Treating the Constitution Like Silly Putty

Good video IMHO about the subject...





Treating the Constitution Like Silly Putty

 

Sniffs of syllogism/

 

When the premises are questionable...does the conclusion necessarily follow as being true?

Silly putty is a synthetic chemical product...Constitutional case law decisions bear no resemblance to silly putty....the debate between Originalism and a living Constitution has been long, and at times, intellectually brutal. Both sides have some valid points...but honestly, living today in a world that the founding fathers would have found it difficult comprehending in so many ways...are 21st Century folk bound absolutely in concrete to the political, legal, and technological understanding of the world as it was of the late 18th Century?

The Living Constitution | University of Chicago Law School

Living Constitution Resource | Learn About, Share and Discuss Living Constitution At Popflock.com

 

There is no difference in the 18th century and today We live we die there are children and no matter what gender bending is trying to make out of thin air there will be mothers fathers even if only from harvested embryo and seed. The government is suppose to uphold the word they put down as law there is no slavery and freedom ends at the point of my and another's nose, Then there is privacy well now that is where the power want to know all see all and use it against its enemies without sharing and hiding their crimes well that flies in the face of equality.

We / people always try to define ourselves as different unique or superior, I can say that at the moment of dying all that bluster and pride slips away all the money and power mean nothing your sexuality possessions of no count and words you said come back and convict you.

We all know freedom is not free everyone can't be a movie star, Rin Tin Tin made it further than 99% of the human actors and he did not have any real speaking parts.

OK let us say we change the constitution, that will make millions guilty of crimes that did not exist before and what will be better than what we have ? socialism communism Maoism or Putinism hey he's fresh new and with it rides shirtless on the backs of a horse, or will we turn our lives over to the EU you know the faceless government over all of Europe they are not elected they cannot be removed they have allowed millions to invade Europe and allowed those invaders to rape murder and take over property that never belonged to them so would we aqueous to them ?

So just what parts need to change limits on free speech remove the second fiddle with the 4th and 5th and rewrite the absolutes to under certain circumstances, and who will benefit and who will loose it all, because the people that paid are due something or nothing? will your children have a collar so if they go berserk they can zap them into compliance. will we all have leg monitors will water to bathe and drink be rationed. will we all have to wear the same clothes I love that commie grey or 30,000 dollar pants suits like Killery Klinton. I like the idea no more marriage we swap mates by lottery since some do not want to be male or female you would not have the choice of male female top or bottom. limit of one child per life time ? or hey gender assignment by lottery so 63 chances to be who or what ? no more religion no praying no churches no bells priest preachers just a drive in absolution center drop in a quarter and your mistakes are erased digitally. No vehicles only public transportation no homes you have to live in the vicinity where you work. Well we have to figure out what to do with the feeble retarded and the lame the old senile and generally FU people so euthanasia,, would be a guaranteed right no problem finding organs automatic organ doner.

I mean if we are going to fix everything, and whats there now we are told is not timely or original too damn much religiosity and rules people do not want to feel bad or guilty so let us give everyone a trophy different sexes so we all can understand and we could even change colors there are pills that make you dark I imagine they can make a pill to make you light so no one is race religion color or sexually feel disenfranchised we will all be medium brown and look like Kojak.

OH one better no borders or passports we would all be citizens of the world no more treason no more standing or kneeling for anthems we can all just listen to a corporate jingle-- We are the world we are the children, well we won't be able to say children as it leaves out to many people we want to be more inclusive . no more ethnic food reminds us of differences, and everyone makes the same pay business will be run by the state...or a ashram full of hippies.

well a long way to tell you someone we will get screwed, and we already as a world tried all that and it failed miserably. People are not interested in fairness they want special treatment to either be excluded from responsibility or included in partying and fun without the STD's hangovers and overdoses you know, totally irresponsible let a computer make the rules and the results hell just get an old Magic 8 ball and ask it. if you think the generation that made the computer a home appliance and swore to us it would make everything simpler faster and give us access at our finger tips was full of crap as a Christmas turkey. I would not trust them to flush after using the toilet much less wash their hands.

 

Yes. The forefathers knew very well, what they were doing. They were men well ahead of their time.

 

Doesn't matter what is written if they simply choose to ignore it.

For example, it quite plainly states in Art1 Sec 10 that "no State shall use any thing but gold and silver in payment of debt..." Can anyone point out a State that is paying their debts using metals ?

 

Apparently they were not so well ahead of their time that they foresaw the necessity of abolishing slavery....and the granting of universal suffrage to women, god forbid.

 

They didn't abolish slavery they just co-opted it to the IRS so now we work for 6 months for nothing but in return our owners do not use the same medical care or retirement does that not seem like a feudal system surf and lords salves and masters ? many of the race pot stirrers in power are behind in paying taxes and it looks like all the ones that are getting pay to lead are lining their pockets with insider knowledge all the way down to local government I see it all the time.

