Civil War Pics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by -06, Mar 19, 2012.

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  1. -06

    -06 Monkey++

  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Excellent comment post by Gary Howell on the pictures and the situation we face today.
    Let's get out history correct---was the real cause of the Civil War slavery? I think not. The facts tell us that only 1 in 10 owned slaves in the South. I can tell you for a fact that my great grandfather nor his 3 brothers went to war because of slavery as they owned none. I had the great fortune of growing up in a literate family including my great grandfather who wrote of why he fought. It was because of an issue we face today---state and individual rights versus an ever encroaching central governement. One of the great discussions I was a part of included one hot August day under a large post oak tree listening to my dad and his 3 brothers discuss the old Confederate Veteran who moved to Texas after losing everything in Mississippi in the Civil War. Though it had no special meaning at the time, my Uncle Roy (who was born in in 1895 and knew the old Reb well) talked of the times he and the old man discussed the Civil War and how the old Reb argued vehemently that the war was not about slavery but about individual rights---at least that is how he saw it. I do think there were some Southern fire brands who were legislators and slavery was at the heart of their fire eating. However, that does not explain how the masses of average citizens of the South were persuaded to fight a war over slavery alone. No, I think the masses of the Confederates (who suffered up to 40% DEATHS) fought, gamely, for what faces us today---an out of control Federal government intent upon controlling our lives and bankrupting us in the process.
  3. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey++ Site Supporter

    I've read a lot about the people who fought that war.Both sides.It's a bit eerie To have read this comment after those pictures.Did we win or did we lose?Are we repeating the things that divided us then? Which faction wins next time?
    Alpha Dog, tulianr and tacmotusn like this.
  4. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    Some years ago I started digging into my family history.Of the slaveholding members,I found not one instance of fighting in the War Between the States.On my mother's side,I found that my great-great grandfather's 4 brothers and a cousin joined the Confederate side.Of all the war veterans I found,not one instance of owning slaves.Doesn't prove anything,but was interesting to me.
  5. TheEconomist

    TheEconomist Creighton Bluejay Site Supporter+

    As a 27 year old I feel that it was not too long ago that I was taught the war was abotu slavery. Hearing stories like these and seeing these pictures helps me to understand things a little better. Thank you for the post!
  6. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    I understood that the war was NOT about slavery when they taught it to me in HS, 18yrs ago..

    Just didn't add up, to me.
    If it was about slavery, why wait 2yrs into the war to declare emancipation?

    I got ancestors who fought on both sides, predominantly confederate though.. Only 1 outta my 4 direct ancestors who fought, might have owned slaves..

    My ancestors who I know owned slaves, did not fight, or atleast, were not officially listed on the rolls. Although three major battles for the lower atchafalaya basin occurred on thier property (sugar cane plantation). They prolly played both sides, leaning towards the confederacy.. For survival purposes.

    My great aunt, blew up half the house, when she used an un-exploded ordinance in the fireplace as a wood grate, back in 1940.. She lived the rest of her life fairly maimed until 1989, so, the civil war and it's knock on affects touched me directly..

    Aside from segregation and desegregation and southern poverty and etc, etc, etc..
  7. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    Not to mention that the emancipation proclamation only applied to the rebel states. Kinda hard to be all holier than thou while allowing continuation of slave ownership in the northern and neutral states.
  8. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    Yes, "not to mention".. I don't ever recall it being mentioned..

    Although much time was spent on heralding the "underground railroad" and such..

    but alas, we are where we are.. NOW.. There is definitely lines drawn in these un-united states, that you can clearly see, by electoral maps, and traveling around talking to people in the different states.

    Many people around the country had no idea what it was like, dealing with "entitlement mentality", until they had to accommodate katrina refugee's..
    I think it was a real eye opener for many across the country.
    STANGF150 and Redneck Rebel like this.
  9. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    RAndy Golden of the Atlanta website

    This was the time of King Cotton. During the war, the British textile industry turned to so-called Egyptian cotton

