I’m setting up a camper for temporary living area. Real close to the main home. The camper has propane heat which will get expensive for the amount of time it will be used. Here’s my thought on an idea for you all’s thoughts , advice, experiences ,, good or bad. Do you think this will be effective?? I have a 220 volt 50 gal water heater close to the camper in the main AO. I’ve not been using , just disconnected power , water still cycles through it ,, I just installed a smaller 12 gal heater closer to my water useage area. Ok. Reconnecting heater is no problem. I have a brand new aluminum transmission cooler far an 4 350 diesel truck ,, so it a pretty decent size. I was thinking of building a box in the camper for the trans cooler , put a 12 volt electric cooling fan behind the cooler,, piping hot water to the cooler from the water heater and possibly using the 12 volt water pump from the camper to recirculate the water to the trans cooler and water heater. I haven’t checked on my water heaters max temp rating yet , but guessing I can get it around 150 degrees,, circulate the water from water heater to trans cooler and back to water heater with the 12volt pump with a temp gauge set at about 100 degrees to recirculate the water. Do y’all think this would work?? I’m just trying to get dome inexpensive heat in this thing for a little while , and can’t use a small wood stove because there will be a baby in this place temporarily and can’t risk the kid getting burned. I’m also open to other ideas. The camper has power and it’s 12 volt converter working so the batteries will continue to be charged. I’m open to any ideas , suggestions, or criticisms. Thank you.
We lived in an RV for 2 years, I used those oil filled electric radiator heaters for safety with the kids.
The scheme will work, how well, I don't know. That said, do not use that water for domestic purposes, nor leave a pipe path for the water to get back into the domestic side of the system. You'll then need a way to keep a positive pressure on the (well insulated) pipes from the house to the trailer. (Think weltrol tank.)
@BenP ,, I’ve got an Oil filled heater to use ,, just keep getting confused on the cost of power consumption of a 1500 watt heater running 24 hrs a day. @ghrit ,,, I hadn’t considered the effects of the water returning to the system. What is your concern for this?? The trans cooler is brand new,, never installed,, so it shouldn’t be contaminated other than factory contaminants ,, which I could flush with a decent cleaner if that’s your concern. The piping and pipe insulation isn’t a problem. That’s already been expected. Just trying to keep power usage to minimum to keep the cost of this venture to a minimum. Thanks for all input and ideas.
Heating water then pumping hot water to RV will be less efficient compared to just putting electric heaters in the RV. There will be heat loss around the water tank, along the hoses, etc. If you can heat or even partially pre-heat the water with firewood or solar collectors or some lower cost/kwh fuel compared to electric, then you may be able to put a dent in the costs to heat the RV. About the primary advantage of heating the water and pumping it to a heat exchanger in the RV is this would be pretty safe with a very low fire potentiality for the RV.
Factory crud is one thing high on the list. Secondly there is a remote but real possibility for some kind of cross contamination of the rest of the system if something goes out of round. Plus, if the code enforcement folks get wind of it, you'll get hammered with all sorts of nuisances. Cross connection is not going to matter a lot IF you are on a private well, but flush the ever lovin' out of it. I've ignored the reaction between aluminum and chlorine, if your system is chemically treated; the aluminum will be eaten up eventually or sooner, depending on concentration. Dunno 'bout other stuff that might come across your sills.
Ok, this is something I have done for my Boat, for long term dry storage, and guest use! The basic concept you have is correct, but, depending on the costs of electricity, it may not be that good, or worth the hassle. Where i found the biggest advantages was to pipe it from the home water heater, and used a nice ball valve to regulate the supply side. For the water pump, a small pond pump was the most efficient running unit I could find, it could lift the water about 6 feet, so it had decent power, but I could cut the flow way back to just a trickle for maximum heat transfer through the radiator! The pump had no problem pushing the water through slowely, and it worked very well! I set up the Radiator so it would use convection, that way there was little need for additional power to run a fan, yet, a small computer fan ( brushless) did the trick when I needed to crank up the heat! I still have that setup someplace, but it requires being parked close to the water tank, so that could be an issue for me these days!