 

A few thousand years ago, several groups of people living in what is now the middle east developed to the point that they were living in large enough groups that interactions beyond the family became a major problem. Several solutions emerged, either with the help of God or the leadership of the people, that lead to a system of laws.Most have faded thru time, the Egyptian system of the rule of the Pharaohs as the gods representative on earth comes to mind, although some seek to modify it to suit their needs, but one that started out as good sense to a bunch of sheep and goat herders seems to still work. We don't even know for sure what language they spoke, but the actions of the individual and their problems in interacting with others, has not changed. If you wish to live in harmony with your neighbors, keep what you earn, stay alive, raise a family, have quite a bit of personal freedom, lead a happy life and die of old age, the Ten Commandments still seem to work quite well and the Constitution as written seems to be as good of a set of rules as any. If however, you wish for someone else to raise your children, like a cuckoo bird, feed you, clothe you, protect you, and allow you to do what ever you wish, etc, you may well insist on a "living" constitution, or Karl Marx, or the latest set of social rules proposed by the liberal left or the leadership of Venezuela, or such. The problem that always seems to occur under such a system is that sooner or later you run out of workers willing to turn over their labor so that you can lead the life of ease you wish to lead, or someone else's "freedom" requires that you give up yours. We are in the process of being lead down a path that has always lead to ruin before by people who both benefit from the changes and believe the path leads somewhere else this time. Doesn't look good and while the question of slavery and the old system is valid, it would seem that the actions of the last 150 years, would make it a moot point.. My ancestors who were American Indian, or more remotely German peasants would argue that not only the present colored had problems in the past.

 

If you took an oath to protect and defend the constitution and do every thing but, you are in violation that oath.

 

We used to all them traitors, now I think we call them democrats, do as I say not as I do or I'll arrest you, or we will sit a special counsel.

 

hmmm I think I may have asked this before but...

chel... does someone pay you to reply/react to such post/things?

I have seen reports that the left does this...

the claim is they have professional/ or perhaps semiprofessional people that troll boards constantly...

it's their job... ?

I have noticed when someone post something of this nature you SEEM to very often be right there with a reply...

that SEEMS to attack said post...

muddy the waters kinda thing?

IIRC you are not even a citizen of this country?

yet you seem to believe your world view is the very best possible and should be ours...

and at times I have to say you SEEM to come across as very arrogant, and disrespectful...

of us... our nation, Constitution, and Bill of Rights...

and I wonder if you are either deliberately obtuse or perhaps very uneducated on this subjects...

that you SEEM to profess to know and fully understand

I also find myself thinkin that you tend toward a more pure progressive/socialist/communist thinking?

 

To me it's like the Bible do you take on face value or do you interpret the meaning of each word
Then the arguments start

 

His country was originally populated by criminals.

Spoiler: Australians, except chello, please read this.

My apologies to the other Australians on this forum.

 

Didn't watch the link, but any time a President makes an Executive Order that bypasses the authority of the Judicial or Legislative branches the Constitution is indeed treated like silly putty. Unsurprisingly Wilson, FDR, and Obama were the biggest offenders.

OVERREACH: These presidents are the worst ‘executive order offenders’ — here’s why

 

@chelloveck "...but honestly, living today in a world that the founding fathers would have found it difficult comprehending in so many ways...are 21st Century folk bound absolutely in concrete to the political, legal, and technological understanding of the world as it was of the late 18th Century?"

You'll probably faint but I actually agree with you - well - on the first half. There is no way our Founding Fathers could have foreseen the technological world we live in just like we cannot foresee the 25th century even though we have a better idea of it. However, I am not so sure the actual Constitution needs changed (need to think on that) but would like to see a few more amendments and a few stronger ones like the elimination of professional politicians with term limits, a stronger 10th Amendment to get the Federal government out of our lives, most of all, a Balance Budget Amendment. in my mind the debate between the 'Originalism vs. living Constitution' is sort of moot because we have already amended the Constitution, 27 times if I remember correctly.

"Apparently they were no so well ahead of their time that they foresaw the necessity of abolishing slavery....and the granting of universal suffrage to women, god forbid."
As you well know, there would have been no Constitution if they held out for the abolishment of slavery. As for, universal suffrage, I have rebuttal; however, I would bet it was more along the lines that they could not foresee that women would even want it in 1787, same as they could not foresee the 'political, legal, and technological understanding' of the 21st century...but they did make it so things could be changed to allow universal suffrage, when its time came, and that does show forethought...

 

It seems that the author of post #1 would rather publically attack me in open forum rather than PM me with his objections, rather than defending the video that he reposted, or actually critiquing what I had written in posts #3 and #7. Lest I be banned from this thread for a diversion from the OP, I consider it fair to exercise the option of using an equal opportunity to refute the criticisms made of me personally....item by item.

I am happy for moderators to delete this post, or put it into the Inferno Master Dump Thread...Provided that the same fate is also applied to post #12, which is itself, irrelevant to the thread topic.

