Topic of the Month March 2016- Long Term Recovery

Discussion in 'Survival Topic of the Month' started by Motomom34, Mar 1, 2016.


  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Long term Recovery:

    While searching for TOTM March I solicited ideas from fellow monkeys, there was the suggestion of re-establishing community post collapse:
    We have our beans, our rice and bullets but what about after? There is that one point when it is time to re-emerge and join society again. Do you even have plans for that? The terms cottage industry and the barter system are things of the past, but they may also be our future. We will see communities trying to form and start to establish some type of society.

    Scenario:

    An event happened. Your world has collapsed. Doesn’t matter what happen all you need to know is the country is destroyed. Help from other countries is not coming and if it is coming it will not be enough both in time and tangibles. Your nation is on its own. The gas has stopped flowing. The resupplying of food to stores stopped plus FEMA ran out of MREs. Virtually every corporation is shut down domestically and internationally, they have suspended operations because of the collapse of society as we know it. Starvation, disease, riots, looting and robbery has claimed about 70% of the population, more loss in large cities. You survived all that. There are a few various small businesses that are trying to supply, self-produced goods and services but cottage industry and barter can only service local folks until transportation is restored.

    You were adequately prepared or lucky enough to survive all that. How are you going to move beyond subsistence farming and living on the meager food and medical you have left? Do you intend to just garden by hand and forage for rabbits and squirrels (the deer were mostly gone in 8 weeks) until you can't physically do it anymore and then die? Trade WILL start back up in some form.

    Think-

    What preparations do you need to be considering and making NOW to best position yourself for this period of rebuilding after the SHTF? Rebuilding from scratch to include currency and other necessities. Are we going to be rebuilding the same failed system we have now? Would you be active? Survival monkey is host to many news stories, basically bashing all the ills in the world. We are good at finger pointing and armchair quarterbacking, so when it comes time to rebuild will you step up and help to re-establish? There is a difference between surviving and thriving. How are you preparing to thrive for generations to come?
     
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  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The first law of nature will initially assert itself and a massive weeding of the weak will happen. The strong will survive but unfortunately, among the strong are the wolves and jackals. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step and I believe that step has to be in re-establishing community. Without the massive infrastructure, Nations cease to exist. We are only Americans now because the television tells us so. Monsanto destroyed the small American farm and consequently, the central family or tribe. Small farms will be the beginning of any restructure because without a sustainable and renewable source of food, none survive. Cottage industry will meet the needs of those that cannot farm, as even ox drawn plows need repair, tools need sharpening, irrigation require ditches be dug. Many will devote energy towards re-establishing the comforts of their youth but this will quickly come into focus and people realize that an ipad has no real value against a jar of crisp canned okra. Defense alliances and treaties will be drafted between communities and wolves will continually attack the weak from the outside.Religious zealotry will raise head in some ugly ways and wars will be fought over which version of God reins supreme. Feudal Communities will return as many of the strongest assert their ability to form these communities. I paint a picture that is devoid of color and images of disbelief hide in those shades of grey, yet the first signs of true recovery will happen when one community forms an alliance with the next to barter.
     
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  3. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey

    I think it would be advantageous to establish a network, or community, of like-minded individuals beforehand.

    In the world we live in today, we have many reasons to be wary of others. Couple that with the fact that a lot of interactions we have daily are with others by way of the Internet. I believe that we, as a society, are losing the ability to be able to 'read' people effectively, and to interact with them on a personal level.

    As long as this type of communication and distrust continues, I believe it will be one of the major hurdles in establishing a community again. Today, we have no major world changing/ending events, yet we really, as a country, have no sense of community anymore. It's just an us vs. them mentality. A country divided. It's sad.

    Sorry, I may have steer sideways on the topic, but thought it needed to be said.
     
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  4. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    There are people in our area who have knowledge/skills and enough understanding to rebuild our community. I would be VERY careful of who I would let in to our area though.
     
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  5. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++

    I would agree with @GrayGhost in that "...have no sense of community anymore."

