Yeah that is one of the main reasons I prefer ICE to electric. As a commuter car they are perfect. As a long distance ride, not to good for me. A lot of my destinations have very few charging stations in 50 mile radius.
Those are deal-breakers for normal people, you are describing a glorified golf cart, which is fine for a small island, perfect for lockdowns and "smart cities". Flat to fully-charged in only 8 hours with a 240v charger, double that for 120v. Range in good conditions has supposedly improved, 75-150 miles for older models, 150-226 for newer. Wow! Replacement battery costs more than the vehicle, not including service. Nissan Leaf 2018 MSRP was around $30K (expensive for a golf cart). Did it have 100K miles on it at the time? Value today is $5-9K yes. Honda Civic 2018 MSRP was $19K. Value of a 2018 model with 100K miles is $10-15K. Says a lot. Lifespan of a Nissan Leaf is 8-10 years or 100-150K miles, terrible EV insurance is typically 20% more than regular vehicle insurance, even EV owners complain about it EV car insurance: is it more expensive? Google Search 24,000 Leafs were recalled for a tendency (detected early) to catch fire, superhot battery fires are no joke, but Leafs seems like one of the safer (lesser used?) EVs, Teslas are 10x more common. In some places, ironically the places where EVs are more popular, electricity costs more than fuel. In your area, nobody seems to be using EVs, why is that? In some places there are thunderstorms every week or more often in summer. That's great if you do not have any natural disasters or power outages, many places are less lucky. Solar panels for the average household pay for themselves in about 20 years not including interest, labour, other costs, and the average lifespan of an inverter is 10-15 years and costs thousands of $ to replace, not including labour. Losing proposition for most people. But yes you can go off-grid especially if you have low consumption. You're paying for it, we're all paying for it, there's no free lunch.
@Maria739 But for OP4's use, it's perfect. Even if the battery degrades to like 20 percent of original charge state, if he can get to town and back on less than a full charge he's good. It all comes down to purpose. I'm sure that there are some of us here that have an old tractor that the hydraulics don't work so well, it's probably worth 2k but would require 8k to fix up so the bucket will lift more than it's own weight but we just use it as it to drag stuff out of the bush or maybe push stuff around. Ain't worth fixing but ain't dead yet. Purpose of use. I've got a sedan to go far and fast. I've got a pickup to haul stuff. I've got a trailer to haul even more stuff. And I've got a Prado (american version) to go anywhere, anytime, in any condition but not at more than 90 mph even slower if I attach the trailer. I've also got a beat up yard tractor for dragging shit around.
Electric vehicles only make sense for a small niche, and even then a small Japanese ICE car makes more sense.
Yeah, but we can't get those here easily State Side. I myself need a larger capable vehicle as we get 8-10 Meters of snow per season. about 50 percent of my travel is on unpaved roads or trails. And when it's on tarmac .. it's 70-80 mph for hours at a time at -10f to +110F Others that are maybe 10 miles outside of town, and only go to town a couple times a month can get away with just about anything, ATV, UTV, Golf Cart, EV, Hell, we got Amish here and they take horse and buggy. EV's aren't perfect for everything, just like ICE isn't perfect either. Hell starting up my Prado in the winter probably costs me 2 bucks. EV's shine (especially if you let someone else take the depreciation hit and buy it used but taken care of) under 50 miles round trip at modest speeds that you might find in the inner city and suburbs or as a 'going to town' conveyance if you are rural when the weather isn't too hot, nor too cold. ICE shine when you have to go far and fast, haul a crap ton of stuff or people, It's hotter than hell or it's subzero busting through 4 foot snow drifts. You can carry jugs of go juice with you. One could basically drive across our country without stopping if ya wore a diaper and had some stay awake pills for the 2800 miles
I knew what I was getting into. I live out in the country and put up to 16,000 miles per year on my leaf, like I said 7 years and over 100,000 miles. My incapable leaf works perfectly fine for me in my town with literally 5 stop lights. Even a slower 240v charger could easily deliver 30kwh or at least 90 miles of winter time range in 8hrs. A normal speed 240v home charger would deliver the same power in half the time. You think I bought a new one? Hahahahaha. I have never bought a new car and never will. I bought a 2010 Nissan leaf in 2018 with almost 50,000 miles on it. Mine is already 15 years old with over 150,000 miles and barely slowing down, the 100,000 miles I put on there I was using it like a pickup truck. Pulling my trailer, pulling trees down the road, not always on a trailer to pulling construction equipment like boomlifts that weigh almost as much as the car. I'd like to see a Honda civic pull a 3,300lb boom lift 30 miles up hill, +500ft in elevation in already thin air at 75mph. Electricity costs me around 2 cents a mile here, gas for my wife's hybrid Hyundai sonata is more like 10 cents per mile. That's one of the reasons why I bought it, gas is expensive and electricity is really cheap here.
