Potential transportation game changer?

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by Airtime, Nov 29, 2016.


  1. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    This is interesting. Until now, the long haul trucking industry (the mainstay for American commerce) has been built on the foundation of diesel powered class 8 semi-trucks. This, if Musk's technology works out, could be a major shift in that industry. The interesting thing for prepping is what spin-off technologies and hacked systems could become available for off-grid living?

    https://nikolamotor.com/pdfs/Nikola30days.pdf
    Nikola Motor Company | Premium Electric Vehicles

    This could be very cool... I see all kinds of potential for off-grid life. Melbo might be hooking his wind turbines to hydrogen generators and compressors down the road.

    AT
     
    Ura-Ki, Bandit99 and Aeason like this.
  2. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Wow! This is a game changer which affects so many things that I do not know where to start! If what they are saying is true then these hydrogen-powered electric motors could be turned into local generators for off grid living with the only unanswered question being 'can a person make enough hydrogen cost effectively to be self-sufficient?' For, if they can power a fully loaded semi 800-1200 miles...

    Now, obviously this Nikola Motor Company is a look-alike of Tesla but they are going after the trucking industry. What I find a bit hard to swallow is that is appears they gotten a huge step on Tesla concerning their battery pack. So, we'll see in a few more days... I did check for a stock symbol but it appears that they have not gone public yet.
     
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I'm not going to hold my breath on this one, but there is a lot of promise. FWIW, the energy density of hydrogen on a pound basis, is no where near as high as gasoline or diesel, so to get the same range of operation there will be a lot more tare weight to account for. That could be trivial in the economic scheme of things, but might become significant if the storage pressure tanks get heavy. (And they certainly will if that is the way they go.)
     
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    and what happens in an Wreck, when that Pressure Tank is breached, and there is a Spark..... KaBOOOOOM... Big Time....
     
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  5. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid RIP 11-8-2018

    Soooo, how much of a drop in freight rates will we see?

    I predict zero.
     
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  6. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Sadly,( Fortunately) This technology has all ready bees surpassed! I cannot say the how or why yet, but Ura-Ki has seen the true Power revolution and it's not fuel dependent at any level! 100% regenerating self contained power that WILL change the entire world! Why have we not seen this yet? Oil companies strangle hold over us, and the Fed subsidies on corn to fuel production! We also have the huge investments into tech that isn't any better then what it replaces, so we gotta fund what we see now, instead of what the future holds in the minds and hands of those few who can envision beyond established ideas! Some day, my fellow primates, Some day!!!
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Pure rubbish until it is published. Why do I suspect a violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics? We get these frequently, promises of the impossible that never shows itself in daylight.
     
  8. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Not so much. The H2 is held in a matrix. Saw a test where a tank was set alight with diesel oil and shot with a 44 Mag (fun!).

    A weak little blue flame was all that came out of the tank. A lot work still going on - in Utah of all places.
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Hydrogen indeed burns with a weak blue flame (or not so weak depending) that is relatively cool. If mixed properly with oxygen, you get a really hot flame suitable for cutting metals and drilling blast holes in taconite. That test was not a pressure tank. One of the research items with hydrogen is just along those lines. The idea is solution at atmospheric pressures, or not a lot higher similar to how acetylene is dissolved in acetone. The current problem with that is finding a solvent that is sorta safe last I knew. Commercial gaseous hydrogen is stored in very high pressure cylinders, and barring a complete rupture of the tanks, all you get is something similar to BLEVE. There are some liquefied hydrogen transport schemes that use some of the off gas to power compressors and chillers to prevent boiling off of product. There may be some stationary storage that is still in use (as for commercial generator cooling) but I don't know for sure about that.

    Here are some over the road transport trailers for hydrogen.
    hydrogen tank trailer - Google Search
    Notice the size of the cylinders in most of the pix. They are relatively small to allow for controlling leakage in the even of rupture, and thus the amount of fuel that would necessarily be burnt off if a fire started. While the trailer is on the road, each of the bottles is valved separately from all the others. The larger tanks are cryo, I think, except the big yellow tank is for a stationary application, not transport.
     
  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    If it can't be done with natural gas then there isn't much chance hydrogen will do any better.

    Everything to do with hydrogen is more expensive, more dangerous and more difficult when compared to natural gas.
     
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    If all it make is a little blue flame then the media or fluid that holds the hydrogen has a more or less useless withdrawal rate with out a gigantic tank. To power a big hungry powerful fuel cell will require nearly 1lb of hydrogen per minute.
    Then if the media or liquid or is slow to release then it's going to be even slower to reabsorb hydrogen.
     
  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Well the press release shows this will be going no where fast.
     
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    The Nicolia truck uses a Hydrogen fueled Turbine Generator to keep the Operating Batteries Chatged... there is NO Hydrogen FuelCell Technology involved....
     
    Cruisin Sloth likes this.
  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    My bad I read a article saying this news release might be for a fuel cell.
    Powering a gas turbine with hydrogen makes no sense.
     
  15. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Turbo Diesel is likely more efficient....
     
    Yard Dart likes this.
  16. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    It was a great idea until the inclusion of hydrogen.
    Which means fueling inferstructure does not exist.
    Then the idea of making renewable hydrogen that doesn't exist.
    Making hydrogen is very expensive, making renewable hydrogen is even more expensive.
    Then refrigerating to a liquid is even more expensive.
    At this point you have to be replacing diesel fuel for around $10 a gallon.
     
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Personally, I like the concept of fuel cells, put in the (hydrogen) fuel, get the reaction started and take electricity away. Leaves water as an exhaust product if hydrogen is the fuel. (Other fuels can be used, catalyst dependent.) There are some size and weight barriers to fuel cells in mobile applications to go along with the weight penalties of fuel storage.

    Nikola motors has some ideas worth work to make into reality; there are some obstacles that have to be overcome. Maybe they've done it already and just haven't told the world because the corporation has told them not to.
     
  18. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I believe that it is possible .
     
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