I get asked that question A LOT. There is no right answer to that as there are so many variables that go into it. Including what your definition of self sufficient is. My definition may very well be quite different than your definition. Locally I have gained a somewhat large following and a reputation of being a bit on the extreme side of the Prepper Spectrum. So what works and is right for me often is way out there on the fringe for a more sane and grounded person. My definition of self sufficient is this. Able to provide 100% income from the land, 90% food, 100% water, 100% carpentry, 80% Mechanical and Maintenance, have at least a fundamental knowledge and working skill in primitive technologies IE Fire Making, primitive hunting tools, traps, weapons. A strong knowledge of local medicinal and edible wild plants, continually learn new skills and improve existing skills, know and understand the Constitution and the rights and responsibilities contained within, be skilled with firearms and have a working knowledge of how they function mechanically, Have a strong knowledge of food plants and animals and how to manage them to work together. Have warehouse, inventory and organization skills. Have infinite determination, be resilient and be able to bounce back from failures and learn from them. Be able to objectively watch what other do and learn and if worthwhile incorporate those things into your own program. Have the will, resolve and skill to defend and protect what is yours. At the end of the day it comes down to two things as to whether you survive and thrive independently or fail and wallow in dependence. The Constitution that Gives you the absolute right to pursue, try and fail or succeed, And the Land. If you are a Christian I suppose God and Jesus would be a third thing and the first thing. I am not, my God gave me 3 things the privilege of life, free will and this world to walk in for a time. When I die I will walk the spirit world with honor or shame depending on how I live the life walked here. No need for theological debates, I am not going to try and convert anyone outside of my religion and I will not be converted to another religion. The Constitution and the laws and rights it guarantees us has been under constant assault for a long time but is still hanging in there. So not much to say there beyond it is every Free Persons responsibility to support and protect those laws and freedoms that support and protect us! Short of the sun burning the planet to a little cinder or the planet exploding, the land will be here long after the last human is gone from it. The land and its condition sustain us and determine whether we survive and thrive. But enough of the broader concepts as individually all of us are just a tiny dot of paint in a very large picture that no one can fully see the whole of. I tried doing this on 6 acres the first time and I failed miserably. The second go with 27 acres went much better but still fell very short of what I wanted. The original 40 acres here was the sweet spot. But there is a lot more to it than number of acres. Location, land type, soil type, growing zone, game abundance, water, timber and being remote are all major factors in land choice for my definition of being self sustaining and independent. I spent a lot of time searching for this piece of land. I had MUST have requirements. The land HAD to have fertile soil, part generally flat to gently sloping, some with a bit of roll to it, and a stand of mature timber, ground water within a reasonable 50 feet from the surface, 20-30 miles away from a significant population center, very Rural and at the end of a dead end road. And at a price that I could pay for with CASH on hand. I finally found this 40 acres in 2008 for $70,000 ($1750 per acre) It met or exceeded all of the MUST haves. Perhaps a little too good on the ground water LOL 3/4ths of it sit on top a smallish aquifer with Very good water... A very close to the surface aquifer that in a wet spring becomes a above the surface aquifer. Unlike much of Southern IL you will not find a rock on this land. Step across the West property line and you will find no shortage of sandstone and limestone. Basically the rolling land before you get into the much rougher land leading down into the Shawnee National Forest. The road beside the property while a rough gravel road now was once one of the Major wagon roads to the West. At one time there was a trading post, muling station, blacksmith, and general rest stop here on the South East Corner and a ancient hand dug stone lined 20' deep bell well. I often admire the stonework and craftsmanship that went into that well. One of the cap stones on the well has 1814 etched rough and deep into it. We find a lot of old iron here from horse shoes to axe heads, old blue and green jars, cast iron cookware, and crocks that are sadly all broken, Iron wagon hubs and