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Venezuela- The Collapse

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Motomom34, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Venezuela has been in a slow decline. Year after year the situation has been getting worse. We had a thread here on the monkey in 2014- Venezuela scans your thumbprint insuring you don’t buy too many groceries | Survival Monkey Forums The rationing of food was happening. Now there is not enough food. The government of Venezuela has declared a "nutritional emergency".

    Venezuela Is Out of Food: Here's What an Economic Collapse Really Looks Like

    Look at how long their collapse has been happening. I think most of us think and plan on a collapse happening in a matter of months but that usually isn't the case. An economic collapse is a slow bleeding all the while government officials are assuming more control while they "attempt" to save the country.

    At the bottom of the activist post article they have steps to take to prepare for the collapse. We all know these steps but are we truly prepared? A slow bleed for 2-3 years can really deplete your preps. With a slow collapse people will still be mobile for the beginning years of the spiral, I think that would be a dangerous time because people can witness if you are looking stable during the spiral.

    One other thing I ask myself is if the inner city, the entitlement crowd will calmly stand in line 4 hours for a small bag of food. We have a pretty selfish, materialistic, give me now mentality in America. In my mind I see things getting ugly a lot quicker because we have a large population of people who are used to receiving, not waiting.

    Venezuela has been printing money. Lots of money because government things/thought this would help solve the issue. And their Supreme Court just gave the Venezuelan government special powers to dip into private businesses. This could be America and sadly I think it will be our future.

    Venezuela is on the brink of a complete economic collapse
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  2. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    Yes--Venezuela is ground-zero for a major fan-hitting.

    And now that prepping is illegal, and to opportunity to prep has passed, there are many wishing they had madfe their move toward self-sufficiency when it was still possible.

    VZ is (I believe) fourth in the world in oil production, but they've handled their economy so badly they're importing oil from the US.

    Basically, those in power have tried/are trying every economic tactic that didn't work under Stalin and Mugabe, just because they have one thing in common that did work: those in power stayed in power.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  3. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I started my prepping years ago ,not so much in food as skills and tools in anticipation of the usual disasters that hit the earth.
    I started storing food stuffs after the 9/11 event , the hand writing was on the wall .
    Venezuela like every other country where the economy is in critical decay ,corruption in government does the same things,
    looking out for it's own interests, and not that of the majority of the people.
    Did not our own congress again recently vote them selves yet another raise?
    GMO are ruining farming and the economy as well which is also an extension of the support of the government.
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Man-oh-man! I do so agree with you both!. Collapse will not come with a bang and a mortal wound but with cut by cut and a slow bleed out...in fact I do not think it will be total collapse but a degrade of power and for the elites the means to retain that power not just over its citizenry but the world.

    Personally, I strongly believe it is will come due to economics and it will come due to a natural disaster of some sort causing the 'tipping point' probably followed up by hard blows from numerous countries to obtain what they have wanted for numerous years (think China - Taiwan, China Sea; Russia - Ukraine; Iran - Iraq and as much of Middle East they can swallow; Mideast - destruction of Israel) and these might not be military blows, probably won't be.

    And, I will go one step further (and hope people don't call me whacko), I believe the tipping point will be cause by the Cascadian Fault (Cascadia Subduction Zone) where everything West of I-5 is gone from and including Vancouver, BC down to and including Northern California. The cost and destruction will weaken us to the point where it would give the powers of the world to grasp this one time opportunity - and I think they will.

    In 2011, a 9.0 earthquake devastated Japan causing the Fukushima nuclear reactor meltdown, 18,000 lives lost and $220B dollars. Now, compare this with an even stronger quake over a much, much larger area and realizing we already have a debt of $18T (not exactly sure but think this is close) and that the quake is already 70 years overdue, "at least 41 Cascadia events in the last ten thousand years" recurring on an average of 243 years.

    This prediction is a hard science not speculation. So, why isn't it here because "recurrences are averages and averages are tricky; 10 is the average of 9 and 11, but is also of 18 and 2" so yeah you can quibble if you want with that number (243 yrs).

    The New Yorker and Discovery magazines have done amazing articles on this.

    BTW Seattle, Portland, Vancouver BC - gone - and so many smaller towns/cities that I can't list them: Olympia WA, Salem Ore...

    Anyway, I think it will be something like this, something unplanned and uncontrollable, that would stretch us economically to the point that our paper would devalue (as they printed more to keep up) and our Bonds couldn't be sold due to the devaluation and then Bond holders would panic and start selling. Game over!

    "Money is the muscles and sinews of war" some Greek or Roman guy said this ages ago...and it is still true. And, while we control the world through economics it is together with a fine balance of military threat which, of course, costs trillions.

