New Sheriff in town

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Oltymer, Jan 20, 2017.


  1. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Is this what you support, Chell?



    Difficult to understand why Chell is so upset.
    He lives happily in his neo-communist country with his free health care and 75% of his income going to the government.

    Oh...and
    We don't buy your propaganda pasting of photos of the Nazi death caps trying to equate it to Trump.

    Perhaps you should keep your nose in your own country's business and stay out of ours.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
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  2. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Anyone else notice the down trodden snowflakes busting windows, looting stores, you know, the usual non-violent protest they always seem to do when they don't get their own way? OK, so one of them was a Starbucks, and if I was spending that sort of money buying a lousy cup of coffee there I might want to get something for my money too.

    Was that "75% of his money going to the state" satire or sarcasm? When you live OFF the state, 100% of your money COMES from the state!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I am aware of who the Nazi's were, and where they fit in the political spectrum....perhaps more so than some here: That the word "sozialiistische" appears in Hitler's Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP) , has as much to do with socialism as the word "Demokratische" has to do with democracy, with regards to East Germany's, Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR). It's a rookie mistake made by many with only a superficial understanding of German political history.

    ......"He'll do for now", sometimes has a way of becoming "hell" has become now.

    Nazism is an extremist rightist ideology....not an ideology of the left.
    Nazi Party - Wikipedia

    The etymology of the word "Nazi" is interesting.....nothing to do with socialism, but a pejorative term used by opponents of the NSDAP.


    Edit: The meme referenced in post #2 New Sheriff in town | Survival Monkey Forums underscores the processes by which heinous crimes can come about in a political environment where democratic institutions are weakened, by the apathy of the nation's populace, and the opportunism of a populist ruler who, over time, relied more on intimidation and self promoting bnll$hit than popularity. STG58's reference to Martin Niemoller New Sheriff in town | Survival Monkey Forums is instructive as to how the citizens who gave Adolph his chance, were ultimately boiled alive by gradual decrees.

    The Industrialists, military, religious leaders, and other power brokers held fast to the fantasy that they owned and could control Hitler....but discovered to their cost that he was more devious and cunning than they could have imagined....and in the end, Hitler dragged them, and the whole nation to utter destruction.

    Who knows what Trump may bring America, in his time as President....I am not imbued with a great sense of optimism, given the hoopla surrounding his ascension to the White House throne, and some of the choices of cabinet appointees that he has nominated for confirmation....Betsy De Vos, being one of a number of appointees nominated for Senate confirmation that are very contentious, to say the least.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  4. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    scale wise this is my understand of government... left a few out but these point to most different forms...


    Totalitarian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------anarchy

    ---------Communism---Socialism---Nazism----Fascist-------------------------------Original rep Republic

    that is my understanding of what it is you are talkin about...

    so I got it... you appear to lean toward leftist/statist/progressive/socialist form of government...
     
  5. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I'm not clear why this thread has devolved into attacks on @chelloveck

    He keeps making points that you may not agree with if so please argue the points instead of acting like the liberals you seem to despise. Liberals go on the attack at a personal level instead of dealing with facts. Cello has made several good points about Hitler and compared the rhetoric to some of Trumps. He may or may not be correct in his assumption but in no post has cello attacked anyone else's beliefs like he has been attacked. let's have a discussion if you disagree with him instead of devolving into personality.

    I voted for Trump and like cello I have my concerns about him as a leader.
    1) some of his 'shoot from the hip' comments and tweets cause him to look like a hot head. He could calm alot of things down if he wasn't so quick to shoot.
    2) I have concerns that the Republican party will not support what he needs to do. And I hope that Donald is good enough of a negotiator to actually get them to line up.

    Only time will tell
     
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    @Ganado - What are you seeing that indicates an attack on the person? His points are attacked in proper debate fashion and he's defending them; and vice versa.

    Carry on, folks, keep it civil as it has been.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  7. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    What's funny is Starbucks donated about a 100K to Hitlarys campaign!
     