on rare occasions a long ago dropped and lost gold or silver coin will reveal itself. So a bit of bonus history here as well. LOL have a ever growing pile of axe heads, hammer heads, adze heads, horseshoes and wagon hubs that turn up when I disc the SE corner all pretty much so rusted you can barely make out what they are in most cases. As I have said in other post I am receding back onto the original 40 acres and am pretty much returning it to what is was when I started out here land use wise. BECAUSE it is very self sustaining and therefore sustains us and still provides a decent income. The yellow boxes are our human habitation and working areas. The Red Box is for the Hogs and Poultry The Blue Box is not pasture and hay anymore but corn to feed and finish the Hogs, Poultry and Cattle. The Center Purple Box is a once a year hay cutting and then all of the animals have access to forage it. The Orange Box is solely for Cattle. The Lime Green box is the new Orchard that should start producing a decent amount of fruit in two more years. The Green Box at the North end is the older Orchard with Pears, Apples and Peaches, the Central area is the High Tunnel I kept and the general garden. The Southern part of the Garden area is for crops that take up a lot of space and require more water like sweet corn, squash, watermelons etc. The timber in the red and yellow boxes provides the firewood and lumber. After 14 years of cutting in those woods I have barely made a dent in it. But I am also very selective in which trees I harvest from it. Those woods also provide Shelter from the North and West Winds in the winter. The bulk of our wind and weather spins up out of the Gulf from the South West most of the year but December through February the Northern weather does push the gulf pattern farther South LOL NOT having a 30mph wind hitting you in the face on 3 degree day when you step out the door is real nice and it is all because of those trees. Growing zone was a big factor. I wanted a long growing season and we have it being in zone 6 and pretty close to zone 7 and in the Spring and fall can still take advantage reasonably long cool crop seasons. I can typically grow greens, lettuce, radishes etc into mid November outside of the high tunnel with moderate use of row covers. In a bad winter we might have a week or two below 10 degrees and most of the winter in the 40s. Usually get one or two snow falls per year and a half dozen dustings. We do on occasion get some epic Ice Storms. Early spring of 2009 comes to mind. When the precipitation finally stopped I had 4 solid inches of ice encasing my truck and no grid power on the road for just short of 3 weeks. I still only had the solar panels, my truck batteries and a generator at that time here. Solar does not work so well with 4 inches of ice on it LOL remember having to tap around the camper door for 30 minutes with a mallet the morning after to get out of the camper. Same year we had what everyone calls the inland hurricane that one beat the hell out of us with sheer winds and blew a lot of big trees over. Wind was so strong it stripped every leaf from every fruit tree, tomato plant and pepper plant......... That is where the determination and being resilient comes into play The first 4-5 years here on a raw piece of land with nothing on it except the old well and my camper to start out was not easy! I made a huge gamble by investing nearly every dime I had into this place, the equipment and tools, the start up livestock, the fencing. At that time I had $165,000 cash to my name and I sunk $147,000 of that into buying and equipping this place. It was literally one step forward and five back the first two years here. 3rd year was break even money, 4th year I could afford to buy a bag of tobacco and a box of tubes now and then instead of growing my own and shredding it and stuffing it in my pipe or wrapping it in rolling papers. 2012 year 4 something clicked and I had folks lined up to buy eggs, pork, Dexter Calves and vegetables and it has been a good ride since then. More than a few times during that first 4 years here, I beat myself hard for ever trying to do more than the 6 acres and being a wage slave to someone else. I am a terrible employee I have no patience with bosses and it is only a matter of time before I tell them to F off and die. Can't help it that is just me. Funny thing is I am harder and more brutal on myself than any boss or alleged superior ever was. I can see why being a dependent is so attractive to so many people. Being independent is NOT EASY and the more independent you become the deeper the deck is stacked against you, from the Government to other people being more worried about how you are living and what you are doing than they are about their own lives..... Or as Grandpa would say "They think they don't have enough of their own business to mind that they are driven to get