Ok can the collapse just happen before

Discussion in 'Politics' started by VisuTrac, May 5, 2011.

  1. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    the idiots in charge bankrupt everyone, driving them into ghettos in the big cities.

    I found a troubling draft of the Transportation Opportunities Act

    Troubling is that they are looking at Taxing by the mile as a way to augment the funding of they DOT. Section 2218 on page 167 of the Draft Act (damn thing is 499 pages)

    I want to know who came up with this shyte and thinks this is a good idea. They must have worked for the Nazis in WWII!

    What will happen will be that the land will be vacated between the big cities (the ghetto) and the country. People in the suburbs and the extraburbs will be forced to move into the city because they can not afford to drive. they will have to take public transportation to get to and from anywhere. So much easier for big bro to keep an eye on them.

    The area between the cities and the country will allow TPTB room to conduct business without fear of being seen or questioned. Maybe this should go into the tinfoil hat lounge because I am starting to see ulterior motives for a lot of what our gooberment has doing recently. I just hope the dollar collapses before they can enslave us.

    Well off to read the rest of that draft act. Only 300 more pages to go. woot
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    I have always thought that my temperment and sense of justice would indicate that I am a man born out of time. That I should have been born somewhere inbetween 100 and 200 years earlier. I have outlived my father. In fact I am older now than he was when he died. It seems the world moves closer and closer to that time when a native american or a mountain man trained in the way of the indian, would tie a rope to his leg, drive a stake in the ground and prepare himself mentally to meet his enemy. It would not be pretty no doubt, and he would take as many as possible before he would die from his many wounds. His final thoughts..... well, they won't easily forget me ..... I made the bastards pay dearly. ...... It was a good day to die. [gun]
    dragonfly and VisuTrac like this.
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    My god it reads like a End-user licensing agreement from M$

    The DOT provides apportioned funds to the states in the form of grants that have/are ::

    "(A) submitting, during the first fiscal year, an occupant
    protection plan;
    "(B) participating in the nationwide Click It or Ticket
    "(C) having an active network of child restraint inspection
    stations; and
    "(D) having a plan to recruit, train, and maintain a
    sufficient number of child passenger safety (CPS) technicians.
    "(2) A State with an observed seat belt use rate below 90 percent,
    based on the most recent survey data from a survey that conforms with
    NHTSA's national criteria, shall be eligible for a grant in a fiscal year by--
    "(A) meeting all of the requirements of paragraph (1); and
    "(B) to the satisfaction of the Secretary, meeting three of
    the following criteria:
    "(i) Conduct sustained (on-going and periodic) seat
    belt enforcement at a defined level of participation during
    the year.
    "(ii) Enact and enforce a Primary Enforcement Seat
    Belt Use Law.
    "(iii) Implement countermeasure programs for highrisk
    populations, such as drivers on rural roadways, or
    unrestrained nighttime drivers, or teenage drivers.
    "(iv) Enact and enforce occupant protection laws
    requiring front and rear occupant protection use by all
    occupants in an age-appropriate restraint.
    "(v) Implement a comprehensive occupant
    protection program, including conducting a program
    assessment, developing a Statewide Strategic Plan,
    designating an occupant protection coordinator, and
    establishing a statewide occupant protection task force.

    wait wait there is more ::
    "(A) High visibility enforcement.
    "(B) Paid and earned media in support of high visibility
    "(C) Court support of high visibility enforcement efforts.
    "(D) Alcohol ignition interlock programs.
    "(E) Improvement of blood-alcohol concentration (BAC)
    testing and reporting.
    "(F) Establishment of driving while intoxicated (DWI)
    "(G) Standardized field sobriety training (SFST), advanced
    roadside impaired driving evaluation (ARIDE), or drug recognition
    expert (DRE) training for law enforcement.
    "(H) Training and education of criminal justice
    professionals (including law enforcement, prosecutors, judges and
    probation officers) to assist such professionals in handling
    impaired driving cases.
    "(I) Traffic safety resource prosecutors.
    "(J) Judicial outreach liaisons.
    "(K) Equipment and related expenditures used in
    connection with impaired driving enforcement, including speed
    measurement devices, in accordance with criteria established by
    the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

