US Senate lights a 'Russian Sanctions' fire cracker for Congress to put under TRump's seat.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by chelloveck, Jun 16, 2017.

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  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

  2. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    Investigate Ukraine attempted election rigging in Clintons favor.

    Ukraine Tried to Tip the Election in Clinton’s Favor

    Yesterday, Politico reported that the Ukrainian Government worked to aid Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential elections. The actions taken by government officials included disseminating “documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers.”

    Those documents implicated Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, who worked as an adviser for now-ousted Ukrainian President Viktor F. Yanukovych. However, the concerns that the documents raised weren’t in fact over any quasi-Russian ties, though partisan reporting pushed his narrative. Rather, the documents raised the question of whether Manafort declared the income that he had received from the position. The Podesta Group, a lobbying firm co-founded by Clinton Campaign Chair John Podesta, also conducted work for Yanukovych. However, the Manafort narrative not only painted Trump as pro-Russian, but also provided the Clinton campaign with a smear campaign while reaffirming its stance against Russia. It was in Ukraine’s best interest to tilt the election in support of Clinton, who strongly advocated for providing Ukraine with military aid and financial support in order to fight Russian separatists in the country.

    Politico noted that Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American working as a consultant for the Democratic National Committee (DNC), met with top Ukrainian Officials in Washington D.C. about forcing Manafort’s resignation in order to perpetuate the narrative that Trump is connected to Russia. Both Chalupa and her sister Andrea have strongly pushed the anti-Russian narrative on social media, in addition to advocating that the electors of the electoral college defect from Trump.

    Hillary Clinton’s Ukraine Problem

    Hillary and Bill Clinton run the Clinton Foundation, established by the couple. The foundation accepts monetary donations from foreign donors, amassing to billions of dollars. Some of the top donors of the foundation were Ukrainian oligarchs. One of them, Victor Pinchuk, was a former member of the Ukrainian Parliament and a strong advocate of Neoliberalism in Ukraine. Pinchuk became wealthy during chaotic privatization of large state enterprises after the country’s separation from the Soviet Union.

    In return, the Clinton Global Initiative which is a wing of the Clinton Foundation that coordinates charitable projects but does not handle money, made a pledge to Mr. Pinchuk, to train future Ukrainian leaders. Several alumni from this training program are now in the current Ukraine Parliament. The same government that came to power after the bloody coup d’etat."
    Mountainman, enloopious and Motomom34 like this.
  3. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    What Russian connections??? The sanctions are due to Russia's action in the Ukraine! And, frankly, I think it's ridiculous when the USA can't or won't do a damn real thing to assist the Ukrainians so we need to stay the hell out of it. Why? Because of the economics of it. Money. It wouldn't pay to assist them because they are so deep in debt the EU and the USA together can't pull them out we need to sit down and color and certainly keep our big mouth shut because we are not going to stand on the firing line with them - no way. Hell, there is no way we didn't know they were going into the Ukraine just like we knew they were going into Georgia. We either gave approval or decided to ignore it.

    Also of note is who voted no: "Republican Senator Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders, an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, were the only two "no" votes." And, if I were there I would have voted 'no' also!

    Anyway, continue to put your 'Madcow Maddow' spin on it as the vote had nothing to do with would think you are after her job lately because your ravings are as bad.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I got a letter from my health care provider. I opened the envelope, read and my heart sank. They are raising my rates another 8%. It is depressing. I am almost at the point were it would be cheaper to pay the penalty and cancel my insurance. Roll the dice and take the gamble of not having insurance for me and the boys. That is my world and all I heard day after day is Russia and Trump. I can't take much more. Citizens are drowning, I was on a real estate site and 1/3 of the houses listed were pre-foreclosure. But does that matter? NO! No, what matters to the FT's in DC is Trump and Russia.

    I do not have TV news. I found a radio station that doesn't play the news because most of what is discussed does not relate to my world. The games are played day after day by those FT's in DC and the media; meanwhile the people of the country keep putting one foot in front of another and pray they do not fall and break and arm because they cannot afford it.
  5. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    Who would win in a fist fight, Trump or Congress?
  6. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    I hear your frustrations. My daughter cancelled her insurance with the company she is with. She doesn't make that much to start with, but she was paying about 500 a month, and couldn't keep her bills up. That's where I came in and it's put a hurting on me. When bamacare started , I made up my mind that I would refuse to buy it, I think it's unconstitutional to be forced to buy in to it. I know it helps some people, but to the ones that can just barely afford it, can't afford it now because of the rate hikes. Plus the high deductibles involved. Luckily , I fall under the VA , otherwise , I'd be paying those fines. Good luck, hopefully they'll get something straightened out. It's just those damned politicians won't work together, they refuse to, they're in their own little protected world while we suffer. I wish I had some answers for you .
    chelloveck and Motomom34 like this.
  7. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    The ACA was designed to fail. It was assumed that Hillary would follow Obama and "fix" the crisis with a single payer system. Once there is a single payer system the state owns your body and not you, because whatever they deem unhealthy now prevents the resources needed to treat others if you engage in that unhealthy lifestyle. Watch carb restricted diets become effectively outlawed even though in my case I'm now down a total of 100 lbs by removing carbs from my diet. Don't think for one second you won't have to scan your health card at the grocery store to make sure you haven't exceeded your quota of "unhealthy" foods.