all tangled up in yours." Currently a few of the neighbors up at the front of the road have the operational theory that I stopped selling food and am now operating a meth lab down here at the end of the road........... Only a matter of time before the Sheriff or a Deputy drops by and ask if I am running a meth lab down here at the end of the road LOL..... there is a reason I like Hogs more than most people Of course now days I am believing the Hogs have more common sense and intelligence than most people. Except maybe that sow that fully believes she is a cow and has nothing to do with the other hogs........... And The bull that seems to also believe she is another cow. I will let you conjure yer own images of a Bull and Sow having a romantic encounter LOL. SO I am like OoooooooK so you Identify as a cow,,,,,, fine yer a cow! Can't keep her in with the other hogs anyway.. I get her in the hog area and a hour later she has busted out and is back with cattle again anyway. Makes more sense to me than men cutting their whackers off and calling themselves women. SO how many acres, my answer IMO is 40 if you want income, food timber for lumber and firewood, a dependable natural clean water supply (And Have that ground water supply tested to ensure it is free of man made chemicals and naturally occurring toxins like arsenic and bacteria.) And as I said it is not just the number of acres it is the kind of acres. 40 acres of arid scrub land or 40 acres on the side of steep slope hill or mountain are pretty much worthless for a homestead/farmstead cheap to buy but not sustainable to sustain you. I can't speak for every where but land similar to mine in geography and location is currently selling for $4,800-$6,500 per acre Pre Covid it was going for $3500-$4,000 the odds of finding 40 good acre for $1,750 per acre now days are pretty much zero. I have also noted the smaller the acreage the more expensive it gets per acre. Seen more than a few 2-10 acre pieces of not very good land sell in the $10,000-$15,000 per acre range the last couple of years. I have a good friend that is a land broker, he is actually the one that finally found this piece of land for me and told me to jump on it fast! Told me the other day he is still selling the 5-20 acre tracts sight unseen for 2X to 2.5X what the land is actually worth. Also says he can't keep a inventory of those properties for sale as they sell within 2-3 days of being listed. His visit was to feel me out and see if I would be interested in breaking a 60 acre tract I own down into 5 acre tracts and listing them. To my way of thinking that 60 acres is more valuable to me for the crops it produces than having a dozen new neighbors on my NW Corner Rural land in general is a whole new ball game now than it was even 2 years ago. Way too many life long urbanites buying it up and coming out here and mucking the order of things all up. Friend over in East TN Knoxville area tells me people from NYC and NJ are buying up the entire country side over there and he sees as many NY and NJ plates as he does TN plates now days. The ones we get in this area seem to be mostly Chicago and STL Expats of a Leftist Nature with a trust fund backing them. Nope a single stalk of field corn has more value to me than all of them combined. Guess what I am saying is it has gotten to the point that is VERY expensive to repeat what I have done. The land that cost me $70,000 14 years ago will cost you $200,000 to $260,000 now. Try and find a good used 100hp bucket tractor now days...... yer gonna get price shock! My 20 year old dodge diesel truck that cost $21,500 off the dealers lot with 300 miles on it....... Yeah a truck comparable to it now is going to start at $75,000, a decent 1 bull 3 cow starter herd of cattle that is decent will start at $10,000....... We shall not even go into how much the fence and T post to fence and cross fence 40 acres cost now days....... I had been in business since 1998 when I bought this place but always had to work for someone else to make the ends that were always to short to meet up. The Six acres was profitable but not nearly enough income to live on or grow with and certainly did not have the space to give me the independence I craved. I seriously doubt I could even get started and going working two full time jobs with even six acres today. I am not trying to be a downer with this, rather a realist of what someone wanting to live independently and as freely as possible is going to be up against today. When I relocated the farm to Southern IL. there were 50 give or take 1 or 2 other small farms that started up the same year around here ranging from 5-60 acres in size. There are exactly 2 of us still going that have not filed bankruptcy and been foreclosed on. LOL of course as long as I pay my property taxes it is not really possible for any kind of foreclosure to happen here. If I had not paid