Scenario - Instant Family

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TailorMadeHell, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    I think these will help point out things that we haven't considered. Here's another for you. Purely hypothetical and not yet my experience.

    You are loaded down, family in tow and you are suddenly ambushed. Bullets start flying. In the heat of the moment you are pumped. Your battle haze is on. You find two targets that are firing at you, trying to waylay you to take your stuff. Your skills prove to be no match for the would-be attackers, a man and a woman. You successfully eliminate them without you being harmed. You run back to your family to check if they are alright. Your adrenaline is decreasing. Everyone is okay. No damage other than rattled nerves. While you are making sure all is right again, you see two very young kids walk out of the woodline. They are dirty, look hungry and crying over the bodies of the man and woman. You find out from them that they have no other family. What do you do?
    Aeason, Motomom34 and chelloveck like this.
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Depends on how young.... Under 8 years, you take them with you.... Over 8, you have to decide, if they will cause you more grief, than they add, to your already Bad Situation....
    Ganado, chelloveck and TailorMadeHell like this.
  3. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Start by tying them up, and looting the bodies. Gain intel.

    From there, I would have to consider our situation, the age and demeanor of the children, plus anything else I find on the "parents(?)". I would have to say that it ain't looking good for them.
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Wow! Good scenario.... First, you said "two very young kids" so since they are walking and seem to understand what just happened, I am going to make the assumption that they are between and 5-10 years old.
    Let me tell you that I spent the last hour thinking about this...

    First, I said I would take them if they were that age group and might even make them go with me depending on their exact age. I also said that if they were early teens that I would not take them as they are too unpredictable and want revenge some night. I'd leave them with what their parents had (wouldn't strip the bodies) tell them that I would 'shoot them on sight' if I saw them within 200 meters of us...

    But, now.... I think the correct answer would be to leave them. BUT, I am not sure I could do it but it would definitely depend on the situation: were they part of a larger group, where are they staying, what is our food situation, are we in bandit country (children are loud and slow), are we in rural, wilderness or city surrounding, etc...the devil is in the details. I wouldn't have a problem with shooting a boy soldier, even executing one, but leaving a 5 year old in the wilderness would be...difficult.
    Dunerunner, Tikka, Aeason and 3 others like this.
  5. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    This is one of my fears. Similar situation dirty thin destitute woman walks up to the gate carrying a half dead child starving to death. what do you do?? I dont even want to think about this scenario. I pray I never have to be in this situation.
  6. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Where am I going, why am I on the move with the family in tow..... much more to factor and without more information being available, I don't think I could make a call on how I would react. Am I going to the farm where I could use an extra set of hands, do I have ample food, what are my security risk and so on.....

    I think in general though, I would not leave a kid less than 10, alone in the woods to fend for themselves.... their parents made the stupid decision to get killed.... not the kids. Now a teenager that showed any signs of anger...absolutely a factor and most likely they are going on alone.
  7. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    And, then the real problem is not the giving them something to eat, it's what happens afterwards: Does she come back or bring friends or criminal elements or simply tell others...soon you got line outside you gate. All dirty and all half starved... A simple case of 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.' Yeah, a horror story...
  8. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    There is the safe answer and the human answer. Like others the age of the children and external factors come in to play, so there is no hard and fast answer. Like others I would tend towards taking in younger children, and anyone older might get some sort of supplies left with them depending on their circumstances and attitudes. If I chose to leave any behind I would at least send them assistance if it were possible from down the road. I'm well past the child raising age, but could do so if needed, however would prefer to find them a home with other children they could relate to and integrate with.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Age, again. Young ones, I feed, and take to the nearest church. (There will be churches as long as there is a need for one. ) I've just taken away thier parents, and thier chance at survival, so in effect, if I leave them, I've killed them too.
    The church has a long history of orphans. The weapons I keep, and all ammo, to replace what was expended.
    Hungry kids may have been why they attacked. (YMMV)
    Gator 45/70, Aeason, T. Riley and 4 others like this.
  10. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Yes, the human answer is a tough one. The one thing, that in any situation, we must hang on to is our humanity. You had to shoot a thief, MZB or such and you feel bad. It was right to defend you and yours, though the moment we feel joy about it means our humanity is lost. It separates the good from the bad. These scenarios are meant to make you aware of the hard choices that may have to be made. It is one thing to be prepared physically or material supplies, though do not forget your mental preps. If you embrace religion, make sure you have your spiritual guide to help you through.