    The solution is, and has always been, a robust capitalistic market. Get the parasitic government overhead out of the system and let the free market (with minimal restrictions) take care of it. Prior to the ACA each state had a fund set aside to provide care for those with serious pre-existing conditions and it worked.
    Gator 45/70, Ura-Ki and Motomom34 like this.
  8. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    DUDE! Mom is pissed!!:D
  9. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    That is exactly what I am doing, rolling the dice. I am gambling that we won't get seriously ill and that we will not have to pay a penalty. The chances are good that we won't but right now, if I went to purchase medical insurance it would cost me ~$1200-$1500 a month with a deductible of ~$14,000 so what good is it unless I get hit by a truck? Frankly, I am a proponent of a Single Payer System like the rest of the modern world has and I won't shed a tear if we have to cut back on our Foreign Aid or some other programs to achieve it. Yes, I know, @3M-TA3 you do not agree but I do not believe that the state will end up owning your body and telling you what you can and cannot eat. It doesn't happen in the other numerous countries and so it certainly won't happen here. I have heard all the silly horror stories but have seen healthcare in a zillion other countries first hand and it works! Germany, England, France, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, on and on and on actually give something back to their citizens - healthcare (which is different from health insurance, America!!!). It is not perfect but it works and its enough. All we get is more taxes and more silly-ass wars that never end and have no rhyme nor reason. The HealthCare industry is as much to blame as the government in keeping costs high - it's nothing more than Blackmail. Actually, it's the perfect blackmail as it's perfectly legal! The AMA, the hospitals, the insurance companies, drug companies and our fat-ass representatives who won't do a damn thing to remedy the problem are all in on it. Don't you think if there was any other way that the other countries would have tried it by now? Anyway, I am forced to roll the dice because I will not be forced by my government to purchase something that has no value for me...I'll be damn if I will just give my money away to them as they take too much already and give me very little in return except grief.
    Mountainman, Ura-Ki and Motomom34 like this.
  10. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    We shall see. Single payer is not coming from the goodness of their hearts; it is coming from their desire to control everything they can. It's roots are in tyranny and nothing more, and this is where we will finally cease to be citizens and become subjects. I stand by these predictions if we get, and likely will get, a single payer system:
    • Mandated programs for people who fall outside the bounds of desired BMI or other health indices.
    • Forced dietary restrictions including quotas on politically incorrect foods like red meat.
    • Tax penalties for those who do not meet health standards or show an acceptable improvement.
    • Tax increases that will far outweigh our current premiums including employer contributions. Add an extra non value adding layer to anything and costs will go up every time.
    • Restrictions of Constitutional rights such as the ability to own firearms if you fail to pass or take mandatory mental examinations. "Did you ever vote Republican? Good, no guns for you!".
    • "Oh, by the way, there was a medical study showing that guns cause violence. No guns for anybody except the authorities! Non compliance means that your quota card won't allow you to purchase any food. "
    Please list all the things that socialized anything has done better than free enterprise. Please remember that in the countries you list as single payer success stories have their military expenditures effectively subsidized by the US. Our military presence and agreement to back them means they can spend a much lower percentage of their GDP on defense than they otherwise would.
    Ura-Ki and Motomom34 like this.
  11. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    That is putting it mildly. I am sitting here rubbing two nickels together hoping to make a dollar. Those news people who make a million plus have no clue. Neither does plastic face Pelosi.

    I haven't donated to the food shelf in weeks. We live fine but every time I have to cut back on a charity it sucks. How many others have had to cut back on their giving because the government is concerned about Trump and the Russians.

    I am so flaming pissed!
    Ura-Ki, chelloveck, SB21 and 2 others like this.
  12. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    I remember a few years back before the banks had all their problems. I was getting harassed a lot by Washington Mutual bank who had given me something like $250 in fees on a closed account and was demanding money. I was stressing out so much about my credit and all that kind of stuff and was spending every spare cent I had on inflation and bills like that. I had no money for myself but they got to pay themselves plenty.

    Then there was the bailouts. I was pissed. I stopped paying everything. I wrote everyone nasty letters telling them to get bent.

    Then something strange happened. They all started leaving me alone. It seems that when you try to appease them they get worse and worse and worse but when you tell them to go pound sand they back off. I also started having money in my pockets again.