    OMG there is still more ::
    "(c) ELIGIBILITY.--A State shall be eligible for a grant in a fiscal year if
    the State--
    "(1) enacts and enforces a law that prohibits a driver of a motor
    vehicle, while driving, from texting or text messaging;
    "(2) authorizes law enforcement officers to stop a motor vehicle
    and issue a traffic citation to a driver who is texting or text messaging
    while driving;
    "(3) provides the following minimum penalties for a driver who
    violates the State law described in paragraph (1):
    "(A) For the first offense, a minimum fine of $50.00 and
    action or points against driving privileges.
    "(B) For a second or subsequent offense, provides for
    minimum penalties as determined appropriate by the Secretary.
    "(C) For any offense that results in a death or serious
    injury, provides for minimum penalties as determined appropriate
    by the Secretary; and
    "(4) conducts education, awareness, and related activities to inform
    the public about the safety risks associated with texting or text messaging
    while driving.

    so basically they get paid to have the plans, for the cost of enforcement and they get to keep the fines. Sure, that will keep the cops from looking at the general population as a revenue stream too.


    On a good note, they did increase the fines for the Mexican drivers bringing over dilapidated / dangerous vehicles. Heck they can even immobilize them. Wonder if they are using the same stuff they used with cash for clunkers .. LOL.

    blah blah
    grant money for R&D,
    upload your data to a central government database WTF?

    COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS DEPLOYMENT. (I don't care my next car is going to have points and a carburator)

    8 billion here, 2 billion there, oh this group need 20 billon, those guys, another 22 billion, and how about 15 billion for flexible investment opportunities and oh yeah, them enforcement grants.

    Well, I just found about 80 billion of our hard earned tax dollars at work. Least I know where some of it is going now.

    I'm sure that when some big honking document like this is voted on, the numb nuts have read every single word, understand what it means with clarity and can provide a synopsis of the budgetary request that would actually be half right. Bwahahahaha, sometimes I crack my self up.

    Ok, my brain and eyes are killing me. If that thing ever comes to fruition (the pay for mile part) , dont worry about the open meetings ::

    (A) OPEN MEETINGS.--Interested persons shall be permitted to
    attend meetings of the Group or file statements with the Group, subject to
    any reasonable rules or regulations that may be prescribed.
    (B) AVAILABILITY OF RECORDS.--The records, reports,
    transcripts, minutes, appendices, working papers, drafts, studies, agenda,
    or other documents which are made available to or prepared for or by the
    Group shall be made available to the public.
    Undated USDOT draft reauthorization bill Obtained by Transportation Weekly
    (C) LIMITATION.--The requirements of this paragraph shall not
    apply if the Secretary determines that it is in the public interest that such
    meeting or information should be closed to the public in order to prevent
    the disclosure of matters that--
    (i) should be kept secret in the interest of national defense
    or foreign policy;
    (ii) are specifically exempted from disclosure by statute;
    (iii) involve trade secrets and commercial or financial
    information that are obtained from a person and are privileged or
    confidential; or
    (iv) would likely frustrate the purposes of the Surface
    Transportation Revenue Alternatives Office.

    Sure pissed off Americans aren't going to frustrate those holding the meetings. Yep you are right, they will probably be behind closed doors.

    Now where is that Bacardi 151, Hmm, I wonder if I can run my truck on that, I wonder.

    Piece owt !
  4. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Just the next step in taking
    what we don't protect .
  5. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    you're describing Utopia. What, you don't want that? :)
  6. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    I would LOVE to see electric car drivers have to pay a road-use tax that is currently added in my fuel purchases.

    The fair thing to do is to eliminate fuel tax and have a mileage tax. Will that happen? Probably not. They'll probably keep the fuel tax and add the mileage tax.

