SEEDS "Open Pollinated" "Heirloom"

Discussion in 'The Green Patch' started by john316, May 21, 2018.


  1. john316

    john316 Monkey+++

    WHY you should use "open pollinated" and "heirloom" seeds most of the time
    This is just a short take on the subject

    JUST IN FROM
    Why grow Real Vegetable Seed?


    Why grow 'Real Seed'?
    We only supply Real, Open Pollinated seed. No Hybrids & no GM seed. Here's why:

    Real Seed breeds true, so you can save your own seed.
    But that's not the only reason . . . real vegetable seed is better:

    Hybrid ("F1") seed is the result of a cross between two different , but heavily inbred parents. Seed you save from these plants will either be sterile or a give a whole mix of shapes and types, usually producing a poor crop.

    Only the seed company knows what the parents are, thus only they can produce that particular variety. If you want to grow it, you have no other source - good for the seed companies but not for you! Small growers should be able to keep their own seeds, selecting each year the best plants most suitable for their own land and conditions.

    Yes, there are a few exceptions, but in general, the hybrid seed business has been a public relations victory over the small grower. For example, you will soon see more and more hybrid leek seed offered to you. This is because the supermarkets have set incredibly rigid limits on leek size, and the only way to achieve this is through hybridising two inbred varieties, so all leek seed production is switching to hybrids.

    You will be told that these new leeks are 'more uniform', 'straighter' and so on. But what about flavour and adaptability? People seem to forget that we want to eat & enjoy these things - food is not just a commodity!

    Despite common urban myths, there is no magic about hybrids. So-called "hybrid vigour" is the simple fact that good hybrid seed is better than bad real seed, and that sadly much of the real seed you get now has been badly maintained. But good real seed - which admittedly requires time, care and patience to produce and maintain - must, by virtue of the genetics of these things, be just as good, and in fact much more adaptable to different soils.

    The key here is that it takes less manpower to make the hybrid seed, so the wholesale seed growers are much happier to let the old varieties fade away.

    And as for the cost of hybrid seed, this is another mystery. Hybrids are not made by hand. Yes, they were in the past, but not for many years now. Most hybrid pollination nowadays is done by chemical sprays, not hand pollination, so hybrid seed shouldn't be any more expensive than other seed. There may be a slight extra cost associated with the spraying, but it certainly doesn't justify the high prices and tiny packets some companies are offering.

    Basically, seeds are now bred for large industrial farms (which is where the money is) and you, the home grower, just get fobbed off with a few of the same thing. Modern advert copywriting sometimes tries to disguise this. So when you're offered something that's 'good for freezing', what they mean is that it was bred to ripen all at once for machine harvesting & you'll get a glut.

    Here are a few examples from other catalogues that we found: How about 'really uniform fruit' - which often means 'inbred for the supermarket, narrow genetic base, may not adapt to your soil'. Or 'straight long shanks' usually means 'bred to fit the packing machine.' Or the best one yet - 'Leafless peas - easy to find the pods' translates as 'much smaller yield (the plants have no leaves !) - but at least now we've got rid of the leaves we can harvest them with a combine.' What a sad situation this is, with marketing people rather than gardeners writing the descriptions in modern seed catalogues.

    In summary, hybrid seed can indeed have advantages for the industrial-chemical farmer who wants to harvest all at once. But for the small home grower who wants a good yield over a long period, real seeds are usually more productive.

    This has been shown time and time again, and we think that once you have tried the real open-pollinated varieties we have found, you will agree.



    A NOTE ON GENETIC ENGINEERING OF PLANTS
    & OTHER GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS (GMOs)

    Although Ben studied genetic engineering at university, all of our breeding is by traditional methods only. On grounds of both safety and ethics we strongly oppose all genetic engineering and the patenting of plants.

    The subject is very complex, but the dangers are very simple. We believe that, without exaggeration, the release of Genetically Modified crops truly is a dangerous practice that threatens the entire ecosystem.

    It is simply not true that Genetically Modified crops will solve third-world food problems or require less pesticides. This is no more than advertising 'spin'.

    Genetic engineering is NOT just a variant of what farmers and breeders have done for centuries. It is a completely new science that can give very odd, very different and highly unpredictable results. It is not 'natural' for a plant to have a fish gene in it, and there is no knowing what odd poisons the plant might make as a result of finding fish proteins floating around in its sap.

    GM plants are probably unsafe to eat, but we don't know for sure, because due to intense political lobbying, none of these plants have undergone any food safety testing(!) - which is why it is important that food should be labelled as to whether it contains GM ingredients or not. The only benefit of GM crops is to the large multinationals that are using them to take control of the worlds food supply.

    We will not knowingly have anything to do with genetically modified seeds

     
    Dont, Mindy Sue, ochit and 4 others like this.
  2. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    The wife never even heard of genetically enhanced seeds before coming here to the states. I had to ensure she only bought heirloom and she thought I was pulling her leg because she knows I hate gardening and know nothing about it but did know about this. She was quite upset because she couldn't collect seeds for the following year.