    This health insurance situation reminds me of the last 3 bubbles bursting. I don't play those games anymore. I am down right hostel to people who tell me I HAVE to buy something. I went to CA for a week, signed up for health care, never used it, moved back out of state, and am on record as having it and now they can't fine me. You just need an address.

    And if all else fails just remember that they are trying to enslave you. Obamacare IS the means to divide the country into upper and lower classes. Rulers and serfs. How much are you going to take and what are you willing to do?

    ...what happens if I get sick? I'd rather be free.
  13. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    Pissed. ,,,,,you have a right to be. It's going to be the Pissed off Americans that fixes this country, not the whiny pansy assed ones bouncing around crying about their rights to be recognized.
    So when it's time for the Pissed off Americans to make their stand , make sure y'all let me know so I don't miss the bus.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Okay, you are on record. But, I ask you this, does the Dutch or Belgians have to do any of this? Of course not... The Germans? Nope. And, all those countries taxes and quality of life is same as ours. And, referencing military expenditures...good. Good those countries would have to foot more of their own defense. Or, are we truly the world's policeman and if we are we need to be paid for it. Also, what was the last figure for the F-35 program, $1.5 trillion? Per plane $135 million each and cost $400 billion before we even got anything (2x what was projected...of course)? Are they out of their minds but won't talk about real Health Care? What about having over 20 aircraft carriers of which 10 (or is it 11?) are super-carriers compared with the other countries on the planet who have none or at the very most - one? Carriers are made to project power - 'project' being the key word. I am not saying we need to be isolationists but it would do us no harm to tend to our own knitting and take care of things at home for a decade or so. I am very pro-military but the American taxpayer has been out-and-out duped by playing on our patriotism to pay for a military for the world, not for us, for we certainly don't need a F-35 and neither does our military not at that cost...and to be used against who? Same for medicines that I can purchase much cheaper almost anywhere else in the world. Anyway... I won't rant on because it won't do any good but I am convinced the American taxpayer is getting peed on and told it's raining and until they/we wake up we are going to continue to stink of urine.

    EDIT: "Please list all the things that socialized anything has done better than free enterprise." Free enterprise has failed us in this regard. In fact, it got us here. The Health Care industry can charge anything they want for their services - and - they do. We pay for them or we die. I can't even get a simple written quote for a simple operation. I can't even buy a simple antibiotic in this country without having a prescription from a doctor which a visit will cost me $200+ for 10 minutes or less. They play under none of the normal Free Enterprise rules. None! We are cornered and have no options. The entire system has failed! Hell, we don't even have enough doctors. Why is that? Is the rest of the world smarter than us so they have more medical students? I. Don't. Think. So. Free enterprise will never resolve this because they are making a mega-fortune from it - period! There is no way they'll fix it. No way. Even our representatives which could help but will not due to Insurance Companies monies. I truly fail to see what is different in regards to spending my tax money on an aircraft carrier and F-35s or healthcare and we certainly need the latter more. Free enterprise is not going to fix this problem - hell - it's just making it worse.
    Mountainman, Ura-Ki and Motomom34 like this.
  15. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    here is one last tidbit...reference the F-35 program..."Christopher Mimms of the Wall Street Journal fired off a tweet that noted that the plane's projected opportunity cost (through will be 2038) could have provided 20 years of free college for every student in the U.S."...yeah, but excuse me why I sell my house to pay for my triple-bypass. BTW my new residence is that refrigerator box under the overpass. We pay and pay and pay but what do we really get in return? An F-35...which I can't even drive to the store.
  16. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Where is @chelloveck? Posts this stuff, gets us riled and leaves.

    Maybe we ought to start rioting or something. Being polite and rational hasn't gotten the American workers very far. I say this because the people near that apartment fire are protesting which is headed towards riots. They do protest really well over there
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  17. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    Doesn't work. Yep, we know this. The Chell is one, but there are obvious others to those who read the monkey widely.
  18. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Congress....TRump has such little hands.
  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I have to sleep sometime, Motomom, and my download allowance has been used up for the am relying on Maccas Wi-fry for the time being, which although cheap, is not very convenient at times.

    Australians protest at times, but usually not involving fisticuffs, and no wanton, random damage and destruction or looting.

    I'm sorry about the plight of those who are caught in a sucky health insurance Australia we suffer under a part private / part socialised health care system....few, if any, are denied necessary health care.
    Gator 45/70 and Motomom34 like this.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    @chelloveck We allow sleep, hope it was peaceful. Now, who in Australia determined what healthcare is necessary? I am getting ready to jump on the single payer system wagon because Obamacare is draining people. I know a guy who is 60. He is looking at $1500 a no the fort him and his wife. You shouldn't be penalized cause you are old.

    PS- sorry for derailing your thread. I can't even remember what it was about.
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