    Where do you live that you don't already have seat belt, mobile phone and texting laws?
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    -Mobile phone law was struck down in one community in PA.
    -I don't want a mileage tax because that will require some sort of tracking device on my vehicle. Dot gov does not need to know which grocery store I use, nor how often I go to the range.
    -Check this out Americans For Fair Taxation:
  8. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Certain movers&shakers in the Dot-Gov have wanted to move all citizens into their so-called "Smart Cities" since the 70's. Big Algore was a prime member of that august group. He wants to take our cars and trucks away from us - then we get coralled in these glorified ghettos.
    We see the beginnings in the various 'bedroom communities' springing up, with housing, employment, entertainment, shopping, recreation, etc..... ALL within the tight-knit 'community'. Just walk, ride a bike or motor around in a golfcart to get to where ya need to go. Then, the inmates..... uh.... citizens... have no reason to want to go anywhere, right? :rolleyes:
    VisuTrac likes this.
  9. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    No we have the seat belt and texting laws (no mobile law yet) but what i find is that the federal govt is paying the states to enforce these laws plus they get to keep the fines (double dipping to me), they give them assets like breathalizers, NV equip (or at least the monies to purchase).

    I think we've become a nanny state. warnings that the contents is hot, sitting too close to the airbag is dangerous, that the spinning blade under your mower can slice your fingers and toes off if placed under deck while engine is running. OMG! If you are that stupid, please don't breed! Seems as if we are trying to fight Darwinism.

    Anyway, the popo's enforce the government edict, get to make up a fine that meet the minimum set by the secretary but it can be higher, the feds will provide you with funding and special prosecutors to address the problems in your area, fund the hiring of additionally officers so you can write more citations to collect more fines .. erm, And i am looking at my tax statement, I'm paying for police and fire protection too. So WTF! I need to get me one of these gooberment jobs, sounds like they are really sweet.

    The police in my area stake out the backroads and transit roads through the county, and pick off speeders (over by 4-5mph your getting tagged). And when called about local teenagers pilfering from cars, it took them two days to send an officer. Yeah, Great service. I'm surprised it wasn't a call center in India

    Ok, anyway, i've digressed enough. The government, as I see it is wanting to tax ever single thing we do and or own. To extract ever last cent so they can transfer it to someone else, like Pakistan or Deutsche Bank! Oh pay no attention to me, I'm just pissed that I'll never collect the 10's of thousands i've blown on the lottery scheme called Social Security. Carry on!
  10. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Remember, for every stupid law/warning (like don't place plastic bag over your head or you could suffocate!), someone WAS stupid enough to do it. They or their families (if Darwinism DID work) then carried on a lawsuit and won. So, our fine politicians, seizing the opportunity to let the stinking masses see them "doing something about the problem" crafted that silly law.
    Our legal and political processes working working hand-in-glove.
    I don't need a warning of "HOT COFFEE!" on my McDee's cup, but apparently someone did........ :rolleyes:
    Same with our antigun laws, and others that encroach on our liberties. Someone did somethingstupid, and the politicos jump up with a fine new law - never mind the thirtyseven others that cover the SAME infraction. Crafting laws is the only metric that politicians have to show they are 'working' and 'doing something' other than watching porn or playing solitaire on their PCs in the Senate or House chambers......... [LMAO]
  11. Yoldering

    Yoldering Monkey+++

    They were discussing that mileage tax on local news radio today. I really don't like the idea. Because once the federal gov decides to to ahead with this you know the state and local governments will follow. All of the extra costs to shipping companies/other will be passed along to the customers and we will be paying even more!
  12. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    I myself personally love the "DO not use in shower or bathtub" warning on hair driers. You know, I have a theory. If these warnings were removed, the population would quickly decimate, therefore depleting the taxpayer base. Politicians cannot have THAT happening. So, these safety warnings are the Politico's way of keeping his voter base solid!
    dragonfly, Seawolf1090 and Gray Wolf like this.
  13. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    We already have the "stupid motorist law" here in Arizona...
    BUT, I'd love to see one that says no jerks, idiots, morons, illegals, etc., operating ANY motorized vehicle!
    But then that would tend to eliminate the "natural law of selection" aka: "survival of the fittest"!
    "There oughtta be a law" ( remember that oldie?)
  14. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    i wonder how thatwill affect bicycles and horse drawn carriages
  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Well I don't quite know, but I did have an adult cousin who was arrested for speeding in town on a bicycle, and another time for being drunk while riding one. That was in Yellow Springs, Ohio. We also had Amish, and horse drawn carriages, ..... I never saw one bothered by the police.... ever.
  16. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    US hits credit limit, setting up 11-week fight
    US hits credit limit, setting up 11-week fight - Yahoo! News

