Is it just me... ("primitive" vs modern)

You use whatever resources you have available in a survival situation. The modern gear saves time and makes staying comfortable and fed easier. The longer the timeline of the event, the more primitive skills can become important to replace used up or lost modern gear.

If you run out of beans, bullets, and bandaids, or are forced to abandon your gear, or lose it, then the primitive skills will enable you to increase your odds of survival.

Primitive survival skills need practice to attain proficiency at them before the need arises, and they can be difficult to learn due to much misinformation, like Mr. Bishop in the prior post pointed out about the correct way to throw a bolo, where the books, which all seem to copy each other, teach a way that doesn't really work well in the field. To carry a survival book in your BOB to use when the chips are down is about as effective as carrying a karate manual in your pocket in case you are mugged.

I have studied and practiced primitive survival techniques for around 35 years and assure you there is no graduation day, before that I was an equipment camper for 20 some years. The two actually meld well with each other, as I carry my modern equipment and have my primitive skills between my ears.

It's autumn and the acorns are falling, go get some and try them out as food, then sharpen up your bow drill fire building skills. If the bow drill is mastered, then try the hand drill. When you go wilderness wandering leave one piece of modern gear at home, and learn how to replace it from what you can find outdoors in your locale. Eventually you will know how to get along without any modern equipment should the need arise.

Train, train, train, your life depends on it.

 

I love this debate! Some people hunt with muzzle loaders and call it primitive. It's a gun! Use a cartridge! Lol. But, like many of you have said, what's primitive? An adl adl is modern tech to the spear...
On the the original subject, I have several lighters in my Bob and a modern fire starter kit, and string for bow drill, or. Redundancy is key, P.A.C.E.
Primary
Alternate
Contingent
Emergency

 

Here's the thing,
Competition will be at the greatest volume in the beginning and any one with modern means are going to be using them.
If some one is coming after you with an AK, and you've chosen to defend your self with a musket ,the chances of survival are "not " in your favor at all. or may be your an anti gun nut, and hurl insults. same results.
Point is , in order to accommodate the volume ,a volume tool is required .
Some one comes with a gatling gun you return with a mini gun =gatling on steroids .
A time passes and people (Raiders) are thinned out and gotten smarter and more stealthy , those using weapons that reach further with out endangering them selves to much, will be what's left.
Bows and arrows won't matter much, neither will black powder .
Only after modern arms are completely exhausted will the meager lesser tools become valued.
The deception,
A tactic I think would be effective, is using a lesser means initially when returning fire, to lull the enemy into thinking that's the best you've got, and tempt them into range you are more comfortable with using a weapon far greater than the first.
I'm not a professional soldier , however I understand the power of illusion, and using old clothing and straw or any other packing media one can scavenge ,dummies can be made to appear as troops .
The better they are made, realistically placed , the more ammo is wasted of the enemy. and too possibly exposing their position.

 

Deception can be a very useful force multiplier. Usually it doesn't cost much more than some imaginative thinking, and scrap material.

 

Another tactic I' am developing is the use of a false front, buildings far enough from the main compound that raiders are likely to be hitting first. and place microphones all around the area to eves drop on any conversation going on there,and or use it for remote teams to check in .

 

Neat idea.

 

Arleigh,
You got that from blazing saddles! Hehe

 

Actually I didn't think of that but ya the same principle applies to some degree .
Although I didn't have rigging it for explosives though .
It's likely that raiders will do damage them selves , I merely need surveillance information as to their motives and plans ,if that's possible . Also the microphones would be placed out side in the ground because it is likely that the house will be burned .
This is why I believe that it is important to maintain modern technology ,something others will not expect .

 

I've pulled in more turtles on set lines than fish. It's possible that alligators beat me to the fish. If what I drag in is what I have to eat, it helps if I at least have a vague memory of Grandma's cooter pie recipe.

Set at night, using long lines, I'd limit my exposure to observation if I had to recover the catch during the day. I've had to move stealthily around ponds a number of times when I was careless and didn't notice lawn mowing crews that were inside the ponds fence line with me. This IS realistic training, since no collapse is likely to be total and immediate, and for a time, people will continue to do what they have always done....like mowing grass. Several hundred yards of 30 lb test fishing line and good quantity of #1 hooks can be had now for $10. A one ounce wheel weight and a sling shot will put a line over a limb 90' up. This lets you run a line around, and ultimately across the pond that will allow you to pull your heavy, baited set line into place without ever getting in the water. (remember those alligators?)

