TOTM February 2015- Bugging In

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Motomom34, Feb 1, 2016.


  1. GOG

    GOG Free American Monkey

    @RickR, the idea of a rifle is as a standoff weapon. The idea is to keep the threat at a distance. If you're relying on a handgun, they're too close.

    Engineers tend to suffer from analysis paralysis. There are no perfect solutions and no perfect guns, the idea is to improve your odds. I encourage you to get the situation corrected.
     
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  2. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @GOG
    "Engineers tend to suffer from analysis paralysis. There are no perfect solutions and no perfect guns, the idea is to improve your odds."
    :):):):):) LOL!! Guilty as charged! I guess I am pretty transparent, huh? :):) Yes, I need to just break down and buy at least one...Rick
     
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  3. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    My last AR-15 was 500 bucks and 750 with quality optics. Brand new.

    One thing Ill mention about raiders. They are carrying their supplies so they cant lay siege so to speak. People on foot have to win the fight quickly and I am counting on that in my defenses. I let them think they are winning as we draw them in and take them out. How much food can a raider carry? He is already loaded down with gun and ammo and water. Logistics logistics logistics. Resupply is key. A group hits one well defended home and expends their ammo they are toast. They have to win and win fast or they just burn up their ammo and food .

    Now a smart Raider will kidnap someone from your group and ransom that person. Then move on before you kill them OR USE YOUR OWN FOOD AND AMMO AGAINST YOU. My biggest fear is some young woman all ragged looking with a child walking towards the gate. Begging for food. We lower our guard and are taken by surprise by raiders on the sides. Watch the Movie Book of Eli as they used a woman as bait. I see these tactics as more dangerous then say a frontal assault against defenders who are dug in and well armed like us. WE will be trusting NO ONE.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2016
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    One thing that has been bugging me and I can't let it go. In July, I read a really good article in the New Yorker concerning the Cascadia Fault. This thing makes the San Andres fault look like a wimp and when it let go, not 'if' it lets go Seattle, Portland and Vancouver BC are gone (and lots of smaller town/cities), everything West of I-5 is gone plus a tidal wave that will go all the back to Japan. I see this doing two things: 1) it really will cause a SHTF scenario and how long it will last is anyone's guess. 2) Economically this could tip the US over the age. Hell, we're broke already and living on credit with a $18T bill...image everything from Vancouver down to and include Northern California...mind blowing....and certainly justification to spend money on rifles :):)...another thought, I wonder what Southern California would do for water then....? - Rick
     
  5. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Steal if from the rest of us, of course.

    If you want any advice on selecting a firearm, you can through up what you see as parameters, maybe start a new thread for it, and we can overwhelm you with a lot of very well thought out personal opinions on why we all chose different rifles for those parameters. Sounds kinda bad, but it always helped me make a decision. And I know you engineer types are funny like that.
     
  6. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    *throw up...not through up....need more sleep!
     
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Yes, you do, and it really doesn't matter what at this stage of your experience. You have to start somewhere, and the sooner the better. Even if it's a 10/22 to learn on, it beats hell out of sitting behind the computer studying the situation. (This from another engineer, I have to add. Knowing full well that the end result of all studies is compromise and more study. Ever see an engineering report that didn't identify something that needed more study?)

    Stand up, put on your coat and hie thee to the LGS, lay down your plastic, and head to the nearest range. Don't forget hearing and eye protection.
     
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  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    if you are Prep'ed, then the Cascadia Fault is nothing to get worried over, all that much... There is NOTHING you can do about it, and you aren't going to be hit by a Tsunami where you live... so Bugging In is just fine when thinking abot any effects of that Quake, if or when it comes...You do have to look at being "Down wind of the coastal volcano Range in Alaska, Washington, Oregon and Northern Commiefornia, that might be triggered by a Cascadia quake, but even that is just a Maybe, and Ash can be dealt with.... My Opinion, YMMV...
     