    I think the first thing one does notice between the two is taste, big difference. For example, the strawberries one buys in the store here look beautiful and taste okay but compared to a 'real' strawberry which is smaller but also much sweeter and tastier. Anyway, that is about all I know on the subject...
     
  3. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    All my seeds are heirloom I constantly buy at end of season on sale I keep them in the freezer in a tupperwear container if it is a no frost keep it in the middle of bunch of frozen stuff if it touches the edge it will defrost and refreeze not good for the seeds. I have planted seeds from frozen after some years and they have grown fine and produced fine. I have found that many varieties have tremendous flavors or unique that the basic crop in a can just does not have not all canned food is bad it's just that much is grown for yield for that area. some is GMO but you ahve to research to know. my favorite tomato is a Cherokee purple.

    Just FYI some vegetables need to have vinegar or lime or lemon juice in fruits added to raise acidity for canning a good canning book and look for information on the particular vegetable your canning . low acid allows for botulinum and other toxins to grown. some vegetables require pressure canning under new / er canning guidelines, I know grandma's green beans never killed anyone well all it takes is one bad seal or mishap in handling well their are too many chances for something to go wrong that can risk your life and you won't necessarily know by taste and children and the elderly are mor at risk for a severe reaction and death or mental injury. so it's not worth it if you cannot afford or have a pressure canner there is always drying or freezing. until you can get one.
     
    chelloveck, Gator 45/70 and Mindy Sue like this.
  4. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    My only comment will be one I picked up from the survival gardener, David the Good. By all means if you have a fruit or vegetable that has a seed, there is no reason you cannot pot a few of those seeds and see if they will grow. If it grows and you do not want to cross pollinate with your other similar fruits or veggies of the same type that you may be growing, then plant these plants Guerrilla style away from your garden along your property line or somewhere open and public where you can find the plants again. They just might produce an acceptable crop you or others can harvest. and you really have little invested except some time. Just a suggestion. Worst case you can chop them up for compost.
     
  5. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    I have nothing against Hybrids and yes there is such a thing as hybrid vigor. I cross pollinate sever heirloom plant varieties that make far better hybrids than the parent heirlooms. Same with the pigs a Berkshire/Herford cross out performs either of the parent stock on foraging and conversion of forage to meat. A little more to it than just cross pollinating and and cross breeding there is a lot of selective breeding that goes into getting the best traits in the parent stocks to get into the hybrid to express the sets of traits you want.

    GEO (Genetically Engineered Organism) is what most folks mistakenly call GMO (Genetically Modified Organism) everything alice today with a very very few exceptions is a Hybrid and has been Modified through natural selection, adaptation and natural genetic mutations. GEO is something I find unacceptable as it is doing things like making corn that produces BT toxin through the introduction of another species DNA that could never happen via natural selection.

    Fruit trees are almost all clones of parent hybrids and heirloom varieties. Basically branches are cut from the parent plants and grafted on to root stock of inferior fruiting but better rooting and more durable trees. I can graft my wolf river apple tree branches onto trashy crab apple root stock and there is zero difference in the apples the grafted and not grafted trees produce. I just don't have to spend as many years waiting for a seed to sprout and then grow into a fruiting tree.

    Heirloom seeds are all hybrids they were just selectively bred to breed true and after so many years of breeding true are classed as heirloom. A good example of this are Nantes Carrots a rather old heirloom variety. But how can this be when all carrots were once white! Or the Gypsy Pepper that is still classed as a hybrid even though they have been around forever and breed true. I wish all that hybrid seed was as sterile as folks say it is. I would spend a whole lot less time cultivating all the volunteer hybrids it drops out of rows.

    I am a big fan of keeping the heritage breeds and heirloom plants going strong as they are required to make the hybrids and cross breeds. And they do in many cases have their own unique traits that are desirable in and of themselves. But if I can breed a better pig through cross breeding and then spend 10-12 generations selective breeding the hybrids to breed true and consistently make better pigs, I am not seeing the problem.

    And as a point of absolute fact, you don't get much more inbred than Heirloom and Heritage breeds.
     
    Dunerunner and chelloveck like this.
  6. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    *facepalm* I just cringe when people don't know the difference between GMO and hybrids.

    we have a whole thread on it here somewhere.

    'Heirloom seeds' are seeds that have been in families for generations and some are very vigorous crosses, ( ever notice a mutt is usually smarter than a pure bred dog?) same thing, hybrid are two plants that you cross.

    GMO's are done in a laboratory not crossed in a field and allowed to grow. There are lots of failed crossbred plants, it's why they grow them in isolated seed farms.

    I must be having a bad night, I just want to shoot people who don't do their homework. [YD][boozingbuddies][YD] (my other pet peeve is people who think 'alum' used in canning is 'aluminum'
     
    Thunder5Ranch likes this.
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