Thanks all , I'm on well water , so the chlorine is not a problem . I could pipe it in about 15 feet of distance . The crud in the cooler is something I didn't think about . The inspectors aren't a problem either , as a GC , i'm used to dealing with them , and being the homeowner of the property I'm working on , and going to be living in the house for at least a year , I can do any work as long as it passes code . And I don't halfass my work . I may just stick with the electric heat and use the existing propane heat , or put in a wall mount backup heater . I just know the existing propane heater is going to be expensive and not well installed from what I've found out so far . Thanks for all the input , it helps to get the perspective from others .
It all depends on the cost per KW of electric versus the cost of propane. The water heater idea isn't a great one as you will have two approach temperatures (losses), one by putting the BTU's into the water and another by extracting the BTU's back out. Better would be a wood stove with a water coil if you have wood to burn, best would just be the aforementioned oil filled heater as all of the losses end up in the space.
There were some condo's built a few miles from my house that used baseboard hot water heat and domestic hot water with a tankless hot water heater, condensing high efficiency unit, and a large common tank with metered delivery of propane to each unit. Units were well insulated, got some government money to do that, the heating system took up a few square feet on the wall in the utility-laundry room, and the units were maintained by the condo as a whole. Worked out very well and has for 10 years, bulk delivery of propane cut cost about in half, flushing to prevent scaling and such all done correctly, common system so heating and plumbing people had spares and knew system. Don't know if smaller system would work for you. One system shown on net was this one. Heating a Home With a Tankless Water Heater Don't have any idea of how it would really work, but liked his diagrams and walk thru. He was using pex and radiant heat. One thing I had missed was that you have to have a circulation pump in the primary leg that is controlled by temp of water in secondary loop. Usual tankless hot water system uses flow of water to trigger unit and pressure system to supply water. While that will still work on domestic hot water side, will need some other way to trigger flow thru system when you need heat in the secondary room heating mode as there is no flow of water thru the tankless water heater. Circulation pump kicks in and circulates water thru and unit heats it. As always the devil is in the details, expansion tank in heating loop, means of supplying make up water, differences in desired water temps and use of a tempering valve as in a boiler system. Sneaky part of his system is that is maximized for heat primary loop and uses heat exchange to heat secondary loop for domestic hot water. System is taken straight from principals of a boiler system and thus everything used is off the shelf plumbing and heating.. Easy to make something that heats, hard part is details to make it safe, simple, and effective. I got going down the tankless rat hole in trying to figure out a solar system using water heating panels for a green house with a backup if there wasn't enough retained or solar heat available. While wood was the perfect solution, it would not work as an emergency backup as it required someone to be present to operate it. Haven't built it yet, use propane heaters, but it has been fun to design and would love to build it.
Thanks Duane. I had considered a tankless water heater as well and was figuring on the pump to circulate the water and temperature controlled valves to activate the pump and backflow valves. Have just been thinking about this ,, haven’t gotten the design completely figured out. I will look at your link when I have a little more time. Thank you.
The oil filled heater will be more efficient than using a water heater unless you use a heat pump water heater. If you really want to save some power buy a small mini-split heat pump off fleebay and install in in your RV.
If you're on well water, chlorine isn't an issue, but hard water will be. I'm in the oil-filled electric space heater camp. I use one for my shop in which reloading is done, simply for the fact that they do not present an ignition source, which is the last thing you need in the presence of flammable solids.
Yep, I don't really want to heat my reloading area with my reloading powder, efficiency is high, but so are costs and such. Electric heat on a constant use is not possible here. The greens have stopped the gas pipelines, stopped the powerlines for bringing cheap Canadian hydro, block the coal trains taking coal to the power plants, etc. My Nov 2019 bill was for 432 Kwh, use Led lights, heat with wood, have solar for greenhouse, etc, and it cost me an average of 24.43 cents per Kwh. Actual bill divided by power use. That would change with more use as some costs, reading meter, billing, and such are fixed. Listed average cost of power for NH listed on net was 20.28 cents per Kwh, 2.5 Kw times 24 yields 60 Kwh a day for one 2500 watt heater, 30 days gives 1800 Kwh and $.2028 per Kwh would cost $365.04 for 1 month use for 1 heater. When I made the stupid mistake a few years ago, with use discount etc, it only cost me about $200 before I got the bill and shut it off. Even if on a thermostat and running 10 % of the time, it would be $40 or so.
I believe you are all right . I will stick with the oil filled for now , as I'm limping around on a broke foot , and crawling around under houses and campers right now will have to go on the back burner , as well as many other projects . That was a really interesting article Duane , proper planning can pay off . Thanks again for all the input .