    Since my return to the states, we have noticed one thing above everything else - people really don't want to know you. They ignore you and demand to be ignored. Chalk it up as 'wanting privacy' or 'American individualism' or fear of lawsuits or whatever but I will tell you that I have never seen this to the same degree in any of the numerous countries I have lived and worked. Don't get me wrong, people are polite but...they would prefer not to know you for whatever reason...

    Again, I would agree with @GrayGhost , "...I believe that we, as a society, are losing the ability to be able to 'read' people effectively, and to interact with them on a personal level." Yes and yes! Television, films, computers and especially the Internet have replaced the art of conversation. And, conversing is an art, so much so, that people use to be invited to dinner just because of their witty and interesting conversation ability. And, how to interact with different people in different situations is completely lost. Where else can you develop these social skills but with other people? No where. I suppose Clubs and Churches are a very good start as is this Forum but, in general, it seems to me that modern people try to avoid interaction as much as possible.

    God forbid, there is some event that truly devastates the US and we have to bond together for we will not know each other never mind trust each other and you cannot make it alone, not even two can make it.

    So...back on topic, I believe, the most important thing will be a trusting, organized community capable of pooling knowledge and resources and providing common defense.
     
  6. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey

    Spoken very well, @RickR.
     
  7. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Community is a creation. Created by each of us individually. You seem to be talking about local village mentality not a community. Example: we are a community here at SM. We have our likes dislikes and annoyance but we have come together for a common cause. (supposedly) we post topics and discuss them for preparing to survive any SHIFT event. This is an online community.

    Currently our society is designed to be mobil. aka cars telephones etc so you can have and create a community online or on the phone with people who are like minded. If this goes away, human beings will create community more locally. We are human we need interactions of other people.

    Just because community is different doesnt mean its gone or non existent. I find when someone complains about what is missing or not like the 'good ole' days ... that they don't fully appreciate what is in front of them right now.

    Back to @Motomom34 original scenario.

    It wont be easy to find who to trust and create a community again as everyone will be on high alert for survival. The difficult like to cross will be how to get an even exchange without getting taken or having to take from someone. Creating a community of people who stand on their own two feet and is mutually beneficial also sets you up as a target for raiders.

    The 1st step for me is always, what can't I live without.
    1) clean water (can I trade water for other goods), how do i protect the equipment that keeps my water clean. I currently have a spring that is boxed in with old rock and has moss and other 'weeds' growing in it that keep things clean, this is at a BOLA not locally, I also have filters and a small ability to test the water if I think the up stream source is being contaminated. The real question is how long will the filters last if I have to use them. At some point even those give out.

    Which brings me to the second thing. Location and food. But I will let someone else tackle those
     
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  8. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    So--I'd provide what the local folks needed and didn't have: transportation.

    I'd move their cottage goods (and crops) from Point A to Point B, for a fair share--say, 10%, to start.

    I'd start off with river shipping. A huge tonnage of goods went up and down the Mississippi by man power alone back in the old old days. I'd nab a few barges and start a freight and passenger service between New Orleans and Great Falls, Montana. Men on sweeps, with mule teams on the easy stretches. Plus sails where it was feasible.

    I'd expand into wagon freight with short inland routes from the river, which would get me into horse and mule breeding and sales in a big way.

    I'd make deals with local governments at every stop on the waterway for first dibs on all that useless railroad stock just lying around, and the railways to run them on.

    No locomotives? No problem! I'd haul flatbed rail cars with mule teams until I made enough money to start building and running steam trains.

    I'd eventually expand to transoceanic shipping and recreate the Triangle Trade.

    And while I was doing that I'd be getting my filthy-rich fingers fingers into the oil business--pumping and refining to get gas and diesel engines back in service.

    Mostly mine: I'd make the same kind of deals for abandoned trucks of all sizes with local governments, putting them back in service for the greater good of the people (and my wallet).

    Five years later, I'd change my first name to Mister, and my last name to Magnate.

    And then, having the transportation problems whipped, I'd get into providing local electric power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
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  9. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    My thoughts are similar to Unc's.
     