  8. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Sometimes is tough to maintain civility when the punch bowl of the thread got crapped in starting with the second post. It would be different if the crapping was instead a digression meant to educate and inform and not to incite.

    For those interested in where Nazi's fit in perspective to the American right here is a good read that also explains the European left-right scale. Though the subject is Fascism, Nazism is also discussed. Also, the article is a response to another that gives reasons for Fascism to be considered on the right, and is linked so you may read that information as well and make up your own mind.
    Was Fascism Right-Wing (Again)?, by Jonah Goldberg, National Review

    The cliff notes version is that both Nazism and Fascism are to the right of Communism they are still to the left of Capitalism.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    SnowFlakes LOVE Starbucks..... It is the only thing that will MELT a SnowFlake.....
     
  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @chelloveck "I am not imbued with a great sense of optimism, given the hoopla surrounding his ascension to the White House throne..."
    With all due respect, you don't have to be. You did not have to live under President Obama's rule. We did. You do not have to live under President Trump's rule. We will. I don't think anyone on this forum has any illusions what Big Government, the Corporate Cartels, or politics in general is all about, no matter who is appointed to what positions. As far as the 'hoopla' it is not because we believe he will be our Messiah it is purely out of relief that an Obama the Second wasn't elected and that some common sense, just a bit, will reside in our highest office and possibly, again - just a bit, put our country first on a few things, and first and foremost, follow the Constitution instead of trying to circumnavigate it for their own purpose.

    In all honesty, I find your opinion and demeanor concerning President Trump confusing. Why? Because while Europe would catch cold in Napoleon's France, the whole world catches a cold if America sneezes. You reference the Nazis but imagine what would happen if a completely corrupt party with their own agenda captured the American government. Many of us think under Obama we already took the first steps down that road...personally, I think it was looking very grim. For the last 8 years, Americans have had an agenda crammed down our throats that we didn't want and does not reflect the America we were taught, that we know and certainly not one we want in the future. I think that was clearly reflected by the majority of this country in the election. While you cannot see it thousands of miles away, this country has taken a huge step backwards in the past eight years in almost all matters and still they lie to us and spew racial and political hate and separation. In this regard, President Trump at least has told the unpopular truth whether it is about the economy or the possibility of bringing Muslim terrorists into the country with our defunct immigration policy. Our country is broke economically and spiritually from lack of leadership from leaders that just don't care about the country, about us, they only had their own agenda. We fell asleep and allowed this to happen, our own fault and whether we can reverse it, slow our decline or continue down that slope is yet to be seen but at least now we have a little hope.

    So, I would think that you would be happy for us and a bit hopeful instead of being so bitter and demeaning. But, maybe that is how you're different from me and others on this forum. We're Nationalists, plain and simple. Whether that's good or bad, who knows? But, I want what is good for America and the majority of the time that is good for Australia too...so, so yeah, I'm confused about your obvious negative attitude.

    As far as some of the cabinet appointees, I agree. But, leaders should be allowed to pick the own team to achieve results; that's why we voted for them. As a leader, I am sure in the past you have had to work and lead some that were excellent at their position but were, to use your own words, 'contentious.' I certainly have.
     
  11. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    With regard to the cabinet picks, I am a little disappointed that so many have "government experience". I would have rather seen more "outsiders" to bring some common sense into the equation.
     
  12. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Amen. Some here have posted truths and been viciously attacked for it, by those who do not have the best interests of the group as a whole in mind, but only their own, venal, agendas. Only goes to show, no matter if it is big or small, the haters will attack any signs of truth, intelligence and common sense where ever they find it so it can't spread and endanger their little fiefdoms or expose them for the fools they are.