  9. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @ghrit, You're right. I will purchase one within the next 2 weeks. I was prior military (8 years Army), grew up in the Northwest surrounded by guns, have an Enhanced Conceal Firearm permit, have 2 ea. 9mm (Glock 19 and a Kahr P9), a Remington 887 pump 12 gauge, and a Ruger 10/22 and shoot all of them at a range that is 5 minutes from my house by car which costs only $5 for the whole day! (Damn I love Idaho!)

    So, the problem is not one of understanding it is one of deciding to spend the money which I have now done. I got off the dime, so to speak. Now, I just need to figure out which one I want and might do what AX recommended and post something for everyone's comment. I was leaning towards a PWS Mk116 but at $1700 I could almost purchase a good gun and a good optic. We'll see. - Rick

    @BTPost, I didn't even think of the possibly of volcano being set off by this quake... geez, it gets better and better :):) - Rick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2016
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  10. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    You can get a perfectly good 308 or 30-06 hunting rifle for well under a grand. Heck, you can even find .308 semi-autos for under 2k...and half the fun is trading up whenever you see something you like better. ;)
     
  11. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Hey Chimo,
    I don't really hunt. I don't have anything against it and would certainly do so if I got hungry (or these damn wild turkeys don't quit tearing up my grass) but if could see the belly hanging over my belt you would know that it will be a while before I get hungry. :):) - Rick
     
  12. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    At around day 3, most people cannot keep it together enough to hunt. True story. And you should get in some practice pre-shtf.
    1. So that you don't starve trying to figure it out. Get loaded, go, and at least run a dummy round in the chamber so you can practice squeezing off the shot. (also carry live ammo, in case you NEED it)
    2. If you do take game, findrecipes that you can STAND EATING. Squirrel ain't chicken, and wild bass ain't restaurant trout.

    Something to think on. I ain't got a dog in this fight.


    You have any of the 25 rounders for that 10/22 that work in your gun? You can pull off a lot with that. IF you ever get another pistol, get you something reliable that can shoot .22lr. Don't want that stockpile going for trade if you can sling it yourself. Haha.
     
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  13. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    Super thread for five solid pages. Thanks all for the contributions.

    Just wanted to add one little gag for bugging in, under the heading of fortifications. In defending an almost indefensible average American home, it might come to the point where the front door gets kicked in by friends, neighbors, raiders, or others of undesirable ilk.

    Armoring a door can help, but eventually a mob will force their way thru. ( 'Tis but the nature of mobs.)

    If that risk becomes apparent, I recommend "The Squeezer". One of my better passive-aggressive ideas, I think.

    If the door is located near a wall, you build a sturdy "wild-wall" about six feet long that angles from one side of the doorway toward the near wall. Leave just enough space for one person to barely slide through the opening at the narrow end.

    If the door is kicked open by a rampaging mob, they'll surge through the doorway, and get funneled into the narrow end of the Squeezer. Which can easily be blocked off any one of several ways.

    Packed in like sardines and pushed from behind, the first wave wouldn't be able to fight or retreat. Small gunports in the wall just below waist height would allow one-way firing in and up to dispatch the trapped intruders.

    If your door (or castle gate) isn't close to a wall, just use two wild-walls in a sharp vee. Same effect.

    I developed this as a means of defending castle gates against rams. As soon as the gate went down, the attacking army would swarm into the Squeezer and pack tight--with no defense against archers on the walls, and no room to bring their weapons into play.

    And no retreat as long as the rest of the army is also trying to go through the smashed gate.

    And, of course, once the Squeezer gets packed tight with standing bodies, any further attempts to ram would just be wasted effort.

    Just once I'd like to see how a SWAT Team would respond to smashing in a door and charging into a Squeezer...(OOPS!)

    Probably make a hilarious training video.
     