cash and bought everything outright to start here and payments and a mortgage I would be as extinct as the rest before I even got close to that magic 4th year here. Since that time I have seen hundred come in repeat the same things that those who failed before them did and have the same outcome. A few years back one of them asked me how I did it and how I do it, "You rake the money in and make it look easy!" I drive a 2001 truck, my tractors are 1970s , my implements are 1940s through 1980s stuff, I am my own bank if I want to buy something I literally borrow it from myself and pay myself back with 2% interest succeed or fail in what the loan is for it gets paid back! I spent $140,000 building the Chuck Wagon and Commercial Kitchen two years later the loan for that was paid back with the profits the Chuck Wagon and Commercial Kitchen earned. It paid for itself before it ever paid me a dime. Now the income they generate or not is mine. I decided the cost of doing any business was to high for 2022 and the trucks and trailers will stay parked this year. I will gain nothing from them in 2022 more importantly I will lose nothing by having them sit in 2022 and they will still be mine in 2023. If I played like everyone else does I would have Phat Payments on every truck and trailer and the repo man would be here to take possession of them in pretty short order. My newest truck is the 2010 Box Truck my Oldest Truck is the 1971 International 3/4 ton. The I HAVE TO HAVE IT ALL RIGHT NOW instant gratification is strong in the two younger generations. Was not weak in my own GenX but nothing like it is now days. Me I want the most affordable options to do what I want or need to do and at the end of the day owe no one anything other than myself. People always telling me how great credit cards are and how much cash back you can get using them.......... I am the guy that on the rare occasion I try to use my bank debit card instead of cash get declined because my card has been cancelled due to lack of activity! And I end up breaking into the truck money box and paying cash anyway. Cash in general is GOOD the two shipping containers I just bought and put in if I paid anything but cash were going to cost a bit over $10,000 since I paid in $100 bills they were $8,000 even.... Don;t think I need to explain why cash very often gets you large discounts Used to be 70% of my own business was cash n carry, now that I am retired or sort of retired 100% of my business is cash and carry or trade in kind. LOL electrician was recently out and when he finished the job I asked "What do I owe you, Cash, Beef, Pork or a mix of all 3?" Settled up for $40, a ham and two T bones. Suggest barter and trade to pretty much anyone under 40 now days and they look at you like you are grunting out Arabic. Seems the older folks are the more they understand the value of things vs cash and if it is a thing they want or need and they have something you want or need the negotiations for a fair value between the two things can usually be found...... otherwise dead presidents will work. To me Money is useful for one thing...... Trading for things of real tangible value. In my world the value of say a shotgun shell loaded with #6 shot is equal to the value of the rabbit or squirrel I can bag with it. Want one of my 20gauge shotgun shells it will cost you a dressed squirrel or rabbit I place a high value on my shotgun shells, more value on my Deer Rounds. Even higher value on my people rounds. Luckily for me those rounds cost very little in dead presidents in comparison. In a much darker world where I fear we are heading to the true value of those rounds may very well become more of a reality than a concept of value. How much is a cane pole a length of fishing line, a hook and bobber worth? about $10 right now how much is it worth if the neighbor has all of the hooks bobbers, line and poles and no one else for 20 miles has any? A whole lot more dead presidents or something you have and can part with of equal value Anyway seeing a lot more barter and trade now days than I ever have before. And the Government HATES trade among people and businesses other than money. Trading things of equal value can't be taxed LOL. Money transactions that go through banks can be and are tracked and all of the sales taxes, and income taxes then get applied. If I trade $5000 bull for a $5000 planter there is nothing to tax. Cash is very dangerous to keep now days....... not from the criminals you would think, the danger comes from the criminals in Government and more exactly the civil forfeiture laws. Large amounts of cash in your possession automatically makes you suspect of criminal activity and the cash subject to confiscation. Once Seized it is very difficult if not impossible to recover your cash no matter how legit the money is. Every podunk police department around abuses civil forfeiture to some degree