    I don't see this thread devolving in to an attack on Chelloveck (anyone here bothered to look up who Chelloveck actually is/was? No? Hmmm.). VC has seen fit to present a differing point of view than most here. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don't. I almost always get a kick out of him, even when I think he is full of condensed owl droppings. Whether he actually believes the point of view he posts/expounds is unknown to me, but he sees fit to post them, just as others see fit to post unpopular truths and suffer the slings and arrows of fools for pointing the truth out as well. As far as "attacks" go, Chelloveck is still fairly far down the list, but your point is still well taken. Why not argue facts, instead of mindless attacks on people for posting "crap" when it is something the attacker doesn't want to have exposed for their own reasons? A little honesty and civility might go a long way to improve things here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  13. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    I also agree with PM about the picks being gov't hacks, but then they probably need some gov't experience to get things done when they aren't communists and have the entire gov't filled with fellow travelers ready to smooth things out for them and promote the general destruction of the country.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Pax Mentis "With regard to the cabinet picks, I am a little disappointed that so many have "government experience". I would have rather seen more "outsiders" to bring some common sense into the equation."
    In total agreement! Be thankful it's not me sitting in the White House as I would have surrounded myself with a group of hard-nosed Grandmas armed with calculators and red pens to balance the budget. And, I would bet they could do it.

    @Ganado "I'm not clear why this thread has devolved into attacks on @chelloveck"
    Nahhh, Ganado. Chello brings a lot of these attacks upon himself. Plus, he does it on purpose to get his point across AND I think he actually enjoys it. He certainly good at it. I know I enjoy discourse with him...unless, of course, he gets me in a corner. LOL! It's good he's here because it helps keeps us balanced, forces us to use facts instead of emotions. Yeah, he went out-of-bounds a bit this time, depending on how one wants to interpret it...
    "I don't have an issue with competent former generals being given defence / intelligence / security portfolios, provided that they are not the kind of Keitel / Jodl generals that served a similar populist politician in the not so distant past..."
    What's that again, a 'similar populist politician'? Wait a damn minute!!!
    "populist: a member or adherent of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people."
    So, not only is Trump 'similar' to Hitler but because I (we) am one of those 'ordinary people' that supported him...we're Hitlerites or neo-Nazis?!?!?! Hmmm, that's disturbing and I hope the wife don't find out. :) But, didn't I admit to being a Nationalist? Wellllll, errrr, yeah...so, Sieg Heil? (means 'Hail Victory' btw) LOL!...It's probably, more correct to call us...'Trumpeters'? LOL!

    Anyway, you cannot have vigorous, open political (or religious) debate without some heated words at times; Freedom of Speech, after all...as long as it doesn't get too personal and words are kept above the belt. Besides, not too many Snowflakes around here and if there are I'm sure they're melting.
     
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  15. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    I was shocked to see them breaking the windows of one of their temples!
     
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  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    1. No, I do not endorse or condone violent protest, but it's a nice way of smearing me with the inference that I might. It's kinda like the "when did you stop beating your wife" kind of loaded question. Loaded question - Wikipedia

    2. A passive aggressive assertion assuming that which is to be proven. I am able to critique Donaldo the Greatest, and his merry band of cabinet appointees, without being upset. Criticism can be offered, coolly, as much as with hot passion. Again, you're not responding to my criticism of Trump; you're just writing off the substance of what I have expressed, as being a mere emotional response on my part (to Trump's Presidency).

    3. Nice example of school yard sledging Urban Dictionary: sledge of the "yo momma wears army boots kind". I hope that American diplomats are better informed than your good self about Australia.

    Australia, as you evidently don't seem to be aware, is in fact a representative, bicameral, constitutional democracy structured along the lines of the Westminster system of parliamentary government. Westminster System: Key Political Terms | AustralianPolitics.com

    4. Another mistakenly coloured viewpoint, typical of the ill informed. Surprisingly as it might seem, health care is not (usually) free to Australian residents. Health care must be paid for, and the costs recovered. The public health system is paid for by taxpayers, partly by income tax contributions into consolidated revenue, and partly by contributions of 2% of one's income via the Medicare levy (with some conditional contribution concessions and exemptions allowable).Medicare levy

    Perhaps American refugees from the health system in America shouldn't keep coming to Australia for treatment, that is simply unaffordable in America. :p

    5. Without knowing what Income I earn, it makes no rational sense to suggest what my income tax obligations would be. :rolleyes: If anyone in Australia is paying a 75% rate of personal income tax, then they are paying more tax than they need to, and they are in want of good advice from a competent tax advisor.