    By PAUL WISEMAN, AP Economics Writer – Mon May 16, 6:14 pm ET

    WASHINGTON – The government has maxed out its credit card.

    The United States reached its $14.3 trillion limit on federal borrowing Monday, leaving Congress 11 weeks to raise the threshold or risk a financial panic or another recession.

    Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner formally notified Congress that the government would halt its investments in two federal pension plans so it won't exceed the borrowing limit.

    Geithner said the government could get by with bookkeeping maneuvers like that through Aug. 2. After that, the government could default on its debt for the first time, threatening the national credit rating and the dollar.

    Geithner sent Congress a letter saying he would be unable to make the pension investments in full. He urged Congress to raise the debt limit "in order to protect the full faith and credit of the United States and avoid catastrophic economic consequences for citizens."

    Republican leaders in the House have said they won't raise the debt limit unless the Obama administration first agrees to big spending cuts or to steps to lower the debt over the long run.

    House Speaker John Boehner repeated the pledge in a statement Monday. The statement did not address Geithner's warning about what would happen if the limit were not raised.

    "Americans understand we simply can't keep spending money we don't have," Boehner said. "There will be no debt limit increase without serious budget reforms and significant spending cuts."

    Republicans have also ruled out any tax increases, including any plans to end tax cuts for high earners enacted in 2001 and 2003.

    "We need to have a vote to lift the debt ceiling because the consequences of not doing so would be quite serious," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters. "And those who suggest otherwise are whistling past the graveyard."

    If it doesn't raise the limit, Congress would have to come up with $738 billion to make up for what it planned to borrow through the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30. The options are drastic: Cut 40 percent of the budget through September, which might mean defaulting on payments to investors in government bonds; raise taxes immediately; or some combination of the two.

    "In the economic area, this is the equivalent of nuclear war," says Edward Knight, who was the Treasury Department's general counsel during a standoff over the debt ceiling in the mid-1990s.

    Here are some questions and answers about the federal debt limit:

    Q: What is the debt ceiling?

    A: It's a legal limit on how much debt the government can pile up. The government accumulates debt two ways: It borrows money from investors by issuing Treasury bonds, and it borrows from itself, mostly from Social Security revenue.

    In 2010, Congress raised the limit to nearly $14.3 trillion from $12.4 trillion. Three decades ago, the national debt was $908 billion. But Washington spent more than it took in, and the debt rose steadily — surpassing $1 trillion in 1982, then $5 trillion in 1996. It reached $10 trillion in 2008 as the financial crisis and recession dried up tax revenue and as the government spent more on unemployment benefits and other programs.

    Congress created the debt limit in 1917. It's unique to the United States. Most countries let their debts rise automatically when government spending outpaces tax revenue. Raising the debt ceiling doesn't usually create much of a stir. Congress has raised it 10 times since 2001.

    A refusal to raise the debt ceiling wouldn't mean that Congress had begun to solve the nation's budget problems. It would just mean that lawmakers were refusing to let the government borrow more money to finance programs and tax cuts already approved.

    "Having voted to run up the bill, it is utterly irresponsible to prohibit the government from borrowing the money to pay it," writes Howard Gleckman, resident fellow at the Urban Institute.


    Q: What is the federal debt, and how does it differ from the deficit?