I don't know anything about towing, but I know that the Nissan Leaf is not rated or designed for it Supposedly the towing capacity is 2000 lbs 3300 lbs, are you kidding? Frame? Brakes? Insurance coverage? Seems like a bad idea https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/15xl0fx/realistically_how_much_can_i_tow/
We are Americans. We don't read the manual/directions. If it breaks, we fix it and don't push it as hard next time.
Yes I see! A car with practically no value left (less than 10% of its 2010 value) is being pushed to its breaking point, will croak at any moment. Maybe that's a decent use for old used electric cars that no one wants to buy? Compared to some older classic cars, like say, a 1960s Ford Bronco with 150,000 miles, same 2000lb towing capacity, that has actually appreciated in value!
We'd probably destroy that too. Unless a collector gets ahold of it. It's destiny is a broken frame, dented body and unroadworthy demise. But'll still live as a trail rig somewhere with duct tape repaired seat cushions.
That's more like a towing suggestion. The leaf can pull a 2,000lb tree on asphalt, without a trailer, no problem. It pulls like a train. In the transmissions there are no clutches, no throw out bearing, no hydraulic or electric solenoids, no torque converter, no converter lockup. Only a motor that produces 256 foot pounds of torque, an 8 to 1 reduction gear, parking solenoid and oil. The frame of the first gen leaf is like a brick shit house. You can tell they didn't know how much the battery was going to weigh when they designed the car. It's like they built the car to handle a big battery with the average density of wet concrete. And maybe I was trying to break it.... The truck had a bad tire. I didn't want to do it, ok maybe I kinda did. I had to get the boomlift back to the rental place before they opened after having it all weekend to get the special "4hr charge" for using it over a 3 day holiday weekend. If I was late I'd get charged for all 3 days. Brakes put 50hp worth of charge back into the batteries, no one has been able to overheat the breaks on a leaf and people have tired. You would have to drag it behind a tractor trailer to overheat the brakes. Nearly all OEMs except for premium brands, most Hyundais and electrics put those stupid CVT rubber band transmissions that are designed to last a hundred thousand miles or so in their cars and SUVs. Towing with a CVT is begging for a $10,000 transmission to shit the the bed like amber heard.
It's still worth 80% to 110% of what I paid for it. Everyone wanted them up until around 2017. There was a year wait for leafs and a 2 year wait on Teslas. Untill sometime around 2016 Tesla made huge gains in production and torched most of the backlog. Then 2018 trump had gas prices back around $2.50a gallon and all of a sudden no one wanted electric vehicles any more. That's when I got my leaf, when no one wanted them. The boomers have the broncos. Theyll want more for a rusted out non running pile of horse shit than I paid for any of my vehicles. I wouldn't haul them to the scrap yard if they paid me to take it.
In real life, 2011 Nissan Leafs are selling for around $3,000 with 100K miles on Carfax depending on their condition. The current value of a 2011 Nissan Leaf is $2,457. MSRP was $32,780 in 2011 new. https://www.kbb.com/nissan/leaf/2011/ https://www.carfax.com/Research-2011-Nissan-Leaf_z4163#pricing Truly staggering depreciation even without inflation I don't think that I have ever seen a car depreciate so quickly. I wonder why. Consistent with the Carfax data, a user could not get over $4,000 for his 2011 Nissan Leaf in very good condition with a NEW battery and 55K miles. A few years later the vehicle died anyway at only 62K. Used 2011 Nissan LEAF SV 4dr Hatchback (electric DD) Consumer Reviews - 5 Car Reviews | Edmunds The current value of a 2011 Honda Civic is $3,767 or $3,580 on Carfax. https://www.kbb.com/honda/civic/2011/ Average selling price on Carfax is $6,784 for the basic model. MSRP was $15,605 in 2011 new. https://www.carfax.com/Used-2011-Honda-Civic_z3186 1967 Ford Broncos are selling for AT LEAST their MSRP ($25,854 in today's dollars) and usually a few times more. Google Search Facts, who cares? It's amazing what you were able to do with yours, but that is hardly a typical experience with EVs It seems irresponsible (reckless even) to tow far above what the vehicle is rated or intended for, and it seems irresponsible to give an exaggerated rosy picture of EVs when market data shows the opposite.
