Kabul has Fallen - Don't Blame Biden

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Brokor, Aug 17, 2021.


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  1. No, All Government Is Garbage.

    56.7%
  2. Yes! I Feel That Biden Is To Blame Because He Is Weak.

    30.0%
  3. No, Other Reason.

    10.0%
  4. If It's On Television, It Must Be True.

    3.3%
  1. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Written by Ron Paul Monday August 16, 2021

    This weekend the US experienced another “Saigon moment,” this time in Afghanistan. After a 20 year war that drained trillions from Americans’ pockets, the capital of Afghanistan fell without a fight. The corrupt Potemkin regime that the US had been propping up for two decades and the Afghan military that we had spent billions training just melted away.

    The rush is on now to find somebody to blame for the chaos in Afghanistan. Many of the “experts” doing the finger-pointing are the ones most to blame. Politicians and pundits who played cheerleader for this war for two decades are now rushing to blame President Biden for finally getting the US out. Where were they when succeeding presidents continued to add troops and expand the mission in Afghanistan?

    The US war on Afghanistan was not lost yesterday in Kabul. It was lost the moment it shifted from a limited mission to apprehend those who planned the attack on 9/11 to an exercise in regime change and nation-building.

    Immediately after the 9/11 attacks I proposed that we issue letters of marque and reprisal to bring those responsible to justice. But such a limited and targeted response to the attack was ridiculed at the time. How could the US war machine and all its allied profiteers make their billions if we didn’t put on a massive war?

    So who is to blame for the scenes from Afghanistan this weekend? There is plenty to go around.

    Congress has kicked the can down the road for 20 years, continuing to fund the Afghan war long after even they understood that there was no point to the US occupation. There were some efforts by some Members to end the war, but most, on a bipartisan basis, just went along to get along.

    The generals and other high-ranking military officers lied to their commander-in-chief and to the American people for years about progress in Afghanistan. The same is true for the US intelligence agencies. Unless there is a major purge of those who lied and misled, we can count on these disasters to continue until the last US dollar goes up in smoke.

    The military industrial complex spent 20 years on the gravy train with the Afghanistan war. They built missiles, they built tanks, they built aircraft and helicopters. They hired armies of lobbyists and think tank writers to continue the lie that was making them rich. They wrapped their graft up in the American flag, but they are the opposite of patriots.

    The mainstream media has uncritically repeated the propaganda of the military and political leaders about Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and all the other pointless US interventions. Many of these outlets are owned by defense industry-connected companies. The corruption is deep.

    American citizens must also share some blame. Until more Americans rise up and demand a pro-America, non-interventionist foreign policy they will continue to get fleeced by war profiteers.

    Political control in Afghanistan has returned to the people who fought against those they viewed as occupiers and for what they viewed as their homeland. That is the real lesson, but don’t expect it to be understood in Washington. War is too profitable and political leaders are too cowardly to go against the tide. But the lesson is clear for anyone wishing to see it: the US global military empire is a grave threat to the United States and its future.


    Ron Paul is a former U.S. congressman from Texas. This article originally appeared at the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and is reprinted here with permission.
    Direct Link:
    Kabul Has Fallen - But Don't Blame Biden
     
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  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    What upsets me is that we can do nothing to save those that the Taliban will execute. Those poor people made a mistake in trusting us. My prayers go to them.
     
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Exactly as above.. The second we got the idea of “Nation Building” someone with some smarts should have stuffed a sock in that dufus’s mouth and DuckTaped him/her/It out to a Telephone Pole for a month or so.. You would think after Vietnam this country would have learned… but No, we had to do it all over again…. Talk about dumb… Different Day, Same Old Shit…
    and I bet that the above “We” was educated with some fancy Post Graduate Degrees from onE of the most Liberal University in the USA…
     
  4. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Its the graveyard of Empires we just happen to be the latest and it is not worth one American life let alone the cost we have already incurred. This is an unwinnable action with no endgame. The Afghan army will not stand on it own but we should no thank you we should have nuke Tora Bora in the beginning and been done with it when the American people and the world at large would have accepted that after 9/11 instead here we are with a butt load of Blood and Treasure down the drain. There are 4 President to blame they were all wrong on the endgame.
     