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  10. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The problem with creating these communities before-hand is that not many are willing to take it seriously until they have to walk back from the empty grocery store because someone jacked their last 3 gallons of gas while they were inside. Necessity is the mother of invention. I saw this after Katrina. I also saw small communities unite to gather what they could salvage while living in tents where their houses once stood.It is there that I saw the best example of karma I have ever witnessed, but that's another tale for the telling around the cook-fire.
     
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  11. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++

    @Seacowboys I think you have captured all of our interest, certainly mine. We're all ears!

    Oh! BTW I will be contracting to @UncleMorgan to provide security for all modes of transportation, a Pinkerton Security service. We will not only guard your shipments but bring those to a rope...er, glup, I mean, a court...for swift justice.

    The other thing I would like to work on is bio-fuel as the sooner we got the tractors running the sooner we have excess food.
    I always wanted an old VW to tinker with to get it to run on alternate fuel...I want to try potatoes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2016
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  12. pearlselby

    pearlselby Monkey++

    @Motomom34, I have been thinking about this thread all day. I think the first sentence of @Seacowboys first reply is the key.

    Thank you for giving me something to ponder.
     
  13. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++ Site Supporter++

    Rebuild to what end? The America we have even now? No thanks. The day the power grid comes back up we will be dependent. We will have learned nothing and be all to happy to embrace the light once more. I will end my days subsistence farming, glad to be shed of the mess we have made.
     
  14. cabot

    cabot Monkey

    I am not sure I would want to rebuild, just look at this world we live in where corporations control everything even our goverment. 99% of the worlds wealth is in the hands of 1%. Lets face it the wars we see today are not for freedom or oppression but really for the worlds resources. The hot spots of the world are where the oil and gas is located. And the next big resource the corporations are going after is water.
    This type of society does not cherish the individual its based on consumerism and making us all dependent even our educational system is structured this way and real life skills are being lost.
    I think the future if something like this ever happens would be better if it was community based with small pockets and communities supporting each other.
     
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  15. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    We live in a "throw-away" world. Years ago, when bottled water first showed up, I laughed at the thought of why anyone would buy water when nearly everyone had a garden hose. There were drinking fountains in all public places, even if some of them said "Whites Only", There were telephone booths and if you could find a dime, you could talk to somebody, if you didn't find a dime, you could still talk to somebody, they just had to agree to pay the dime. This required people working together, automation has no humanity. Disposable will have little use in a restructuring community. Nor will the designed obsolescence that prevails our market place. My granny earned her house-hold budget by selling surplus milk, butter, and eggs, my grandfather built cabinets and furniture and logged and plowed with a mule. Ball mason jars were stacked on shelves in a root-cellar, it was also the family "Tornado Shelter". Our dogs herded, hunted, and guarded, none of them sat in our laps and begged at the dinner table. Cats were for keeping rats out of the feed, so were snakes. I remember when the sale of a load of white oak lumber was traded for a new table saw and planer, and how much our lives improved with the greater efficiency in my papaw's shop. Neighbors heard of his new power tools and came to see if he could find the time now to repair or replace broken furnishings and cabinets and he could, because of the more efficient tools. Tools were built to last a life time, now they are pretty much designed to have to be replaced regularly just to keep everybody working. I went to cut my grass recently with a lawn-mower I bought last year at Lowes. There was no choke, just a rubber priming bulb and it had rotted and broke. I went to the hardware store and bought a replacement bulb but when I went to install it, the little plastic keeper that held it in place had also became brittle and broke. Nobody had them in stock so I paid someone to cut my grass and ordered one on line and thought, while waiting I would change the oil in the engine but to my surprise, there is no longer a means to drain the old oil; they have removed the die-cast drain plug from their engine block mold! A standard thing to allow you to maintain your investment but they purposely removed it because if you can maintain a piece of equipment, then you don't have to buy a new one every year or two.
    Mad Max couldn't envision the invasive use of drones and auto-bots to monitor and influence the herding of folks that will happen. Urbanization of masses will probably be a forced issue in a futile attempt at rebuilding by the massive corporate structure. They have the assets to selectively herd and contain people with the promise of protein, shelter, and common banner. I have seen people herded like animals and happy to accept it for the free biscuit and a clean place to shit.I have helped herd these folks and thought I was doing a real service and certainly was, to some extent. Once martial law is declared, as in any national emergency, the rights go right out the door for the good of all, except that the good of all is defined by those that control the migration. I wish I could see a serious redevelopment of community now, similar to maybe an Amish community but designed to scale back and continue to generate in a micr-environment, should the infrastructure fail and it will eventually fail.
     