    A: The deficit is how much government spending exceeds tax revenue during a year. The government is expected to run a record $1.5 trillion deficit in the current fiscal year. The debt is the sum of deficits past and present. If Congress raises the limit, the debt will reach $15.5 trillion by Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year. The huge deficits and debt reflect tax cuts, wars, the Obama administration's stimulus program, higher costs of federal health care programs and the recession, which shrank tax revenue and led the government to spend more on social programs.


    Q: What happens now that Treasury has hit its debt limit?

    A: It can free up $232 billion by taking what Geithner calls "extraordinary measures." Besides suspending contributions to federal employee pension funds, the government can halt payments to a government fund that buys and sells foreign currencies.

    The most serious debt-ceiling showdown was in 1995. At the time, the debt limit was just $4.9 trillion. Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin used gimmicks and juggled the government's books to keep government finances afloat for four and a half months before Congress and the Clinton White House reached a deal to end the impasse.

    Geithner's Treasury Department won't have as much cushion because the debt is growing much faster than in the mid-1990s. Geithner estimates he'll run out of options Aug. 2.


    Q: What would happen if Congress doesn't raise the debt ceiling by Aug. 2 or whenever Treasury exhausts all its short-options?

    A: Things would get ugly fast. "When bills became due, we could not pay all of them," says Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Budget, a bipartisan group that advocates cutting the debt. "If that happens, you shake up markets as you've never seen before. ... It's inconceivable we would willingly walk ourselves over the cliff."

    The government needs to borrow $738 billion to get through the fiscal year that ends Sept. 30, according to the Congressional Research Service. Somehow, it would have to close that gap. It could:

    • Cut government spending dramatically. To put things in context, $738 billion is equal to 40 percent of the $1.7 trillion that the government is expected to spend in the last six months of the fiscal year. Everything from military salaries to Medicare and Social Security benefits to interest payments on the debt would be vulnerable.

    • Come up with $738 billion in new tax revenue, increasing by 66 percent the $1.1 trillion the government is expected to collect in taxes in the second half of the fiscal year.

    • Choose a combination of draconian spending cuts and tax increases.

    If investors become convinced the U.S. will renege on its debts, they'll sell Treasurys to avoid the risk that the government might not make good on them. That would drive Treasury prices down and push interest rates up, raising the borrowing costs on everything from mortgages to cars. Higher rates would likely slow the economy.

    So far, bond investors are taking the threat in stride; the yield on 10-year Treasury notes remains low at 3.17 percent. U.S. Treasurys are still considered perhaps the safest available investment, a haven for investors worldwide.

    As Aug. 2 approaches, there's a bigger risk that investors will become nervous.

    "It would tell the world that the U.S. can't get its act together, that this is basically a circus," says William Gross, an influential investor who is managing director of the world's biggest bond fund, Pimco. "Investors ultimately won't want to be held hostage by a bunch of clowns."


    Q: If the consequences are so dire, why is Congress suggesting it might not raise the limit?

    A: As the political divide between Republicans and Democrats has widened, the debt ceiling has emerged as a divisive issue. In recent years, the party that doesn't control the White House has used the issue to whack the party that does.

    In 2006, for instance, Senate Democrats voted unanimously against raising the debt limit for President George W. Bush to protest his tax cuts and the invasion of Iraq — a vote that President Barack Obama, then a senator, says he regrets. The situation reversed in 2010: No Senate Republicans supported a higher debt limit for Obama, accusing him of reckless government spending. Congress approved the higher limit anyway because Democrats had a majority in both the House and Senate.

    Congress has always ended up raising the debt ceiling before a financial crackup.

    Republicans, many of them elected in November on a pledge to slash spending, are betting that the debt-ceiling deadline offers leverage to demand deep budget cuts from the Obama administration.

    Obama wants to narrow the federal gaps and reduce debts, in part by reducing spending, in part by ending tax cuts for higher-income Americans enacted under President George W. Bush. But Republican lawmakers say they refuse to consider tax hikes.
  17. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Exceeding the 'debt limit' does NOT mean economic ruin immediately. It just means our borrowing will be at an increased interest rate.
    So the Goobermint uses 'creative accounting' methods........

    We'd be jailed if we did that. [stirpot]
    VisuTrac likes this.
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