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  14. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Best plan I've seen to combat this is to take small containers, say 1 gallon in size and at most 5 gallon buckets, and make a "give away kit". Things that cook fast and store well (lentils, broth cubes, drink mixes, etc.). When the neighbors come calling you can hand it out and say this is all I can spare, it's for you good luck.
    Now that makes it another double edged sword. They know you have food to spare so will they be back, that's questionable.

    In my opinion, if you are bugging in (and we intend to, more on that later) it's best to make friends with your neighbors NOW. You don't have to be so close that they know you are prepping for TEOTWAWKI, but being friendly now may help in the future.

    As far as our bug in, well we have a long way to go, a lot longer than a few months ago. Why you might ask, did we go backwards in our preps? Well, we sold our house in the city (.08 acre lot) and moved to a 2 acre lot in the next county over and we are NOT in any incorporated city). Pluses - slightly bigger house so we can store more preps in the climate controlled space (living area), Well, septic, no city ordinances to deal with, limited county involvement, more land for growing crops and livestock.

    Downside, we have to "make friends" with all new neighbors now. We've met the 3 neighbors immediately around us (both sides and across the street). We are slowly getting to know one of the neighbors (he's a hunter and likes fishing, so that's a plus). In talking with this neighbor I casually mentioned the lack of gardens and how everyone basically mows their 2ac plots and there are no "edible" trees/bushes/plants in the area. His response, not too many of us want to garden out here. Huh, might as well move back to the city then IMHO.

    Our plans for our little homestead include but are not limited to:
    • Removing non-producing trees and replacing with fruit and nut trees (everyone on the street has bradford pear trees which don't produce any pears!)
    • create and install a garden approx 50' x 100' this year, with plans on expanding perennial crops as time goes on
    • While we have a generator that can run the well pump, I want to install a second pump that can run on 12/24VDC and have a shed created to house the batteries and solar components.
    • Install a whole house backup generator along with a subpanel of "essential" circuits to be able to run from a generator.
    • Install gutters for rain catchment. My wife has access to 275gal totes (have 2 right now, I want to add 2 more at least) for water storage.
    • Improve storage in the house for supplies.
    • Build a chicken coop and run for meat and egg layers (converting 1/3 of the existing metal shed into a coop)
    Not really related to prepping, but we plan on building a detached garage/workshop as well. I do woodworking as a hobby and I like to "tinker" on things so it would be nice to have a garage we can park in for a change.

    One other advantage to our new home, is that we are 30 mi closer to our BOL. Yes we plan to stay put, until we have to leave. We now only have to travel 70 mi to our BOL and we have a primary and 3 secondary routes (and 4 tertiary routes) that we can take to get there.
     
  15. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    But what if your survival depends upon hunting some two-legged varmints from a distance? Rifles are not just for hunting meat. ;)
     
  16. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    In an art history/physics class at college, the physics professor talked about mirrors and how to figure out where objects are based on the angles, they actually used that in their house decor, placing mirrors at strategic locations to be able to see everything. That's a good idea if your house has plenty of obstacles that interferes with line of sight.
     
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  17. GOG

    GOG Free American Monkey

    And good Fung Shui can't hurt either. :cool:
     
  18. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    Never feed a stray cat at your own back door and never dispense charity from home. Take it to a shelter or church with the understanding they tell no one where it came from. Friend or foe, feed one today and there will be ten tomorrow, until they take everything you have.
     
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  19. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I tend to agree with that concept.
     
  20. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Your math is off, only 4 literally showed up on our doorstep. The other 3, 1 I found crying for help in the empty lot nearby while taking care of neighbor's animals while they were out of town, the other 2 came from another neighbor. Our oldest cat was the only one we intended to get, when our now-departed cat was around 10 years old, because I wanted him to pass on his hunting prowess to the next generation. With 8 cats, we don't have to worry about rodent issues. We've got a whole 'nother set of problems. And both of our next door neighbors have dogs, so them and Scruffy tend to discourage strange cats from showing up. Well strange cats that don't live here at least. Stoner turned out to be too accurate a name for one of our newest additions.
     
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