    If wanted I could throw in more details and we could keep going on this topic though I threw it out as something to think on. You have to weigh your safety, supplies and future actions on one instance. That is what it will be like. Is every stranger with a weapon an enemy? Will your good deeds make you a target? Can you let children starve or wander alone? All questions for you, your loved ones and your group to discuss.
  11. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    I would take them with me only as far as necessary to turn them over to someone who would take them in. Church, authorities, local government, .... whatever. I would do everything I could to conceal our names, how we were related, our intended destination, etc from them. I would consider future covert observation of how they were adapting and growing, to include pictures for instant id by all members of my tribe. In the future if I encountered them in my AO, to say the least they would be considered potential hostiles.
    Gator 45/70 and chelloveck like this.
  12. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have said many many times that a world ending scenario with starving people and such has no romantic part at all. It will be a horrible , horrible time with people dying all around you. Disease, rape, murdering, even cannibalism . For that reason alone I thought the movie Viggo mortisen did called The Road was spot on in how bad it could get.
  13. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    The premise for The Road was STUPID, but they got some things right.
  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It's an interesting hypothetical, and until one is actually confronted in real life with the situation, it is purely speculative as to what one might, or might not do. All one can do is to work to some guiding principles....

    1. The location must be secured against any threats to your own family / group. That means that the re-org phase of the fight continues until the group establishes a defensive perimeter, and it is positively established that there are no further armed hostiles in the immediate vicinity, even if that requires placing the young "kids" temporarily under restraint, placed separately, and blind folded. The captives must remain silent.. The child captives should be guarded, for their protection, and the protection of your group, away from view of any corpses. Captives should be humanely treated and any injuries attended to. Captives should be given access to water, and depending on circumstances and the availability of resources food, with priority given to their group's food.

    2. Hostiles' weapons and ammunition should be removed and rendered safe, and any bodies should be respectfully, but thoroughly searched for any concealed weapons....preferably males searching males and females searching females.

    3. Depending on the likely threat level caused by the incident, The site should be quickly policed for any stores, documents, weapons, ammunition (including empty shell cases) and equipment and deposited in a central location. Finds should be inspected for any information of intelligence value as to where the hostile band came from, were going to, what they had been doing along the way, what their future intentions were, and what role their children played in their activities. Do any of the effects found indicate evidence of looting / burglary / murder or other violent crime?

    4. The captives should be questioned as for paragraph 3. The captives should be interrogated separately and thoroughly, particularly on their experiences along the routes that they had taken, their knowledge of other people in the area (hostiles or otherwise) and questioned about anything that might confirm or disconfirm intelligence gleaned from an examination of the corpses, equipment or personal effects of the hostile band. The captives should not be abused as a means of extracting information.

    5. If the adult corpses actually are the children's parents or close kin, then, depending on a risk assessment of the situation, the corpses should be given a decent burial and the children be afforded the opportunity of at least ritually saying farewell to them...showing such respect, to them and their deceased kin, may help reduce any residual resentment over the death of their kin, and serve to reduce the psychological trauma that they may be experiencing at the time. This is a best possible case situation. having gone through a short but decisive fire-fight, may well be attracting unwanted attention from elsewhere. Safety and security of one's own kith and kin transcends the needs of others.

    6. Personally, I would not abandon young children incapable of caring for themselves. I would be inclined to care for them pro tem, using primarily the resources that came from their group's possessions.