    You can't support 20 aircraft carriers (of which 11 are super carriers) with a broken economy. For example, the last time I looked, the next country having the most aircraft carriers is France and it has a whopping...2. So, not only would the home front change but Internationally it would change also because obviously America does keep the world in check - not for altruistic reasons but we do... - Rick :):)
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  5. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry Krieg Hündchen

    Everything said here I am in agreement with.

    The globalist are continuing the grab of property and moving more and more into a centralized global government with the erasure of national borders. Isn't it odd one of the few member's of our SCOTUS who gave a darn about our sovereignty suddenly dies right before several important constitutional issues get ruled on in an election year? Adding to the insult, the Democrat front runner is calling himself a socialist? And Europe? They just started negative interest rates in some of their banks and are discussing the move to a cashless society.

    The only goal they have is utter and complete control of all property; and people are considered their property.

    We are indeed in a slow descent as a civilization. When the balloon pops, there will be nobody left to save our population....nor will there be any place safe to run.
  6. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    [​IMG] I had one of these moments today. There is a super sale on a great prepping item and I was buy XX amount for the second time this week. I had this Venezuela article in my head and driving home [​IMG]. I always wondered how the .g o v would know if I was a prepper/ hoarder. Well, I use my shopping saving card every time I go to get the deals. I cannot believe I never thought to get a savings card in a false name & address. Stores track what I buy and I do not think they would protect my buying habits if they were asked for shopping records. I know to beware using your credit card but the discount/ shopping cards to the local market are not protected.
    3M-TA3, Cruisin Sloth and AD1 like this.
  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I am not a great fan of loyalty cards/programs....but having said that....I do keep a few that don't give away much information about me and my spending habits. I don't think that ASIO cares how many free Lattes I am rewarded when redeeming my loyalty card. The cards don't share where I bought my lattes at...unless of course my coffee seller has nano-information infused in the rubber stamp ink that they use :eek:
    Motomom34 likes this.
  8. Legion489

    Legion489 Shining the Light of Truth

    AAAARRGH! I was going to post that! See what happens when demonrats are allowed to take over a gov't/country? What next? Supreme Court Judges getting whacked and it is "Oh, OK, no autopsy needed, it was... um... heart attack? Better use 'natural causes' as in 'anyone who opposes Billary and Obummer naturally will get whacked'".
    Motomom34 likes this.
  9. Legion489

    Legion489 Shining the Light of Truth

  10. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Rick. I agree. Scares me everytime i have to TDY to Seattle. My checked luggage is 50 lbs of survival gear alone.

    An please for us old guys PARAGRAPHS!!!!!!!!!. When I would admin at Angery American site, I would go into posts like your and make them readable ;)
    chelloveck, Bandit99 and HK_User like this.
  11. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey++

    Yeah, you are right...looks like a train wreck! :) Guess I got caught up in the moment... LOL! I am actually surprised you even read it. :) I will see if I can edit it now . Sorry! - Rick
    PS. Okay, I edited it....I really got carried away. WHEW! ;)
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
    chelloveck and AD1 like this.
  12. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

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  13. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    All I could think when I read this article was coming to a city new you soon. With our coal industry under attack from the current administration, plus an ailing power grid. Our infrastructure is headed down hill. But enough about the US, here is how Venezuela is dealing with their lack of energy.

    Venezuela declares every Friday a holiday

    The announcement comes after the President shut down the country for a week over the Easter period as an energy crisis gripped the country.
  14. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Another socialist paradise, coming to a country near you soon...
    GOG, T. Riley and kellory like this.
  15. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    The bleed continues. Just think, this could be happening in your country.

    Fridges go off as Venezuela power-rationing hits

    I put in bold the line about the bank cards not working. Imagine what would happen if the swipe/chip machines stopped working. Maybe Venezuela does not have SNAP cards like America but imagine all those cards not working. We know most people do not deal in cash so then what? And for the electric holidays- what about all those freezers filled with preps. Are you going to use your fuel for a generator to keep the meat cold but may need that fuel for heating later on.

    It does not sound right, but I like watching this spiral. It raises many questions in my preps and how I categorize things. The slow bleed is one that can drain your stock and your reserves long before the true bottom is reached. Certainly a watch, think and learn from Venezuela.
    mysterymet and GOG like this.
  16. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Learning from human tragedy does not mean you are enjoying it. In fact, it is our duty to prevent it and if not to mitigate the impact as much as possible.
  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    As long as the timing is known, a 4 hrs blackout is not a problem. Freezers will stay frozen as long as the door stays shut, and ice blocks in the fridge will span the gaps without a problem. It just requires a little pre-planning.
    As for the EBT cards.....we had riots when the system was down for what? 45minutes?
    Yard Dart, mysterymet and Gator 45/70 like this.
  18. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Moderator Moderator Site Supporter++

    Before someone says Socialism is the cause-

    The most socialistic nations in the world today:
    New Zealand

    ****Despite popular myths, there is very little connection between economic performance and welfare expenditure. Many of the countries on this list are proof of that, such as Denmark and Finland. Even though both countries are more socialistic than America, the workforce remains stronger. (**lost the link I got this from)

  19. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Have you been to those countries?