Maria, Just because You and I aren't going to use EVs doesn't mean it's wasted money for another person. In OP4s case it's his go to town car, his beater, tractor and weatherproof storage and with subsidized electricity and access to wicked amounts of solar it make financial sense/cents. Looking at his actual costs he's running about 8 cents per mile. That's way cheaper than anything on my compound or anything I've ever owned. What is right for him isn't going to cut it for me my electricity costs are over 5-6x his. And reliability of the grid out here is terrible. And where I spend over half the year going to town to get lumber, major groceries or medical care is about 200 miles round trip. So, you have facts, but raw data does not equate to information. The true cost per mile i posted earlier was for illustrative purposes if one were to buy a vehicle from new. Most of us here are more than willing, nay, demand someone else take the depreciation hit before we purchase a vehicle. Are EVs dangerous? Sure but so are ICE vehicles. In America we are a bunch of bushmen, red necks, hillbillies or what you might find normal for Norfolk. We will violate all the guidelines the manufactures put in those silly printed books by multiples, we will fix our cars with duct tape, coat hangers, rope, wire, ratchet straps, condoms, garbage bags, boards, bits of scrap steel and hose clamps and call it good. Most places don't have safety inspections and even if our cars failed the MOT inspection .. we'd say "Fuck Off" and keep driving it anyway. We don't give a shit. We'll drive it until it's either totaled due to catastropic frame rust, winding up meeting a tree or we've determined that the motor that was burning a quart of oil a day has finally locked up solid. But we'll use it as a parts donor to the other vehicle of the exact same model that runs second best in the yard. Yep, this isn't about data. It's about purpose of use. EV's work for some like OP4. And they probably work for over 40 percent of the US population that live in the large metropolitian and urban areas with decent grid reliability. ICE is the only thing that works for me and others that wander the hinterlands with nary a charging station within the county. Oh, and that blue truck above. It would be worth about 50k if it were pristine with 20k miles on it. But no, it was owned by someone that used their vehicle as a truck and not an investment so now it's worth about 500 bucks scrap price .. maybe 800 if runs and the 4wd works.
Yeah car fax is absolute trash when it comes to electric vehicles. People will pay more for one with a good battery. The only ones that are actually privately selling for less than $3,000 are absolute trash with burned up batteries with unusable range. The guy who couldn't get more than $4,000 for a used leaf with a new battery was likely some boomer who had just discovered the internet. His main problem is he was on crags list, I stopped trying to sell shit in crags list in 2013 after I realized only broke people and retards are buying shit off craigslist. Also sounds like they didn't read the manual and left it fully charged when sitting unused. That reminds me of the gold and silver posts, it doesn't do you any good if you don't have a way to sell it that maximizes payback. A dealer would offer $2,000 just to turn around and try to get $8,000 for it. If I wanted to burn $25,000 on a rusty 4x4 I'd get a used Tunda, at least it would be reliable. Kelly blue book is way out of touch with reality some times. They also claim old ford 7.3L power strokes are only worth $6,000 to $8,000. That will get you down payment on a rusted out pile of shit.
Problem with cities is a lot of time no where to charge. There's public chargers but you have to pay for those. It can be as expensive as gas when you pay to use a charger.
Electric cars do not make financial sense, even ignoring the severe rapid depreciation (which says a lot about the vehicle's life expectancy). Unless you have no choice, solar power also generally does not make financial sense (depending on subsidies), but that's a separate subject with too many variables. Again I am talking about reason and facts not personal feelings. If he wanted an inexpensive everyday car, rationally he would get a used 50mpg Honda Civic hybrid for the same price, which has a much longer life expectancy. And of course a new Honda Civic costs less than a new Nissan Leaf. No I do not own one. Average US electricity price is currently $0.1747 per kWh. Average daily American drive is 37 miles, or 12 kWh, 1/2 of a 2010 Nissan Leaf battery's capacity. So the Nissan Leaf costs $2.0964 per day to drive, IF YOU RECHARGE AT HOME (which takes several hours, LOL) Average US fuel price is currently $3.16 per gallon, which is also about the average for the 21st century so far. So the Honda Civic hybrid costs $2.3384 per day to drive, which is a negligible difference. Yet the Honda Civic is easily more cost effective because it is expected to last longer than a Nissan Leaf without major repairs that cost several thousand $ (the cost of a Leaf battery replacement), and the market confirms this. If he wanted a vehicle that could actually haul and store things, rationally he would get a used Ford Ranger, with a shell, for the same price, which has a much longer life expectancy, which is ACTUALLY INTENDED AND RATED to tow 3.5x more than a Nissan Leaf, and can store a lot more. The Ford Ranger (24mpg) that is actually intended for real Americans to haul things costs $4.8717 per day to drive, big difference from the Nissan Leaf, right? Yet at the 21st century average gas prices, with the difference between the daily cost of a Ranger and a Leaf, I calculate that if the Leaf's battery (at least $3,000, LOL, probably more) lasts at least 3 years, probably more, with no other major repairs for either vehicle, then the Nissan Leaf is more cost effective. With some classic 10mpg clunkers from the 60s and 70s that cost $11.692 to drive the average 37 miles per day, if the Nissan Leaf's battery lasts 10 months longer than the clunker without major repairs/replacements for either vehicle, then the Nissan Leaf would be more cost-effective. Electricity prices also tend to increase faster than fuel prices. For example, electricity prices are double the national average in CA and HI, but fuel prices are "only" 50% higher. Why? Partly because many thousands of soyboys charging their Nissan Leafs puts a massive strain on the power grid!