    7. Apart from weapons and ammunition (which I would consider spoils of war) and any items that have clearly been gained by illegal means, the residual items belong to the children. The children retain on their person anything that has survival value that won't slow them or the group down and that won't be a danger to the group. Otherwise, the surplus stuff that is too bulky or too heavy for the children to carry can either be cached with or near the corpses, or bartered with other members of the group for more portable items of value. Highly portable items of high value, (precious metals, jewelry etc) and anything that would appear to have been gained by looting or other illegal means, may be given to the church or institution that will agree to caring for the orphans that were left as a result of their kin's poor judgement. It may help the organisation that cares for them to continue with their work.

    8. I would not be inclined to retain guardianship of the children fostered temporarily, any longer than it would be necessary for them to be placed in some other safe and secure environment that was capable of protecting the childrens' interests. Keeping them long term is fraught with potential risks that my group of preppers / survivors could well do without. My group did not ask to be attacked, and the death of our attackers implies no obligations to their survivors beyond basic humanity. The children should be treated fairly, humanely, and their dignity respected. Doing less than that is to descend into the realms of inhumanity, that hopefully any self respecting person would hope to avoid.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  15. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    You see how the man and woman died. If by starvation or gun shot then okay. But disease would change any decision I make. If no disease was involved with the death of the man and woman than I would have to bring the children with me. I do what I do, I live my life to help protect the future generations. Those children will be in the world longer then me. Extra mouths will cut down on food for all but I cannot lose who I am.
  16. BlueDuck

    BlueDuck Monkey+++

    Interesting set of circumstances. Most would help if they could. Not much information about the actual situation. Most of the replies suggest, your in pretty good shape and society is still functioning, at least somewhat. I don't think this is just a typical family outing. How bad is it really? If this is really a SHTF situation, and how widespread is it? Have you and yours eaten lately. How do you plan to resupply. If these are small kids, can they walk? Do you need to carry them? Can you. Lots of questions that will affect your mindset and your plan forward.
  17. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    My thought exactly. People are assuming that churches and local authorities are still functioning. I took the question of no services available. Would you really bring two kids you found in the woods to local authorities? What are you going to say when you are questioned?

    I think if society has collapsed, my creep meter would be extra sensitive. Gut feeling is one thing that people do not listen to enough. IMO if someone doesn't have a weapon that would be a question. I would be more irritated by having to deal with a bunch of pacifists that will blat and squirm if they have to eat fresh killed deer.
  18. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Everyone is both a potential friend, and a potential enemy, and the lines are rarely clear. I have had enough experience with this preSHTF to not throw down when something jumps out of the woods at me.

    And seriously, the scenario starts with two people SHOOTING AT YOU FROM COVER. The fact that they are bad at it is not going to stop me from painting the bushes with them. Could you, in good conscience, really take in part of that family, who have the same experiences with the world? I've seen that often enough.

    I mean, seriously, have y'all ever been around those kids that get dropped off at the church? Most of them are fing nuts, and hell on wheels for most of their life. I wouldn't inflict that on good people, much less want to deal with it myself.
  19. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    You dealt with the adults. That was a given. Anyone firing at you is a target. I gave the benefit of the doubt to get to the heart of the scenario. It wasn't about shooting adults, more about moral obligation to helping kids. All comments are valid because situation dictates how you act. Yes, teens would be a problem. They may carry revenge in their heart for their parents being killed. Even if the parents were bad. Younger kids may grow to understand that what happened was justified or they too may grow to hate you. All of us could go through the exact same situation and results will still be varied. I tend to agree with the idea that if they are helpless, I will help them. I know it will be a bigger burden on me, though it's a cheap price to pay for my humanity. If there are churches, which I'm sure there will be, then maybe they can help at least with guidance.
  20. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If the parents are teaching their kids raiding, and demonstrated it by attempting to take my life and the lives of my family,
    no doubt the kids have been used as bait to get the sympathetic out in the open, or get intel on prospective targets.
    Lets not forget the tactics of the Muslims using kids to carry IED or other explosive device .
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