    If in doubt watch a few of the "I've moved to (fill in the blank)".

    You will notice very small everything, you will see cramped quarters, you will few if any ovens in the homes/apartments and very small fridges.

    This all combines to make a very unresistant population, aka thankful to the Gov for all those hand outs.

    Been to some, all over the world. More "Free Rides" the higher the taxes and the expectations of the Gov.

    Matter of fact, Finland has a 25% VAT.


    Taxation and Customs Union

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    General overview
    What is VAT? VAT on goods moving between Member States
    Overview of EU legislation VAT on services
    What is a taxable person? Services connected with immovable property
    How is it charged? How do the Member States apply VAT?
    VAT coverage and VAT rates Why do all the Member States use VAT?
    VAT on imports and exports
    What is VAT?
    The Value Added Tax, or VAT, in the European Union is a general, broadly based consumption tax assessed on the value added to goods and services. It applies more or less to all goods and services that are bought and sold for use or consumption in the Community. Thus, goods which are sold for export or services which are sold to customers abroad are normally not subject to VAT. Conversely imports are taxed to keep the system fair for EU producers so that they can compete on equal terms on the European market with suppliers situated outside the Union .

    Value added tax is

    • a general tax that applies, in principle, to all commercial activities involving the production and distribution of goods and the provision of services.
    • a consumption tax because it is borne ultimately by the final consumer. It is not a charge on businesses.
    • charged as a percentage of price, which means that the actual tax burden is visible at each stage in the production and distribution chain.
    • collected fractionally, via a system of partial payments whereby taxable persons (i.e., VAT-registered businesses) deduct from the VAT they have collected the amount of tax they have paid to other taxable persons on purchases for their business activities. This mechanism ensures that the tax is neutral regardless of how many transactions are involved.
    • paid to the revenue authorities by the seller of the goods, who is the "taxable person", but it is actually paid by the buyer to the seller as part of the price. It is thus an indirect tax.
    VAT: Overview of EU legislation currently in force and eLearning course
    The essential piece of EU VAT legislation since 1 January 2007 has been Directive 2006/112/EC. That 'VAT Directive' is effectively a recast of the Sixth VAT Directive of 1977 as amended over the years. The recast brings together various provisions in a single piece of legislation. It provides a clearer overview of EU VAT legislation currently in force.

    As it is usual practice, the Directive contains a correlation table providing the bridge between the provisions of the Sixth VAT Directive and those of the new Directive.

    This table features at the end of the Directive. An eLearning course has been developed by the European Commission to help tax officials and others get a good basic knowledge of the VAT Directive. The course is freely available for download from our web page.

    What is a taxable person?
    For VAT purposes, a taxable person is any individual, partnership, company or whatever which supplies taxable goods and services in the course of business.

    However, if the annual turnover of this person is less than a certain limit (the threshold), which differs according to the Member State, the person does not have to charge VAT on their sales.

    How is it charged?
    The VAT due on any sale is a percentage of the sale price but from this the taxable person is entitled to deduct all the tax already paid at the preceding stage. Therefore, double taxation is avoided and tax is paid only on the value added at each stage of production and distribution. In this way, as the final price of the product is equal to the sum of the values added at each preceding stage, the final VAT paid is made up of the sum of the VAT paid at each stage.

    Registered VAT traders are given a number and have to show the VAT charged to customers on invoices. In this way, the customer, if he is a registered trader, knows how much he can deduct in turn and the consumer knows how much tax he has paid on the final product. In this way the correct VAT is paid in stages and to a degree the system is self-policing. The system operates as follows:


    Stage 1

    A mine sells iron ore to a smelter. The sale is worth €1000 and, if the VAT rate is 20%, the mine charges its customers €1200. It should pay €200 to the treasury, but as it has bought €240 worth of tools in the same accounting period, including €40 VAT, it is only required to pay €160 (€200 less €40) to the treasury. The treasury also receives the €40 and now gets €160 making €200 - which is the correct amount of VAT due on the sale of the iron ore.

    • Supply: €1000
    • VAT on supply: €200
    • VAT on purchases: €40
    • Net VAT to be paid: €160
    Stage 2

    The smelter has paid €200 VAT to the mine and, say, another €20 VAT on other purchases, such as furniture, stationery, etc. So when the smelter sells €2000 worth of steel it charges €2400 including €400 VAT. The smelter deducts the €220 already paid on his inputs and pays €180 to the treasury. The treasury receives this €180 from the smelter plus €160 from the mine, plus €40 paid by the supplier of tools to the mine, plus €20 paid by the furniture/stationary supplier to the smelter.