    Some say simplistically that the Civil War was fought over slavery. Unfortunately, there is no "simple" reason. The causes of the war were a complex series of events, including slavery, that began long before the first shot was fired. Competing nationalisms, political turmoil, the definition of freedom, the preservation of the Union, the fate of slavery and the structure of our society and economy could all be listed as significant contributing factors in America's bloodiest conflict.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]Complaints of Georgians[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    Many of the problems Georgians saw more than one hundred fifty years ago are being reiterated today. The "oppressive" federal government. High taxes(tariffs before the war). A growing government unwilling to listen to law abiding citizens. Sound familiar? They were complaints levied from 1816 on in Georgia.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]Constitutional Questions[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    People argued about the meaning of the Constitution since its infancy. From a legal standpoint, the document defines the relationship between the people of the United States and the federal government, detailing the powers and responsibilities of each. In 1828 Vice-president John C. Calhoun said if a state felt a federal law extended beyond the Constitutional rights of the government that state had the right to ignore(or "nullify") the law. This concept dated back the Articles of Confederation. President Andrew Jackson felt the federal government was the highest authority(Article VI, Section 2) and the states had to abide by its law.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]Tariffs and the Nullification Crisis[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    As industry in the North expanded it looked towards southern markets, rich with cash from the lucrative agricultural business, to buy the North's manufactured goods. However, it was often cheaper for the South to purchase the goods abroad. In order to "protect" the northern industries Jackson slapped a tariff on many of the imported goods that could be manufactured in the North. When South Carolina passed the Ordinance of Nullification in November 1832, refusing to collect the tariff and threatening to withdraw from the Union, Jackson ordered federal troops to Charleston. A secession crisis was averted when Congress revised the Tariff of Abominations in February 1833.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]The rhetoric changes[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    However, the political climate changed during this "Nullification Crisis." Designations of States Rightist, Pro-Union, loose or strict constructionalist became more important than Whig or Democrat. In North Georgia when John Thomas, a local politician, was asked what to name a new county he said, "Name it Union, for none but Union-like men live here." Most of the northern tier of Georgia counties remained pro-Union until the outbreak of war almost 30 years later. From this point on factional politics would play an increasing part in the division of a country.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]Economic changes affect society[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    The Panic of 1837 and the ensuing depression began to gnaw like a hungry animal on the flesh of the American system. The disparity between northern and southern economies was exacerbated. Before and after the depression the economy of the South prospered. Southern cotton sold abroad totaled 57% of all American exports before the war. The Panic of 1857 devastated the North and left the South virtually untouched. The clash of a wealthy, agricultural South and a poorer, industrial North was intensified by abolitionists who were not above using class struggle to further their cause.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]The breakdown of the political system[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    The ugliness of the political process quickly began to show as parties turned upon themselves and politics on a national level were more like local Georgia politics. Feuds and fights in political arenas were common. From 1837 until 1861 eight men became president, but no man served more than a single term in office. One sitting president was not renominated by his own party and another withdrew his name after being nominated. New political parties were created with names like Constitutional Union, American, Free-Soilers and Republican. In Georgia, Democrats were strong, but factional fighting broke the party along pro-Union and States Rights lines.
    With the disintegration of the Whig party in the early 1850's the political turmoil increased. Howell Cobb, former Speaker of the House, molded pro-Union Democrats, mostly from North Georgia, with former Whigs to grab the governorship in 1851. His attempts to help slaves fell on the deaf ears of our state legislature. Although Georgia began to prosper during his first year the coalition fell apart as the Democrats reunited. The increasing power of the West and self-serving politicians like Stephen A. Douglas churned the political environment as the North and South battled for philosophic control.
    By the time Buchanan was elected(1856) the country was divided on many issues, including slavery. Former Governor Cobb spoke in the North as a moderate Southerner for Buchanan and served on his cabinet. Over the next 4 years Cobb changed from pro-Union to secessionist. A similar process occurred across much of Georgia. In 1860 the state was equally divided between secessionist and pro-Union.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]A concise history of slavery[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    At Jamestown, Va. in 1611 a group of Scottish women and children were sold as slaves. 7 years later in Jamestown the first Africans were sold in slavery. From 1611 until 1865 people from virtually every society on earth were sold into slavery in North America. Citizens in each of the thirteen colonies enslaved people, but slavery was viewed as a southern institution after the early 1800's. Along the coastal areas of the South a majority of the slaves were black. In some inland areas whites and Native Americans outnumbered black slaves. Slavery is still legal in the United States as a criminal punishment, but is not practiced.
    In 1789 Georgians, as did much of the rest of the country, saw slavery as a dying institution. Eli Whitney's stolen modification of the cotton gin(1793) created a greater demand for slaves, so rather than "wither on the vine" the institution prospered. The Northwest Ordinance, adopted in 1787 banned the practice in the Northwest Territories. In 1798 Georgia forbid further importation of slaves and the Constitution allowed Congress to outlaw importation of slaves in 1808, which they did. Over the next 40 years lesser skirmishes were fought over slavery including the Compromise of 1820. In North Georgia slavery was not widespread and a majority of the slaves were of Native American, Scottish or Irish descent.
    Slaves often spoke of "our cotton" or "our cattle". The only item they would concede was the master's carriage. Trusted slaves were permitted to go to town unescorted. Others suffered horribly. Conditions in northern factories were as bad or worse than those for a majority of the slaves, but it would be 40 years after the war when they were properly addressed.
    Beginning in the late 1840's the conflict over slavery began to boil over. The Compromise of 1850 contributed heavily to the split in Georgia's Democratic Party. On a national scale David Wilmot, Lloyd Garrison, and Harriet Beecher Stowe enflamed the abolitionists. James G. Birney and Theodore Weld were more effective against slavery. The Dred Scot decision, Kansas-Nebraska Act, and harsher Fugitive Slave Laws gave the South some redress.
    The new Republican Party became a home to the alienated abolitionists. Although they totaled less than 3% of the population at large, they formulated the Republican platform to include the abolition of slavery as a plank. The party then nominated Abraham Lincoln for president. Few gave him any chance of success, but 3 other candidates split the popular vote and Lincoln won. Convinced that Lincoln would ruin the South economically, possibly by freeing the slaves, the heartland of the South withdrew from the Union. Shortly thereafter the upper south joined them. The attack on Fort Sumter launched America's bloodiest conflict.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]So what caused the war? [/FONT]
    [​IMG]The United States had been moving towards a fractured, divisive society for a number of years. Cultural and economic differences served to widen the rift. Battles among North, South, and West grew more heated, especially after 1850. Politicians and the judiciary sent conflicting signals trying to appease each of the groups involved, yet all remained dissatisfied. Georgians saw a federal government controlled by Northern industrialists who were unresponsive to the problems of their state. Tariffs paid by Georgians bought improvements in northern and western states. Now the federal government, they thought, was going to take away personal property without compensation, a clear violation of their Fourth Amendment rights.
    The South was wrong to assume Lincoln intended to free the slaves. He had never advocated action to abolish slavery nor did he speak out against the Illinois rules prohibiting blacks from testifying against whites. The true abolition candidate, Gerrit Smith of New York drew few votes. In his inaugural address Lincoln made it clear he would not interfere with slavery where it existed. Even though he made this speech after the South seceded he left the door open for their return.
    [FONT=georgia,verdana]During the war[/FONT][FONT=georgia,verdana] [/FONT]
    Southerners abolished the African slave trade in the Confederate Constitution. In the North "Preserve the Union" was the battlecry and Lincoln quoted "...a house divided shall not stand..." from the Bible. In fact the Emancipation Proclamation(1862), a foreign affair ploy, cost Republicans control of the legislature that November. A year later Lincoln restated why the war was fought when he said, dedicating a cemetery at Gettysburg "..for those who here gave their lives that this nation might live." During the Draft Riots in New York City 88 blacks were lynched.