many to a large degree. This is a big concern of mine when buying livestock, I use cash the breeders I buy from like cash and if I am buying 10-12 steers to finish I may have $15,000 in cash in the truck strongbox. If that strongbox were ever discovered on a buying run and I were forced to open it, I would lose that cash to whichever police department discovered it. I would never be charged or convicted of any crime and to recover it would have to prove that the money was earned legit and not the proceeds of criminal activity. So it is always a relief when the cash is handed over and the cattle ran on to the trailer......... LOL don't have to worry about them confiscating the cattle yet.......... Right now they just want cash and vehicles and occasionally your land and house. If you don't want to get mugged by the police and you have to travel with cash make sure every light works, do the speed limit and do NOTHING to draw attention to yourself! In general I never carry more than a couple hundred dollars in the wallet and no more than $1000 in the strongboxes. Uneless I work a show with the food trailers and some of the bigger shows bring $10,000-$12,000 over the course of a weekend, so after those shows I get a bit nervous bringing home the bacon as well. So far I have only lost $4000 to civil forfeiture that cost me $6500 in laywer fees to get back and only took 2 years for a net loss of $2500 but it was the principle of the matter. Very difficult to prove a negative! and it was a very expensive turn signal being out........... but hey I only got a warning ticket for the turn signal!!!! Nothing quite like the feeling of getting robbed by those sworn to protect and serve Think I will close up this multi faceted post with that LOL
While I agree with every thing you say, age and health make self sufficient long term survival impossible. My plan is to keep debt free, garden and long term storage caches, and just be as gray as possible. Have a little land, tractor and equipment, seeds and fertilizer, a little knowledge, and hope that those younger than me and much more physical able, will see some value in my knowledge and keep me and mine around.
I am past the work my self to death phase, hoping in the next 10 years to get everything in place to make the final 5-10 years easy and enjoyable. Sadly it has been my experience with those younger that they are generally to busy knowing everything to learn anything. The odds of me making it past 75 are pretty much non existent and I am good with that. I have no interest in being the old guy hunched over a walker, packing a oxygen and drooling in dementia driven bliss. If the odds were that I could live to be 100 and still have my faculties and be in reasonably good health that would be great. Family history just does not predict that 100 year old outcome for me LOL.
Well done (Thunder5Ranch), your long hard work and foresight has you in spot most would envy. But as you mentioned they would never put in the time and effort that it takes to be truly self sufficient. I hope you live long and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Who knows, old age can sneak up on you before you know it. It sure has with me. Each day seems to go by faster then the day before. Seems like I went from 50 to 75 in the blink of an eye.
Long list of family that dies in the 70-75 year old range so I am kind of planning on 75 as the expiration date 54 now and figure 54-65 are going to be my get the last things in order to make the last 10 from 65-75 as easy as possible phase of life. That 65 to 75 I am planning on spending most of my time on a creek bank or at the pond with a line in the water waiting for a catfish and sipping on bottles of Grape and strawberry Soda Started out life rough and was on a bad track for most of my youth, best thing I ever did was graduate high school a year early, score really high on my ASVAB and joined the Army at 17 that got my head screwed on straight and living for the future instead of the moment but staying grounded in the present, if that makes any sense LOL. Just a few different choices through life would have brought me to much different outcomes.
You can just never tell. Both of my parents died in there mid to late 50's. I always figured I would be doomed to a similar fate. Not so. An uncle from my mom's side of the family drove out west to visit me and I learned, most of that bunch all lived into their 90's and some over a 100. Ill be 76 in 3 months so maybe I take after that side of the family. Who knows. One day at a time.
I'm 60 now . Dad died at 72 ,, Mom died at 79 ,, can't recall dad's parents dates ,, but mom's dad lived to 93. I'm expecting another 10-15 years ,, which will max me out at 75 ,,, what I'm not prepared for,,, is making it to 90 ,,, that's 15 years more than I think I want to be around for,,, especially with the direction this dirtpile is headed.
