by simple majority. I have never held or expressed that view, and it is mischievous of you to straw man that as a belief that I have held or expressly propounded. Both Australia, and the USA have constitutional forms of government (possessing some democratic features): the differences essentially being that Australia retains the last vestiges of a titular monarchical head of state, within the Westminster system of parliamentary government Westminster system - Wikipedia, and the USA having a Republican form of government, with a president elected as head of state who is invested with certain limited, executive powers. Each respective governmental system, incorporating the separation of powers (between the executive, legislative, and the judiciary) of each of the three arms of government. The significant difference between Australia and the USA is that the Australian Constitution does not have a "Bill of Rights" in any sense like the Bill of Rights enshrined in the US Constitution. I recognise that in many instances, what I express represents a minority viewpoint. That doesn't mean that the minority viewpoint is necessarily invalid; nor that the majority viewpoint is necessarily valid simply because of the preponderance of people who believe it to be so. The things is, that "facts" have their own existence independent of how many people believe them to be true, or how many believe them to be false.
I'm all for Legal emigration, hell that's how this country came into being, and one of our greatest assets, BUT, it must be done by the established methods and those that wish to come here must follow those rules and integrate into our system and our way of life! Refugees are a big concern, they don't wanna be here, and they sure as hell don't wanna be where they came from, so that is a big problem that needs to be addressed! I think Trump putting a stop on this, and forcing a full review of things is definitely the right first steps, his plan for Mexico may be shocking and full of bluster, but I am betting it will curtail a big chunk of cross boarder crimes AND force Mexicans to rethink the ideals of sneaking across! I also see his plans at deporting those that cannot be vetted or failing the vetting process IS a good thing, we all know that there are many bad people in this world that should not be allowed into our country under any circumstances, this is but the first few steps in that!
Agreed fully. I agree that every nation should enjoy secure borders, and that they have the sovereign right to determine who may be admitted and who may not. That a country has agreed to accept refugees, does not mean that it is an unconditional, willy nilly, acceptance without the necessary security and health checks in place to protect the accepting nation's interests. It remains to be seen how effective Trump's immigration control measures will actually be in the longer term...a lot off apparent activity and dust kicking at the outset may not necessarily lead to actual enduring change for the better. Time will tell, after the dust from the initial flurry of EO's settles.
Well, immigration has been busted for decades, like since the 60s at the very least (swag so sue me if I'm off by 20+ years one way or the other). The point is that it's ALL of their faults, and not just the President even though he has to sign it to become law unless there is a vetoproof majority. He can't sign LAW until it hits his desk (moving on about the EOs). It's Congress, both houses, the President and everyone who ever voted because I doubt seriously that nobody you voted for (that won) at some point didn't contribute to the mess.
You can go on with your comments all you want.....Obama was allowing refugees into the U.S. without the necessary vetting as fast as possible...my state has even announced the number that were brought here.....Fact..... Enforcing the Law is never easy....The people who elected Trump want the Illegals and Refugees stopped....did I say it would be easy ? NO.......even though you sound as though you speak for me.....lol You childish name calling just shows me Hillary would have taken your vote.....useless as it would have been..... Your straw man comments are meaningless.....Obama was in office for 8 years, who do we blame for his massive failures ? Justin Beiber ? Kayne West ? Madonna ? maybe you ?
Go Trump.....even though the Bleeding heart NON-American Liberals from across the world forget Obama did the same thing while in office.....it was good when Obama did it.....now it's a terrible thing..... I just feel so sad about it all.....lmao......
I'm sorry that you "feel so sad about it all..."...far be it for me to suggest anything to a sad conservative, but finding a safe space from Chell's 'trigger words" may help alleviate some of the sadness....I can even share a safety pin, if that helps. I'll stand by you through your sadness. It may also be worth familiarizing oneself with the Tu quoque fallacy, rj. Tu quoque - RationalWiki fallacy...... Appealing to the alleged hypocrisy of "Bleeding heart non-American Liberals from across the world" does not strengthen your straw man argument of "good vs terrible".....which was not what I was arguing.... Had you read post Immigration..... | Page 3 | Survival Monkey Forums carefully, you will possibly have noted that I was questioning how I made no value judgement (in terms of "good" or "terrible") of Trump's EO. Both Obama and Trump are each accountable for their own sins in office....Trump's accountability isn't negated by any lack, on the part of Obama: Even if Obama's record is was as awful as it is being claimed to be...that doesn't justify letting Trump off the hook with a "get out of jail free" card for any ineffectiveness with regards to Trump's own policies and EO's
And the Idiot we have now !! He wants more ,, but why do you think they are seeking assylum? Why are they refugees? Because back home, nobody wants them! Sloth
Not my fault your leader made a deal with an idiot.......lol....and your argumentation is what ? valid because it's you ? lol......
There has been no mention in any of the posts in this thread; (least of all by me), concerning the negotiation of the resettlement of refugees from Australian jurisdiction, to the USA....your reference to it is just an irrelevant distraction....but that's what red herrings are used for. Red herring - RationalWiki Straw man - RationalWiki I haven't claimed that my arguments are valid, simply because I have made them: That's your mischievous imputation. The validity of the arguments that I express, stand on their own merits...which, incidentally, you have yet to challenge very ably. Throwing up a succession of logical fallacies doesn't help your cause....I suspect that it only serves to make you look silly, and make me look like a d!ck for pointing that out....but...I can live with that. I am however indebted to you for providing me with splendid material for a thread started by Ganado. Your Best Non-Swearing Insult | Page 2 | Survival Monkey Forums
