You are in a Mass Casualty Event- now what.....

Discussion in 'Survival Medicine' started by Motomom34, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Mass casualty event can happen anywhere are anytime. From a shooting at a concert, a 70 car pile up or a derailed train. Terrorism and mass casualty events have been happening overseas with trucks plowing down citizens and we just had one a week ago in Las Vegas.

    Mass casualty is any incident in which emergency medical services resources, such as personnel and equipment, are overwhelmed by the number and severity of casualties.

    The first responders at mass casualty events are you. You are the ones that will be on-scene and have to start the medical care. With the Vegas shooting looking at the pictures I saw a few people without shirts. Your shirt can be used to stop the bleeding. If you do use a shirt or material on someone who is bleeding and the blood is seeping through, leave it and add another piece of clothing. Do not remove because there maybe clotting already happening and you do not want to disturb any clot. Stopping the bleeding is vital.

    Look at what you are wearing at the moment, do you have a belt to use for a tourniquet? Shoe laces? A driver license to put over a sucking chest wound? This is a really huge topic but think what would you do? Reports came out of Vegas that people were putting their fingers in bullet holes. True or false, I do not know but during an event when time is critical, you do what you have to do to save a life.

    I think this is an important topic to discuss because in this world today, even the smallest knowledge can save a life.

    You are in a Mass Casualty Event- now what.....
  2. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Here’s a simple four-point plan to have in place anytime you’re in a crowd.

    The 4 T’s of Mass Casualty Treatment
    Whether it’s from gunshots, a truck driving through a crowd, a tornado, or an earthquake, multiple-trauma situations initially result in chaos and panic. But within that, there are opportunities for uninjured survivors to save lives of the injured.

    The four T’s for helping to save lives in a multi-trauma situation by Survival Doctor:
    1. Take cover.You can’t help others if you’re killed. So make reasonably sure the imminent danger to you has passed before venturing out.
    2. Take action. Don’t wait for someone else. Just do it. Many people freeze (through no fault of their own; it’s the way the brain works sometimes). Others don’t have the knowledge needed to help. Still others are overwhelmed and don’t know where to start or can’t calm down enough to help. Emergency responders are likely on their way, but they may be delayed or blocked.
    3. Triage. Find a person you think you can best help. The START system can help you decide (see below), or just choose the closest person.
    4. Treat. For instance, if someone is alive but bleeding badly, apply pressure or a tourniquet. After that, move to the next victim. If no one is alive, start chest compressions on someone.
    If there are a lot of people with severe injuries and you can’t help them all, you may have make some hard decisions about who can use your help the most. Many first responder teams go by the START system. It stands for Simple Triage and Rapid Treatment. It’s not perfect, but it can give you guidance to avoid the paralyzing enormity of it all.

    How You Could Save Lives in a Mass Casualty Situation
  3. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    Since every situation is different and there is no one-size-fits-all plan of action, I'll only say that I'll do the best I can with what I have.
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Going back 50 years to my days as a Professional Ski Patroller, with an Advanced FirstAid Card... You do what you are trained. to do, in the order you were trained, and you do the best you can, with what you have, or what you can get, quickly....
    Ura-Ki and Motomom34 like this.
  5. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Training is not necessary and in some ways makes your efforts more of a liability to you. In some States you are not protected by Good Samaritan laws. The differences in the law from State to State are as convoluted as Concealed Carry.

    Good Samaritan Laws by state

    In my State, this statement bothers me as Gross Negligence can be defined as nearly anything...

    "(2) No person may maintain an action for damages for injury, death or loss that results from acts or omissions of a person while rendering emergency medical assistance unless it is alleged and proved by the complaining party that the person was grossly negligent in rendering the emergency medical assistance."
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Ura-Ki and Tully Mars like this.
  6. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    To me the most frightening thing about mass causality events is that almost all of them occur in an area where you can neither escape or take cover safely. Las Vegas shooting from what I read had walls around the site and ticket booths to control entrance. Most major events with mass deaths have occurred in areas with restricted exits, Coconut Grove in the 1940's, Twin Towers in New York, train and bus wrecks, mass car wrecks, Station nite club with 100 deaths due to fire , or the nite club shooting in Florida. Biggest lesson from the Las Vegas event is the continued creep in the perceived dangers. When I went to join the USAF in 1956, the recruiter gave me a form, I went down to the airport in Rochester Minn, mom and dad parked by the fence and an airplane landed. When it stopped, they let down a stairs and the people got off, we walked over and the pilot looked at the form, took it, the copilot took my bag, I got on the airplane, a few minutes later the copilot come back and checked on us, gave a safety talk, and we took off. Now in order to fly we have to go through all kinds of security with limits on liquids, diapers, shoes, luggage, electronics. etc and a picture ID. In Las Vegas they made the assumption that if the windows didn't open, no security risk was present as if a person out to shoot people at random would worry about injuring people with falling glass. We now face a whole new group of dangers, IED's, car bombs, snipers, trucks running into crowds, contaminated food or water, pressure cooker bombs, poison gas in subways, hijacked airplanes, run away freight trains in Canada, diapers, liquids, shoes, electronics, in aircraft, and the list goes on. While you may be able to give some aid, in most cases in the modern world you are going to be a casualty and need the aid rather than give it, and in much of the world, the first responders are targeted in followup attacks. As the computer said in Wargames, the only sane solution is to not play or in my case, to not go to such events.
    They showed the response to the attack in Las Vegas on the Red Sox game in Boston, metal detectors, more barriers, tighter crowd control, limited entrances and if someone does figure a way to bypass the security system, even less ability to escape and a greater danger of mass casualties caused by a panicked crowd trying to exit thru a very limited exit area.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Motomom34 likes this.
  7. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Some folks have not had any training at all and others have taken many courses. Sharing of tips and sharing of knowledge is a good thing.