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  5. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    I blame low information voters who pay more attention to whats on entertainment or game shows, and reality TV than they do on what our leadership is up to.

    RE Biden - I don't feel betrayed by him because I expected his incompetence and ego to create disasters just like this. The only thing that surprises me is that I underestimated just how quickly he could get to this level.
     
  6. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I don't "Blame" the current occupant of the white house for this, though I heap a major pile on him for being plain stupid and saying the things he said leading up to this! NO, it was not just one man, nor was it a plan per say, it was a cabal of powerful elites who saw YUGE profits to be made pushing America into another Vietnam. Afghanistan is not a country the way others are, they are a series of tribes who are constantly fighting amongst themselves until one tribe comes to power and manages to hold it through shear force! You cannot fight that, not the way traditional wars are fought, so you ether go all in and completely dominate and then rebuild the way YOU want it, of you go in and completely destroy it and start over from scratch! This was never a winnable situation, no matter the hopes and dreams of those enlightened ones who thought it was a good idea after 9/11, and here we are, 20 years later still making the same mistakes, spending fortunes and blood, and for what? We never should have gotten involved in the first place!

    What will happen now, how many lives will be taken, who will take control, and what will we do about it?
    We left billions in weapons and materials there, now supplied to the enemy, who will waste no time utilizing it to kill those who stand against them. If this were my show, I would send in several heavy fighter/bomber squadrons and destroy every weapon I could as quickly as I could, and then pull out and let the shit storm run it's course until the region has some sort of stability, then let the next nation try it's hand at taming that monster!

    I have often said, there can never be peace in the middle east, NEVER! There is no way a functional government can ever hold it all together, not when you have all those tribes who hate all the others, so the best thing to do is wait till they kill each other off and then go do Nation building!
     
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  7. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Was told a story 30 years ago about a Turkish Major in the middle east dealing with one of the early fundamentalist groups. He scheduled a meeting with them at a time that conflicted with the daily prayers required of all good Moslem. When they arrived, they set down and started drinking tea and the usual formalities that proceed a meeting in the area. Of course he had the window open and when he "heard" the call to prayer, he proceeded to take them to the prayer area, where the rest of the office were waiting and proceeded to unroll a somewhat decrepit prayer mat. When they looked at it, important man, old mat, he said it belonged to my grandfather who was a farmer and it is a sentimental thing with me After prayers, they went back to the office and 20 min later the deal was finished, and I might say as well, was honored by both sides.

    Fact remains that we neither understand the people, their religion, their customs,etc, and in fact in our western eyes it is supposed to be something to be changed. Right or wrong, you make few friend by dis respecting a man, his religion, his culture, then burn down his house and tell it is all for his good and really he should change and honor us for our dedication to improving his life.

    Then you spend millions building a modern hospital, including power plant and disposal system as no infra structure exists to support it. Then you have to staff it with outsiders as there are no trained people to operate it. They in turn have no concepts of the local culture and routinely commit actions that are insults at best, like getting drunk and making a pass at a local or two men walking hand in hand down the corridor, and the whole thing fails. But the contractors, builders, people getting the bribes, etc, made millions on it and the man running the generator and the medical staff were paid $200,000 a year and up.

    Most of the actions taking by us in the last 20 years may have made some converts, who at best will not be killed, but it proved to most of the people that everything that they had heard about the decadent Godless westerners was not only true, but in the real world it was in fact even worse. The people with money left long ago and our selected President of the country and most officials and military leadership for the most part hardened the will of the people to resist and if necessary suffer in order to throw us out. In the real world, it is like one of the SHTF stories, but rather than being in the US, it was in Afghanistan and we were the Blue hats that had to be destroyed and driven out.

    No attempt in this post to talk about military industrial complex, profit motive for contractors and defense suppliers, politicians and civil servants, military officers and non profit groups, all milking it for all they can get. That would take another couple hundred pages and bore you to death. Most of those actions, as well as most of the comments talk about the impact it had on us, little attention is paid to the impact it had on them.