Yes, I do believe you have made similar slanderous remarks before...instead of replying to posts #3 and #7 and challenging them, you have instead chosen to take the intellectually lazy (or dishonest) route of ad hominem attack.

Argumentum ad hominem - RationalWiki

No. I receive no pay nor other inducements to contribute to SM discussion threads. I have no political associations with any other organisations in the USA, or anywhere else for that matter. What I do, I do for free. Some people do Sudoku, jigsaw puzzles, cryptic crosswords etc for their pleasure and entertainment...I find entertainment and pleasure in deconstructing bad arguments and fallacious rhetoric. Almost 11 years, nearly 10.1K posts, and some 15.8K likes....would seem to be an astonishing commitment for a culture wars mercenary...I'm an unpaid volly contrarian...happy to smack down bad arguments wherever they come from.

I don't doubt that that may actually happen...I had that suspicion of Taku...who has had a membership here since 2014, but contributed few posts until the lead up to the 2016 US Presidential elections, when he went ballistic up until the present POTUS was inaugurated, when he tapered off his posts to virtually nothing, and deleted all of the posts published during the lead up to the 2016 election....I have wondered whether he was one of Putin's little helpers. Perhaps we may yet see a resurgence of Taku posts (that's if he decides to keep using that particular alias) in the lead up to the 2020 POTUS elections if Donny boy should throw his hat in the ring. As to whether I am a professional / semi professional troll...well I derive no income from it.....but if someone wants to throw money at me...please send it via SM member 14143 to whom I'll happily share any dividend.

If I have the time and inclination, then I may post an immediate reply...naturally, low hanging fruit are the easiest and quickest to reply to and despatch. Sometimes, as is the case with many of your own posts (but not exclusively yours) that are merely copy and pasted from elsewhere, (without much, if any original thought by the re-poster), the effort of responding to a Gish Gallop Gish Gallop - RationalWikiGish Gallop - RationalWiki of crappy argumentation takes more time and effort than was taken by the original reposter. The reply may be subsequently longer in coming.

Citizenship of the USA is not a requirement for membership or posting privileges at SM. The implicit point being made is that only US citizens have any standing to remark on issues arising in the USA. Your logical fallacy is

Ergo Decedo – Latin for “Well Then, F**k Off” (Basically) How to Spot a BS Argument #2: Ergo DecedoHow to Spot a BS Argument #2: Ergo Decedo

Well, I applaud your powers as a mind reader and psychic, and thank you for projecting on to me beliefs that I don't actually hold. I think that the problem is with your perceptions of me, rather than what I actually believe, (though I guess my beliefs undoubtedly grind your gears from time to time also) My world view is not the only possible world view, and certainly not necessarily the best possible world view. There are some world views however, that are worse than the one I hold to...if I encounter them, and they are worthy of critique, then I will offer my critique.

You have just made a tone argument.
Tone argument - RationalWikiTone argument - RationalWiki

I have no control over your perceptions of me, nor of others who perhaps share your feelings about me. I must admit that I have mixed feelings about America, and Americans...ranging from admiration to despair. I don't hold to the notion of unquestioning allegiance to "Australia, right or wrong", and I see no need to subscribe to the same principle with regard to other nations. I do subscribe to supporting the best, and critiquing the worst aspects of any cultures, nations, or belief systems. Occasionally some people get butt hurt about the views that I express, and quite frankly, if their snow-flakery is giving them melting moments...they have the option of hiding themselves (and their sensitivities) behind an 'iggy' wall, or toughening up, and doing a little self reflection about why they are being triggered by what I write; or preferably, making better, stronger arguments less vulnerable to critique.

Neither...but thank you for the ad hominem attack...no need to wonder any further.

Am happy for you to cite any instances where I have actually made that profession. Your logical fallacy is...

You might actually try defending your own propositions instead of casting doubt on me
by poisoning the well through guilt by association : your logical fallacy is

Poisoning the well - RationalWiki

 

Anyone who thinks others should rule over them or make the rules is a vassal not a free or responsible individual. next if anyone believes that they have the right to remove or restrict rights form anyone else they are a totalitarian ego maniac, rules or law should only be applied to those that damage personal property falsely try to ruin a persons character by slander, injure or kill persons or take what they did not earn. beyond that there should be no law or rules. The law has tried to get to complicated and specific and that is what twists it so any lawyer can find a loophole.

Celloveck it does seem that some of your ideas are like looking at the leaning tower of Pisa from the back side you know, leaning a little to the left If those policies worked then all of the world would follow them but, as we see they don't and every government eventually needs to be put in it's place, I pray it is not violent. I have seen what it has done in Cuba, Nicaragua El Salvador, Venezuela, Portugal and Spain the ones that moderated are doing well the ones that hardened are falling apart and some went thought horrible civil wars. These are the policies and political climates some of your posts promote, does history not show the result of those policies and politics as failed ideas