  16. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    I agree with most of that. My generation has a general apathy about consuming goods. The very concept of not buying junk, and purchasing something that will last (metal canteen vs disposable water bottle, for example) has caused people to DISTANCE themselves from me for my "radical" ideas.

    Now, I am not placing blame, because I primarily do not know who to blame, since this phenomenon is endemic in my generation, but I would like to see a pole shift in that mentality should I be around to rebuild.

    My wife is a seamstress. Any fabric you want, we can probably find. Custom fit your favorite style to you, or draft a pattern so that you can have a unique item that suits your needs? Fine and dandy. Made by a professional from quality materials that will last for years? Great. Cost 25% more than a last 5 washes shirt from the local global retailing chain, screw that, and quit wasting your time on that antiquated BS.
     
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  17. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    I had a response or my 2 cents when I worked on this topic but I keep getting diverted with each response because there are many avenues and points I hadn't considered. I always look at the simple issues that arise, like when you run out of canning lids after 3 years, now what. Those are small issues but actually big issues because people will depend on canned food to see them through the winter. So the absent canning lid issue led me to think wax for sealing, which led me to bee keeping because I need that wax. Beekeeping in itself is a chore and one that I currently do not do nor does anyone around me.

    It seems that when one looks past the first few years, you do tend to get overwhelmed and think you are not prepared. My first materialist American reaction is to go buy stuff, more stuff that will bring me further into the future, covering my needs. Then the light comes on again. It is not about spending my way into the future, that is what the country is doing and that is the reason I am here because you cannot spend your way into security.

    Excellent thought provoking responses so far.
     
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  18. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    1st.. I'm joining @UncleMorgan 's tribe. He may look like a gorilla but he's a gorrilla with a good, canney brain. =)

    2nd.. @Motomom34 I've been looking at rubber and tattler lids for the same reasons you are looking at bees and wax. And I'm left wondering "could you use a cut up innertube" if you had too?
     
  19. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    I had something in the back of my mind about expedient jar seals....and it didn't take long to re-find it.

    In Napoleon's time, when jar canning was invented, the jars were stoppered by corks and sealed by a mixture of lime and skim milk.

    (Which sounds a lot like the homemade paint western pioneers used on their houses and barns.)

    The hand-blown jars were very irregular, so the corks had to be whittled to fit, and they spanned the entire mouth of the jar.

    Now we have metal lids to do the spanning, and screw tops to hold them on tight.

    I would bet daughters to lugnuts that a thin leather gasket ring, immersed in the sealer/paint, would be 100% airtight with a lid and ring screwed tightly down on it.

    This could be a very important survival/prepper technique for when new lids get scarce. And it can definitely be done from start to finish in the home.

    Someone should try this out on a nice jar of sugary fruit and see if it holds for a year.

    Cut the leather gasket from the thin chrome-tanned leather clothing (coats & skirts mostly) you can buy super-cheap in thrift stores.

    Another super-cheap source of high-quality flawless thin chrome-tanned leather is the upholstery from formerly-expensive automobiles awaiting the crusher in junkyards. That could be an almost never-ending supply.

    And, taking the logic one small step further, a solid cardboard gasket would probably work just as well as leather. I used to make Harley head-gaskets out of Domino's Pizza boxes, and they held up just as well as the factory gaskets. In canning cardboard gaskets would absorb the "paint" and seal up tight.

    See: Canning - History

    (Heh! This was fun!)
     
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  20. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    lol @UncleMorgan you are a genius! I never thought of looking up the history. Leather and wax would give a great seal
     
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