    America's Suicide Attempt—The Sequel
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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  8. johnbb

    johnbb Monkey+++

    Bidumb owns this and no one else. By his actions or lack of he has sentenced Afghans who worked with the US to a death sentence. He has equipped the Taliban with more weapons than they ever could dream of free of charge. He has sentenced young girls to a life of misery and no future. What should have been done--- months ago there should have been an evacuation of people. All bases should have been destroyed along with arms, ammo equipment. Scorched earth ---leave nothing the Taliban could use. One would have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to think the Taliban would not move in immediately. Add fuel to the fire-- guess who released the big cheese Taliban leader from Gitmo a while back none other than Dumb and Dumber ---Odumbo and Bidumb.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
  9. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    hard to pull someone from the 6th Century into the 19th.

    Another big mistake (and profit to the Rats) like Vietnam, and all the others before.
     
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  10. nkawtg

    nkawtg Monkey+++

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  11. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    For any of us that have served in the great sandbox....F' Afghanistan.
    The Middle East is stuck in the past worshiping a false god that is nothing but filled with hate and hell bent on destroying any life that they disagree with. We should have carpet bombed them with nukes.... all across the region.... not much of a loss.
    In my time in the AO, I found one local that I was pretty fond of.... she was a cute little mutt puppy... barked at every moving local, just not at us. ;)
     
  12. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    What we have witnessed is the rise of a new radical Islamist state that will align with Iran. Soon they will make their move on Iraq and the other gulf states for their push for their caliphate. I will wager that they will make those moves in the next year or two.

    I had said it from the start, we had no business in Afghanistan!

    17,000 Massacred in the Worst British Military Disaster Ever
     
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  13. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    Cause Muslims treat dogs like shit. Mohammad was a cat person. On a personal note I have a cat, and before that I had a dog for 16 years.
     
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  14. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    We used dogs on all of our outpost... they were always the first to alert to folks probing the perimeter.
     
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  15. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    Yea, cats just don't give a damn!:LOL:
     
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  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Yup, we added dogs to our teams pretty early on, always had a pair on alert per shift and we always had them on board when ever we flew! We even had emergency trauma care training for our K9's and it was pretty damn cool!
     
  17. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

  18. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    noticed a thing... who gets a lot of benefit from this???

    China and Russia???

    they were waiting in the wings so to speak...???

    this administration seems to favor China by a very large amount...

    for that matter SEEMS like all the dems and some of the repubs are favoring in the same manner...

    hmmm....

    are we the people dealing with a treasonous group of politicians?

    if so how do we deal with it???

    note: who chooses the candidates we vote for???

    does our vote even matter anymore with all the reports of fraud all over the place???

    hmmm....
     
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  19. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    noticed this as well...

    Taliban Now Confiscating Guns From Civilians In Kabul


    Taliban fighters in the Afghan capital, Kabul, started collecting weapons from civilians on Monday because people no longer need them for personal protection, a Taliban official said.

    “We understand people kept weapons for personal safety. They can now feel safe. We are not here to harm innocent civilians,” the official told Reuters.


    Taliban Now Confiscating Guns From Civilians In Kabul
     
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  20. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    Its a stark contrast watching this play out when compared with the television and news cycle. Each lie that comes up is covered up by another lie and when those lies fail they go back to Covid is going to kill you. The people are living in a perpetual state of fear. It never ends and must be constant to keep the masses under control.

    Let's also remember that they still have Twitter and social media accounts while Trump, as President of the most free country in the world, was suspended for what, mean tweets?

    Let us also not forget that the Taliban was once called the Mujahideen. This has been all but erased from their wikipedia page which has been remarkably well updated. Before they were called the Mujahideen they were called the CIA. This part, which used to be on their wikipedia page has also been removed. I have been watching this story since the 70s and I remember back then the news was bragging about how they were training the Mujahideen to fight off the 'evil Russians'. Its all a play. Its a made up movie designed to keep us all scared.

    Does anyone else find it strange that Biden went to get photographed with Carter, was compared with Carter, and continued all of his campaigns to disastrous conclusions? I think we would have been better off having Jimmy Carter himself in charge as he seems to be doing better than Biden these days.

    Taliban - Wikipedia
    The United States and the Mujahideen | History of Western Civilization II
     
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