    When approaching an injured person try to approach from the feet so that they can see you. Talk to them. Fight or flight, they could be in a fight mode so let them see you. You do not want to get hit while trying to help.

    I detest going thru airport security. It is so unnerving for me. All those people lined-up like cattle. Airport security is a prime target for bad guys IMO and I am always looking and checking everyone out but as you said, some place have no good cover.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2017
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  8. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    I know I'm good to go with almost any event. Biggest thing to me i most events are like an active shooter. Cover calm your mind go to work. You have to stop the panic and brain racing out of control and do what you do what ever that may be. Of course my 2 cents and its worth just about that
    Motomom34 and Yard Dart like this.
  9. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I thought I was going to see the Coke Cola show in Hot-lanta last month
    Only after I was in line did I see the metal detectors and police manning the entrance.
    I eased back out of there since i had Iron in my pants, Come to find out its a 2 hour Coke commercial!
    Ura-Ki and Yard Dart like this.
  10. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Having adequate medical supplies available is important.....the knowledge to apply life saving procedures is paramount. If you don't have the basic first aid training under your belt.....let alone, advanced skills, what are you waiting for!!

    Having been through several mass casualty events in the past, I can honestly say that you are never truly prepared for how bad it can be.....but you lean on your training to carry you through to help the best you can.
  11. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I have been attacked by casualties before, eapecially those who were unconcious when i got them and they woke up. Fear and confusion can cause all sorts of additional stress and increase trauma! I had a bad one that tried to strangle me with his one remaining hand. Others will fight you knowing that what ever you are about to do may likely cause additional pain! It ia a very real response and must be delt with proactively.
    Tully Mars, Dunerunner and Yard Dart like this.
  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Been there done that. Get your self out, don't expect to lay there and any one risk their neck to save you.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  13. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I had a guy walk up to me one time on fire...... after a plane crash, hard to walk away from that!! You just have to get to work and do what you can.
    Tully Mars, Dunerunner and Ura-Ki like this.
  14. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Been there done that member.
    Production platforms on fire.
    Helicopters in the Gulf upside down.
    Wreaks, 2 dead, Rest getting neck braces, Told the wife to load up, We have no time to spend in court!
    Tully Mars, Yard Dart and Ura-Ki like this.
  15. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    "You are in a Mass Casualty Event- now what...."

    I pat my pockets - I have no PPE. No gloves, no mask, no eye protection, nothing.

    I grab my/any family members and haul ass out of the AO...

    From the old Navy rhyme:
    When in Danger
    or in Doubt -
    Hoist all Sail,
    Haul ass out.​
    Motomom34 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Those that do not know what to do had best stay out of the way of those that do.
  17. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    I worked military ERs for 8 years, was a licensed EMT (in Alaska of all places) - even taught CPR as a AHA instructor-trainer. All past tense.

    But - there are today so many people with lethal diseases walking the street with no outward sign that I got out of the business. It's not that I don't care for folks - it's that I care more for my wife and kids. (shrug) We all get to make choices.

    For me - no PPE = no helpee.
    Benjamin A. Wood and Motomom34 like this.
  18. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    You make a very important point. Helping someone could have huge consequences and those need to be recognized.
  19. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    This first came to me way back in the early 1970s. My USAF unit would travel from Nellis (Las Vegas) to Lincoln County where we had sited a number of ground RADAR system to simulate North Vietnamese SAM systems as part of aircrew training. That meant we spent a lot of time driving Hwy (route) 93 from Las Vegas going North.

    Traffic accidents were a common thing, since we had radios on the trucks that could reach out for help, you would often see a blue 6-pack parked by an accident scene. One of our crew stopped to help a fellow that ran off the road at speed, stopped the bleeding and likely saved his life. They later found out he was positive for 'at least' 2 strains of Hepatitis.

    The authorities refused to be specific - just insisting the guys 'get tested'....

    Once HIV/AIDS/Hepatitis (all varieties)/herpes/the list of communicable disease is seemingly endless today hit the big time - I don't play. Again, I really want to see my granddaughter graduate and so on....

    I see all the time on 'survival sites' folks showing their whiz-bang FAKs and how they will be there to save the day. Because they have no clue as to the downside.

    Knowing first aid should be something folks are trained in IF they are also trained in blood-borne pathogens. Most are not or the BBP part is played down/skipped over. FYI - I do carry Das Auto.

    This aspect of rendering First Aid is something you/everyone should give a lot of thought to BEFORE an event happens.
    arleigh, Gator 45/70 and Yard Dart like this.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Since you wrote that above, I have taken an on-line class on blood-borne pathogens via the our workers comp company and have 2 sets of PPE that now live in my car. I have PPE in my EDC bag but adding more to my car will help me be prepared. I know myself enough to know that I couldn't walk away and not help those that were hurt.
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