Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stg58, Dec 4, 2016.
75 years on and it seems another is in our future.
Pearl Harbor 75th Commemoration
It was just a friendly telephone call....what could go wrong??
i was stationed aboard ship across from the Arizona for three years. Morning colors were never so moving as they were then.
Bless those boys at Pearl, and all of the 400,000 US military dead in WW2.
Yes. Whoever said time heals all wounds lied.
A day that I hope we never forget, as a nation!! The wolves are always sitting in the treeline waiting for their moment to strike.
My dad's uncle, "Bud" Smith, heavyweight boxing champ of the Pacific Fleet, was in the Arizona's galley having breakfast when the first bombs struck. He survived that, and the rest of the war. Dad was drafted into the Army in 42, 80th ID, ETO. I always half staff my flag on 12/7 in memory of not only Pearl Harbor, but also America's struggle and sacrifice for victory in WWII. I am also shocked by how many people ask me why the flag is at half staff.
This has led me to become the local "unofficial" history teacher, having people over for episodes of "Victory At Sea" and "World At War". They usually are stunned at the scope of the war and I often hear "I had no idea...". What was a few paragraphs in a High School history book becomes grim reality when viewed in the old black and white newsreel films that compose the bulk of these old but instructive films.
Most of the American WWII vets are now gone, but they, along with their sacrifices, should never be forgotten.
Had an uncle on the West Virginia, was blown overboard, in a coma for a few days, had lung problems until he died, and he lost most of his close friends when it was sunk. Dead now but he never celebrated Pearl Harbor day and he was always very quiet on that day. In 1944 Mom had all 3 of her brothers in the war, 1 in Navy, and 2 in merchant marine. Didn't have a TV, but always said a prayer for them at every meal along with the blessing. Must have helped as all 3 returned home. Freedom never has been and never will be free.
Yes! And it's time for a few 9 gun salvos on the tree line!!!
Ol' Mo sittin there all purty, still has a lot of life in them Big !6's left for that 9 gun salvo! I have had the honor of steeping aboard her 3 times in my life, once in Bremerton, once when she visited Astoria, and finally at Pearl for her current assignment! Nothing more sobering then to stand on her bridge and look over the U.S.S. Arizona! Rest In Peace!
The Arizona Memorial is one of the strongest memories I have of my one and only visit to Hawaii. It was sobering to hear the stories, read the plaques and notice that people were all but silent during the boat ride (both ways) and on the Memorial itself. Almost as reverent as the vast majority who visit the Vietnam Memorial in DC.
Odd thing about those who I saw visiting the Arizona. Even the kids, snowflakes and rowdies we're subdued and respectful! That was pretty cool! I'm sure it was over the second their feet touched the dock, but it was a little hearting! I asked my grandson (12)what he thought about the experience and basically it was the number of dead. I took a little time to add to the history of the event with him.
Let's not forget that Pearl S. Buck wrote the book on how to attack Pearl Harbor and the gov't not only ignored it, they keep any remedies from being put in place to stop it. Also the communist war criminal FDR not only knew it was going to take place, he refused to allow any thing to be done to stop or hinder it. Every one of those dead sailors and soldiers died on the alter of world wide communism/the NWO so FDR could make the world safe for communism, which was of course, the ultimate goal. Just like Hitlery allowed four Americans to die in Benghazi. What does it matter, at this point, anyway Hitlery?!
Wow. We need some sources for that load. When was Buck's book published, and what was the title? This is so far out there, it should be in the TFH.
close associate was a bomber radio man... bombed german subs then went to the pacific.. wouldn't talk about it. would buy a german vehicle... wouldn't consider a jap vehicle... I read " flyboys".. (I think was title) talked of the japs eating captured airmen.. I went to associate to ask, "did you guys know that the japs would eat you if you were shot down and captured?" he started turning red and arms/fists were tightening. "sure we knew! that woman on the radio would brag about it..." and he described her announcement in detail.
I never knew this growing up. I never read it in the history books.
but it helped me understand better what this warrior had experienced and had to deal with.
God bless those men and women who fought to protect our nation.
just think... some of those d--- japs became leaders in industry as we rebuilt japan. their sons (sons of cannibals) are now captains of industry.