    • Supply: €2.000
    • VAT on supply: €400
    • VAT on purchases: €220
    • Net VAT to be paid: €180
    €180 (paid by the smelter) + €160 (paid by the mine) + €40 (paid by the supplier to the mine) + €20 (paid by the supplier to the smelter) = €400 or the correct amount of VAT on a sale worth €2000.

    VAT coverage and VAT rates
    Given that EU law only requires that the standard VAT rate must be at least 15% and the reduced rate at least 5% (only for supplies of goods and services referred to in an exhaustive list), actual rates applied vary between Member States and between certain types of products. In addition, certain Member States have retained separate rules in specific areas.

    The most reliable source of information on current VAT rates for a specified product in a particular Member State is that country's VAT authority. Nevertheless, it is possible to get an overview of the different rates applied from the VAT rates in the European Union information document.

    VAT on imports and exports
    For the purpose of exports between the Community and non-member countries, no VAT is charged on the transaction and the VAT already paid on the inputs of the good for export is deducted - this is an exemption with the right to deduct the input VAT, sometimes called 'zero-rating'. There is thus no residual VAT contained in the export price.

    However, as far as imports are concerned, VAT must be paid at the moment the goods are imported so they are immediately placed on the same footing as equivalent goods produced in the Community. Taxable people registered for VAT will be allowed to deduct this VAT in their next VAT return.

    A study provides detailed information[​IMG](1 Mb) [​IMG] (in English only) on the import VAT payment rules in different Member States.

    VAT on goods moving between Member States
    No frontier controls exist between Member States and therefore VAT on goods traded between EU Member States is not collected at the internal frontier between tax jurisdictions.

    Goods supplied between taxable persons (or VAT registered traders) are exempted with a right to deduct the input VAT (zero-rated) on despatch if they are sent to another Member States to a person who can give his VAT number in another Member State. This is known as an "intra-Community supply". The VAT number can be checked using the VAT Information Exchange System (VIES).

    The VAT due on the transaction is payable on acquisition of the goods by the taxable customer in the Member State where the goods arrive. This is known as "intra-Community acquisition". The customer accounts for any VAT due in his normal VAT return at the rate in force in the country of destination.

    VAT on services
    VAT on services is paid at the place where the service has been supplied. This will most often, but not always, be where the service supplier is established. The trader will in those cases account for VAT on his services in the Member State where he is established, applying the VAT rate of that country.

    Depending on the nature of the service, VAT may need to be paid in another Member State than that where the supplier is established. This is for example the case with services connected to immovable property; transport of passengers or goods; cultural, artistic, sporting, scientific, educational, and entertainment services.

    Services connected with immovable property
    For services connected with immovable property, Article 47 of the VAT Directive establishes that the place of supply shall be the place where the immovable property is located.

    To help clarify which services are covered by this special rule, Council Implementing Regulation (EU) No 1042/2013 of 7 October 2013, included in the VAT implementing Regulation Articles 13b, 31a and 31b. These Articles define what has to be regarded as immovable property and which services have a sufficiently direct connection with immovable property to be covered by that special rule, and have not.

    The Commission services have already begun the work on Explanatory notes (see Commission's note[​IMG] (in English only)) that would focus on the practical implications of these rules to reach a common understanding on their application.

    How do the Member States apply VAT?
    The detailed application of VAT varies according to the administrative customs and practices of each Member State within the framework set out by Community legislation.

    Why do all Member States use VAT?
    At the time when the European Community was created, the original six Member States were using different forms of indirect taxation, most of which were cascade taxes. These were multi-stage taxes which were each levied on the actual value of output at each stage of the productive process, making it impossible to determine the real amount of tax actually included in the final price of a particular product. As a consequence, there was always a risk that Member States would deliberately or accidentally subsidise their exports by overestimating the taxes refundable on exportation.

    It was evident that if there was ever going to be an efficient, single market in Europe, a neutral and transparent turnover tax system was required which ensured tax neutrality and allowed the exact amount of tax to be rebated at the point of export. As explained in VAT on imports and exports, VAT allows for the certainty that exports there are completely and transparently tax-free.

    VAT history in the EU
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    Yard Dart likes this.
  20. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Socialism is at best a scam that puts a middleman between me and what I purchase. A middleman that not only decides what and how much I purchase as well as one I have to pay to make my decisions for me. No thanks. Any system that removes the incentive to produce means less will be available to be shared out, hence smaller everything and shortages.

    As to the "successful" socialist states lets see what happens as US military power recedes and they have to start putting more of their GDP into their own defenses. Let's also see what happens as US Foreign Aid starts to dry up.
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