Now I'm getting hungry!

 

I'm late to the party on this excellent thread. @AxesAreBetter, I understand the frustration with the modern vs. "primitive" camps.

Sometimes it helps if the situation is distilled to one common point. Something everyone can relate to: "RRRRRummmmble, RummmBBBBBBLLLLe!!! Ohhhhhh, Nooooooo! I - HAVE - TO - Poooooooop!!!!!!

Do you do it the modern way and stop at the nearest fast food joint and blow up their almost clean rest room, or do you find yourself in the middle of the desert with nothing but sand in sight? Have you practiced THIS? Pretty basic stuff. If you haven't trained for this reality, what else are you missing? And how much of your "stuff" would you trade for a corn cob?

 

With poop ,If you in a fixed camp then having a dedicated towel one washes after word works just fine. heavy plastic water tight bag and dish soap . Just don't do it next to your water source .
On the hunt I don't eat much ,got lots of reserve any way .
Like fasting , if you don't eat much you don't poop much ether , but you still need to drink water and pee a lot .

 

JMHO hear. If I had the choice between living like the Flintstones or something more modern I'd go modern! But learning to live like Jeremiah Johnson is quiet handy when things go south. Forgot where I got this from but this sums it up nicely,carry more in your head than on your back!

 

I find that the more I learn about primitive the less I need of modern. Modern is expensive but the old fashion way was using simple things, brain power and determination. I am not say people aren't determined now but I think most would feel more confident with an AR-15 then with whatever is in grandpa's shed.

 

I practice using my resources as frugally as possible .
Lighting fire I've learned how to use a bow drill , so that if it is a casual event the bow drill is "FUN" to both practice and demonstrate to the young/unlearned . on the opposite side of the spectrum of need , possibly having come out of a ice covered lake needing a fire ASAP the Bic lighter or road flare might be the better choice .
If you have only made preparations for the most casual of times, and hard times come upon you, then what ?
It is my opinion that it will be the most modern means men will use to survive till those sources run out .
As the population diminishes, those with the more modern means will survive better than those relying on the more meager methods of survival . If I am still using cameras to do surveillance over my property ,while neighbors are still relying on posting a person to be a target out front , I am more likely to out live them.
If i am communicating with my group using radio while others don't have that advantage ,I am more likely to have the advantage in combat . For a fact I worked for a man that provided communications for his key employees ,and though he was a poor business man,(more of a play boy ), he was successful, having the expertise of those he communicated .
If you don't know how radio works and only hope to learn when you have to ,that will be too late. there will be too many other things you need to attend to When the SHTF .
So far as guns go , the AO you live in will determine the best tool.
In the country ,the long range to is best. 300 -500 yards
In the city what is it the military uses, AR - AK , 0 - 300 yards
Bow and arrow are out of the question close combat, or defensive fire the MOA is to great . On top of that an arrow is a dead give away as to where the shot came from.
On the other hand bow and arrow or arrow sling shot are best for hunting during this event , not having a report that might alert other hunters .
Cooking might be a problem if your using fire , but using a fresnel lens or parabolic mirror or box for cooking might be best , not advertising you location.

 

In muzzleloading circles you can hear "discussions" over which is "better" primitive or modern as well...
Some of the talking points , reasons and experiences , I think can also crossover to the "survival / bushcraft world "

For instance when I camp , for firestarting , I'll have a lighter , matches and a well stocked tinderbox with flint and steel.
Any of the above will get my campfire going...which is better...?
Well does it even matter...?
Its good to have options...
If I use my flint and steel , I am not only starting a fire , but practicing a skill that is almost forgotten and comes in handy at Rendezvous , that matters to me ...but maybe not to someone else....which is just as okay , for them
Use of a lighter and or matches , may get the job done a bit tidier or with less fuss...any of the above methods will result in a campfire.
But again its good to have options....there are no laws that say you must do one or the other.
Andy

 

Yeah, the "Primitive vs Modern" discussion is always fun. Or wait no it isn't. It always comes down to personal preferences. While we have the supply chain behind us, modern methods trump primitive hands down. Of course, that's my personal opinion...

Both have their place. I too keep multiple methods around. In fact, my primitive strikers were made by our very own Bear! I got a small one and large one from him several years back in kits with some chert/flint chunks and jute twine. Most excellent pieces of kit. But nothing beats a MAPP gas plumbers torch for starting a campfire. Aside from incendiary grenades...and I'm fresh out. Please don't use the IG's indoors. That's my Safety Sally advice for the year.