    There are no State income taxes, but residents directly (as owners) or indirectly (as tenants) pay municipal rates for some local government functions and services. There is also an indirect Goods and Services tax, (the rate is variable according to the good or service provided) which largely funds State government functions. It's not so easy making direct comparisons between American and Australian tax burdens....

    However,
    USA Australia Source
    Tax burden (%) 19% 13% OECD
    Total taxation as % of GDP 30% 31% OECD

    Garry's Ruminations | Tips and Advice for Americans Moving or Relocating to Australia | Dr Garry's Terrace

    It would seem that commie Australia's tax burden is roughly comparable to, or less than that of commie Amerika. ;)

    6. The meme in my earlier post neither invokes Godwin's law Godwin's Law - RationalWiki, nor the charge of false equivalency. The OP has used the common Western trope of "The New Sherrif" in town who sweeps out the corruption and malfeasance of the former town Sherrif. It is too soon to tell whether or not Sherrif Drumpfe will actually be the ethical, lawfully upstanding person that his supporters imagine him to be. Like Klinton, Trump has his ethically dubious baggage with him....which may become as problematic for Trump when it gets unpacked in the White House, as much the same kinds of baggage would have been for Klinton, were she elected POTUS. I think it premature to be making any claims to Trump being a white hat Sherrif, come to clean up Dodge City....he may well make 1800's Dodge City, seem like a very peaceable, law abiding and ethical place.

    What Stg58 gets, and what you, apparently haven't gotten, is that the moral bankruptcy of a nation just doesn't happen overnight with the appointment of a "Dear Leader", but almost imperceptibly, bit, by bit over time....That Muslims, Mexicans, and others are presently the low fruit on Il Drumpfe's hit list, shouldn't necessarily be any more comforting to Americans, as might have been the case for a considerable proportion of German citizens in dealing with The Third Reich's declared racial and class enemies, such as Jews and socialists et al: For as Niemoller points out in the end (once the apparatus of State oppression had been fully enabled), when they came for Niemoller, there was nobody left (to safely) speak for him.

    7. :sleep: Meh....I see this comment as an expression of frustration on your part (and on the part of some others here). I sympathise. However, there are few limitations (in the COC) on what may be discussed, and by whom, on just about any topic. You don't get to dictate what topics I may choose to comment upon, or not... nor do I have that power over you. That being the case, the best we can do is deal with each other as amicably and as civilly as we can. The ignore option is within the power of each of us to invoke...not that I am encouraging, or discouraging its use in our case. :love:

    This has been a long and comprehensive reply, which is one of the disadvantages to the one who has been Gish galloped. Urban Dictionary: Gish Gallop
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
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  17. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    All I know is Chello carries a big paddle and loves to stir the pot!
    You can tell his search engine cry 's at night!
     
  18. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    If I was given a choice, I would whole heartedly take Australia's health care system to include its taxation for it any day of the week over America's. Americans just don't realize how screwed they are getting. You pay your taxes (when all figure is at least as high as the rest of the world) and what do you as a citizen get?.... Ask yourself why can every other 1st-world country in the world afford healthcare for its citizens, even little Belgium and The Netherlands yet the richest country in the world with a GDP twice a large as the next one? Why? Hell, our Death Rate is higher than China!...................... And, now I am contributing to Thread Drift.... I will sit down and continue to color.
     
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  19. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    During the WTO Riots in Seattle, the SnowFlakes broke windows out of the Planet Hollywood, there... Arnold & his Partners then HIRED some REALLY BIG Thugs, with BaseBall Bats, to stand out front, and keep folks away from the place.... NOBODY messed with them, again.... My youngest was in her "Liberal Phase" and was a Hostess there... Her commit to her mother was "Don't these Idiots KNOW, that some of us have to WORK, so we can pay our RENT?"
     
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