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The Sabbath vs Sun day debate

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by skyking, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    The Sabbath vs Sun day debate the line in the sand is pretty well defined between those that honor the 7th day and those that honor the 1st day.However is the evidence that supports one over the other referenced in scripture and or we following "traditions" over scripture?

  2. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    seventh day and rest

    scripture outlines the 7th day being set apart from the start and we can see that if it was written it is important
    Genesis 2:2-3

    2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

    Exodus 16:22-30

    you can see here how the seventh has been set apart from other days and they were given a hands on example of what would happen if they doubted the lords word.

    And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
    27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the LORD said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.


    here's the big one
    the 4th commandment
    Exodus 20:10-12

    10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

    Definition of REST

    : repose, sleep; specifically : a bodily state characterized by minimal functional and metabolic activities

    a : freedom from activity or labor b : a state of motionlessness or inactivity c : the repose of death

    : a place for resting or lodging

    : peace of mind or spirit

    a (1) : a rhythmic silence in music (2) : a character representing such a silence b : a brief pause in reading

    : something used for support

    at rest 1
    : resting or reposing especially in sleep or death

    : quiescent, motionless

    : free of anxieties
  3. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    do you keep your sabbath year?
    every 7th year you know, youre sposed to rest and let your land rest
    skyking likes this.
  4. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    we kept our first one in 2008,it was hard ,only because we had just moved to a new farm in KY and were just getting ready to put out a garden and ... well I fought pretty hard trying to find a loop hole, the flesh sure wanted to raise it's ugly head for sure.
    IMHO learning and keeping the weekly sabbath will lead to keeping the 7 yr sabbath and the High Sabbaths or those Sabbaths during the feast

    I think you told me before you observed a 7 yr cycle is that based on scripture and do you keep the 7th day sabbath?
  5. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    it started from scripture and the idea that we are sposed to care for the earth
    as far as me taking a whole day off just to worship god.
    no, i spend every minute of everyday with him, if that aint enuff, hes too damned spoiled for his own good :p
  6. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    The Catholic letter

    Pope Plus XI
    Rome, Italy

    Dear Sir:

    Is the accusation true that Protestants accuse you of? They say you changed the seventh day Sabbath to the so-called Christain Sunday: identical with the first day of the week. If so, when did you make the change, and by what authority?

    Yours very truly,
    J. L. Day

    reply here >An Extraordinary Admission
  7. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Times and Laws Changed by Rome

    On this page I have some overwhelming facts that EVERY Protestant needs to read. If the Protestant church of today knew what the Catholic church did in the past regarding the 7th Day Sabbath they would not be worshipping on Sundays today. I guarantee that if you are a TRUE child of God seeking to do exactly as the Creator would have you do, this information on this page will effect you in a major way! Prophecy states plainly that the beast will seek to change "times and laws" and on this page you will see ample evidence that the Roman Catholic church ADMITS to that very act!

    • The Word of God says:
      Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and
      think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."
    The word of Rome says:
    "The Pope has the power
    to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." -Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

    More:Rome ADMITS they changed the Sabbath
  8. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    What do you think about Jesus's words---"the Sabbath was made for man-not man for the Sabbath"? The seventh day is for rest, reflection, and praises. IMO, we can have our Sabbath on Wednesday or any other day as long as we honor and keep it holy.
    BTPost, skyking and Hispeedal2 like this.
  9. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Defining the Biblical Sabbath with the Gregorian calendar would be like putting the cart before the horse. What we call Saturday may have not been the Sabbath in Genesis. As there is no specified days that we can count up from the creation in the Old Testament.

    I do believe that one should follow God's example and set a day aside to rest. In that, I think He is pleased. I think the Sabbath in the Jewish context falls under ceremonial law as well. So, unless I am going to burn offerings for my sins on the same day.... well you get my point. I've weighed in enough on skyking's threads for everyone to understand my view.

    Interesting to think about. I will finish with this- whenever you choose to set aside rest or time for God, do it to His glory.
    BTPost, skyking and Sapper John like this.
  10. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    King most of your posts seem to want to stir up some controversy.. as to which way to worship is right... as long as you worship God as you understand him and follow the precepts that you believe to be correct every thing else is just words... and not worth the time or effort to try and stir up debate over...

  11. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    I understand what your trying to say and I think perhaps your speaking about "worship" ,I could be wrong.If so ,your right we can do that any day any time any where .However he set apart only "one" day and one commandment and he said "remember" it and that was the seventh day and the 4th commandment.
    I guess in a way your correct .You can have "your " sabbath any day of the week and call it holy,however the Elohim{lord] of Abraham ,Iasacic and Jacob has written and described in detail the "seventh " day is his "Sabbath"
    Exodus 20:10-12

    10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.