Well... given the track record of our current POTUS... would not be overly surprised if he apologized for America declaring war after... guess we'll see...
There is a strong body of evidence pointing to American foreknowledge of the attack on Pearl.
One point that really stands out in my memory is that Chesty Puller, Major USMC, was transferred out of China and sent to Pearl in August 1941. In Pearl he was given command of all Marine machinegun units, which at the time played an anti-aircraft role. He was shocked to discover the MG's were all crated up, packed in cosmoline, and sitting in the armory. He ordered them out, cleaned, assembled, put into position, and began machinegun training of the crews. This raised the ire of Naval brass, and they arranged for his transfer to the mainland for another command. This is from the book - MARINE! THE LIFE OF CHESTY PULLER which I read about 40 years ago.
On Jan., 27, 1941, Joseph C. Grew, senior ambassador to Japan, wired Washington and stated that the Japanese were actively planning an attack on Pearl Harbor.
In April, 1941, operation MAGIC cracks the Imperial Japanese code. Washington begins to read diplomatic cables and military Japanese radio traffic. Much of the information obtained is not shared with Admiral Kimmel and General Short, CINPAC, in Hawaii.
Nov., 27, 1941, Admiral Kimmel and General Short receive a "war warning" from Washington, stating that a Japanese attack on an American target in the Pacific is likely.
That's the long story short version, as there is much more available for the astute scholar. It is also to be noted that Japan was already at war, having invaded northern China, Manchuria, in 1937, and had also invaded French Indochina (Vietnam) in 1940. Most modern historians feel that the global war now known as WWII - began with the Japanese invasion of China in 1937. Remember also the US Army General Billy Mitchell, who was demoted to permanent rank of Colonel in 1925 after infuriating the Department of the Navy when proving that airplanes could be used effectively against battleships, which he had sunk in testing in the early 20's. The writing was on the wall, but ignored, that battleships were no longer the Queen of naval warfare, with the nod being given to the new aircraft carrier warships.
It's all politics, and war is hell. As a soldier you are expendable for whatever reason your superiors deem necessary. I view Pearl Harbor as a Draw Fire mission, where the brass didn't really expect the spectacular success the Japanese obtained and had to play some massive CYA after the event, but enough evidence remains to show foreknowledge of an impending attack in the higher circles of command in Washington. In a similar situation, Churchill had to let the city of Coventry be firebombed by the German Luftwaffe in 1940 to avoid exposing that the British had cracked the ENIGMA code of the Germans, and knew of the massive air attack on the way, but couldn't warn the citizens who suffered terribly in it.
What is scarry about all that is in the next big machine war conflict, will our Brass be fighting the last big war, and miss the technological advances made in mass destruction? They sure do seem to love those old rusty aircraft carriers which could prove to be fossils of another age in a modern war of missiles.
Anyways, just to leave you with a thought, here is the front page of the Hilo, Hawaii newspaper from a week before the event...
I'm well aware that there is a body of evidence that some foreknowledge and intelligence of the potential for attack on HI existed. Also aware that it was, rightly or wrongly, mostly discounted and ignored. But for anyone to baldly claim that PSB wrote out the attack scenario is beyond absurd. Also, to claim that FDR and others knew ahead in enough time to prepare an active defense posture is just off the plain of reason. (Yes, we know that the military posture in HI at the time was criminally ignored by the command.) Even if a commie, as alleged in some circles, FDR did not embrace communism, which at the time wasn't even of particular concern where fascism and nazism were in the forefront. Sure, FDR leaned heavily toward socialism. Granted, socialism could and did morph into totalitarian communism in some areas (think Russia earlier) it did not exist in that form anywhere else, possibly excepting Iberia. It was VERY useful, in fact, for the US and Soviet Russia to ally against Germany and Italy (and incidentally, Japan.)
Legion489 has yet to show me facts supporting his statements; with the experience I have, I'd question any that were presented.
I suspect that FDR did know Japan would attack, and it was used as a way to enter WWII. We even had one of the very first Radar units set up on the NW shore, but when it detected the incoming planes it was so large of a radar return that they discounted it as anything more than seagulls.
I enjoyed the movie "Pearl Harbor", I loved how they had Jeeps and deuce and halfs all over the island before they were barely in production.
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