    For the role cotton played in the war
    Cotton and the Civil War | Mississippi History Now
    Cotton then was like we view oil to day - a major driver in industry.

    Tarriffs were a major player before and just before theCivil war - one might say the seeds were sown in 1832...
    The vast majority of American industry was located in the northern states, whereas the economies of the agricultural southern states were based on the export of raw materials and the importation of manufactured goods. The South held few manufacturing concerns, and southerners had to pay higher prices for goods in order to subsidize northern profits.
    The collected tariffs were used to fund public projects in the North such as improvements to roads, harbors and rivers. From 1789 to 1845, the North received five times the amount of money that was spent on southern projects. More than twice as many lighthouses were built in the North as in the South, and northern states received twice the southern appropriations for coastal defense.
    The sectional friction caused by the tariffs bills eventually led the country to the nullification controversy of 1832, during which South Carolina declared the tariff laws null and void. John C. Calhoun, the father of nullification, developed the theory of secession and detailed the steps by which a state could sever its relationship with the Union and remove itself from the unfair power of the central government. Federal authority prevailed in the nullification crisis of 1832, but the theories developed by Calhoun would be invoked again when the country split apart in 1861.

    The web is full of such resources, Slavery was a political factor in the war,economics, or rather - economic tension was the underlayment of the conflict.

    Even all this time later, we still here and feel the echos of that conflict.
    tulianr, STANGF150 and Suerto like this.
  10. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    On the original topic, the LoC has a ton of really interesting photographs from the period.

    Selected Civil War Photographs Home Page

    A favorite of mine of General Robert E. Lee and son Major General George Washington Custis Lee.
    Alpha Dog likes this.

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