    Wednesday could never be the seventh it would always be the 4th day

    I'd like to ask a question here and anyone jump in. Why is keeping a seventh day sabbath harder or wrong vs. doing it on the 1st day{sunday} ?
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I agree. The questions that have been presented generally revolve around a point of view. Much more in the way of a pilpul than a clarification. The distinctions in points of view are often pretty fine, and in the long haul immaterial unless you happen to be a rabbinical (or other theological) scholar.
  13. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    This is the fallacy I see in the 7th day Adventist argument. You are relying on the Gregorian calendar to determine the day of the week which God intends as the Sabbath. That is not God's Sabbath, that is the Sabbath decided upon in 1582.... long and uncountably after the Sabbath is mentioned in Genesis. When the law was revealed, was the Sabbath clear? Did anyone have a calendar that showed the Sabbath that God rested?

    A week is a circle... there is no end and no beginning. You can make of it what you will. Moses had no idea what Saturday or Wednesday was.

    I agree Ghrit. Especially with the part on those details being immaterial. I still enjoy the discussion with Skyking. He makes reaffirm what I believe, even if he does ignore parts of the New Testament to latch on to parts of the old (JK skyking ;)). That is why I end my posts with- "it doesn't matter what, just do it to the glory of Him". We are given certain liberties as Christians. That is why the law is referred to in the New Testament as "slavery" and now we are freed.
    skyking likes this.
  14. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    not really

    "as long as you worship God as you understand him and follow the precepts that you believe to be correct every thing else is just words.."

    see ,what I've been trying to point out is not the your way or I or our ,we
    it's the way God as described and warned us and detailed he's to be worshiped .

    your right about "words" they're very important and the words he's given us are to be obeyed ,correct?

    would I be in error if I failed to warn you about a dangerous situation in your life?would I be in even worse error if I failed to point out what it is?
    yeah these are hot subjects and I'm used to being scolded

    "and not worth the time or effort to try and stir up debate over..."

    if I didn't love you my friend I'd never take the time to be here....

  15. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    I appreciate all your post and comments and views.It's not my job to try and shake you loose from any doctrine or theology .I simply present a different point of view and information .Since most of it goes against the grain of today's teaching ,a little agitation is expected and warra[gun]nted .

    It just boils down to agreeing to disagree..
    Hispeedal2 likes this.
  16. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have been agreeing to disagree with many of your posts, since you showed up.... ..... YMMV.....
    Sapper John and skyking like this.
  17. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    I know you have BT, i was hoping to hear more of what you thought my friend,not to argue or long debates just your take.When you present things that people are uncomfortable hearing or oppisite of what they practice or believe it can make for tense moments.I submit and share these things because I have a true desire to search and expose truth.
    Like you getting an AD on your Cessna wing spar and you choose to ignore it.It might fail and it might not ,I might be sharing correct facts and I might not,your job to inspect it to make sure.....
    anyway blue skies and a stiff tailwind my friend.
  18. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Folks with a "knowledgable insight" have been around for a long long time. Jesus made the "way" simple enough for the farmers, fishermen, and tradesmen to easily understand His ministry, promises, and even salvation. In fact, He even cautioned that some would be ever learning and never using said knowledge. Paul was confronted with that kind almost every where he went. Personal interaction with Jesus with a receiving heart will get one through the "maze" of off the wall discussions. Really, nothing else matters except that relationship and one's favorable actions because of it. Everything else pales into insignificance if that Godly bond is honored. The Sabbath, pre-mid-post millinialism, the Kingdom, etc, etc. are but stepping stones to the "saved" person. To the unsaved they are giant stumbling stones. Faith is the difference in the two viewpoints and life styles. Without it there is no real understanding of God's Word. With it the shadows disappear and one can see a lot of things so much more clearly.
    Sapper John, Hispeedal2 and beast like this.
  19. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Jim Staley - "And He Rested" - Should Christians Keep the Sa

    An In-depth Look at the Biblical Sabbath In a culture where businesses are open 24 hours a day, fast food is a regular diet and most families have both spouses working around the clock just to make ends meet, a day of rest is not even on the radar for most Christian households. With the Sabbath being number four in the ten commandments, it is more than important for us to finally answer some of the most imperative questions of our time: Does God really care when we keep the Sabbath or how? Was the Sabbath really changed? Did the early believers keep the Sabbath on the 7th day? Does scripture really say that everyone will be keeping the Sabbath in the millennium? These question and more are answered in what some say is the most comprehensive teaching on the Sabbath you can find!

    ‪Jim Staley - "And He Rested" - Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?‬‏ - YouTube
  20. skyking

    skyking Monkey+


    Isai 58:13 "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, [From] doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy [day] of Yahweh honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking [your] words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in Yahweh; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of Yahweh has spoken."
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