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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Quigley_Sharps, May 15, 2011.

  1. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member



    SEALs Angry At Attention, Want It Stopped

    By Paul Bedard

    U.S. Navy SEALs, like the teams that killed Osama bin Laden, are grateful for nation's show of support but are growing angry with the continued focus on their operation, tactics, and tools, claiming it could jeopardize future raids and their safety.

    "My friends in the community tell me they're very glad for the bit of attention they got," said former Pentagon deputy undersecretary Jed Babbin, "but at some point the best way to help them is to stop. You guys in the press have done a good job, but stop for God's sake, stop." [See photos of the reaction to bin Laden's death.]

    The latest straw came when CBS revealed that the members of Special Warfare Development Group, formerly SEAL Team Six, wore helmet cams into bin Laden's lair. For many, that was a detail too far and could lead those being targeted by the military to somehow deploy countermeasures.

    And Washington Whispers this week reported on two blogs that identified the type of gun the SEALs likely used to kill bin Laden, the HK416 .

    "Anything further that comes out," added Babbin, a sponsor of the Special Operations Warfare Foundation, "could damage their operational security, maybe reveal tricks of the trade or even endanger their families."

    Rob Curtis, who writes the Gear Scout blog for Military Times, said that there are concerns that the focus on the bin Laden raid has distracted the special operations world. "There are still plenty of HVTs [high-value targets] out there that Joint Special Operations Command is hunting and according to my sources close to and inside of SOCOM this story has become a huge distraction for the community."

    [Check out political cartoons about the War in Afghanistan.]

    What's more, he adds, "It's my feeling that the administration has aimed a spotlight into one of the darkest corners of our national security apparatus without regard for the damage it might do to its ongoing operations."

    Of course, President Obama led the SEALs parade, even visiting with many after the killing in Pakistan. What's more, the public has a huge appetite for what some call "SEAL porn," stories about every little detail on how the special operations warriors operate.

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    Worthless publicity hound

    How many other high value targets might have been rolled up if this had been kept under wraps until the spooks had gotten a good look at the trove of intel we seized? But no, our braying jackass of a President couldn't wait even one day to trumpet the news and boost his poll ratings. Under normal circumstances, this clown couldn't get a high enough security clearance to be a White House janitor, and now the whole world is paying the price for the idiocy of the American voters.

    [report comment]

    John Skookum of AZ @ May 15, 2011 03:24:38 AM
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Laughable. Everything except the fact that this game has deadly results, it's laughable. It isn't so much the idea that everything written in that article is contrived fiction, as it is generally perceived as reality as a whole. Whether Bin Laden is dead or not is not even the question any more; but how he was killed and when are constantly blanketed with bold statements like, "the teams that killed Bin Laden," generally override common thought and continuously cancel any objectionable material proof offered as rebuttal. There is only one corporate media conglomerate --and they are all singing the same tune. And now we have "don't harm our brave assassins!" as impetus to draw in as many as possible (like gung-ho vets and other prideful nationalists) to add even more acceptance to the official story.

    Folks need to understand psy-ops. This is a war for your mind. The serfs are losing. Bin Laden died about 10 years ago. Creating the Bin Laden

    We are the next enemy. We, who stand against tyranny.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    QS has this EXACTLY right.... and the folks who are in this JOB, absolutely appreciate the Countries Thanks, but the rest is Bad, for OPSEC, in the EXTREME.... Let them alone, and if you ever meet a SEAL, or or even a retired SEAL, just Thank THEM, for their Service, and let it go at that......
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    It's all mind control. If you were alive in the 1940's, you would sound just like a Nazi sympathizer. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself amongst the ignorant. Here's some perspective for you:

    But, I am just a "crazy conspiracy theorist", what do I know? :rolleyes:
    Peace be with you all.
  5. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    What's more, he adds, "It's my feeling that the administration has aimed a spotlight into one of the darkest corners of our national security apparatus without regard for the damage it might do to its ongoing operations."

    Chances are with this current misadministration, that is exactly their purpose - reduce the war-fighter's capabilities. We are 'lead' by jackals........ :rolleyes:
  6. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    You really don't have the right idea, friend. This administration is no different than the last, with exception only to color. And, as with color, humans tend to be reduced to their limited perceptions. This left-right paradigm may have you confused with the real game. The secret government is not conspiring to undermine its own shadow military, it's using the very same tactics tyrants always have -to demand secrecy exists, and using the controlled media as its method to gain even more "national security" secrecy.

    It's not hard to figure out.
  7. OzarkSaints

    OzarkSaints Monkey++

    Broker is absolutely correct



    The latest straw came when CBS revealed that the members of Special Warfare Development Group, formerly SEAL Team Six, wore helmet cams into bin Laden's lair. For many, that was a detail too far and could lead those being targeted by the military to somehow deploy countermeasures.

    end qoute


    just remember people....armed sheeple with food stored in the pantry are non-the-less sheeple

    overt partisan perception leads to dis-ingenious thinking and observation.....at best.....
  8. bad_karma00

    bad_karma00 Monkey+

    After 9/11, we as a nation saw Bin Laden as the face of terror. The head of the snake. It's only natural, after so long, that being told of his demise at the hands of Navy SEALs prompts the nation as a whole to see them as heroes. To celebrate the men brave enough to go into the lions den and beard the lion, so to speak.

    But haven't they been heroes all along? To me, anyone willing to don the uniform and put it on the line, in whatever capcity, defending this nation and it's people is deserving of the name hero. I know there are bad apples, of course. There always are. But overall, they deserve our support, and our admiration.

    The trouble starts when politicians begin to use the accomplishments of these brave people to further their own causes. The need for operational security in covert teams is paramount. The announcement should have simply been that 'U.S. Special Forces' conducted the operation, and ended there.

    Instead, now everyone knows who did what. That puts the men who accomplished the raid in danger, and worse, enangers their families.

    They all deserve better.
    Tracy, Cephus and Quigley_Sharps like this.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Thanks to the corporate media and the terror campaign. The war on terror is actually a war on dissenters. As with any government operation, they require a "bad guy" to justify their own actions.
    The troops should not be the focus for those who oppose the war, just like they should not be the focus for the secret government to use the media and hype up a story which doesn't even exist; Jessica Lynch and the latest Osama stories are just two.
    Which comes first, the government who orders the troops, or the troops themselves? The answer is, the government is first. So, as you explain it, troop "accomplishments" cannot happen without there first being an order passed down from the executive. Brainwashing the citizenry into believing these heroic tales is only one way to keep your mind off the details...and the devil is in all the details, friend.
    Perhaps for a dictatorship. If you concede terrorism is a CIA funded operation and this Hegelian existence you call reality is nothing less than completely controlled, perhaps you may understand what is in play here. When governments can hide behind a cloak of secrecy and label it "national security", it immediately removes our right and duty as citizens to hold our servants in office accountable. We, the People are sovereign --we, and only WE individually have complete power to claim secrecy, not our government. This is also a global scam. You should fear the day this becomes "international security" and all crimes the peasants commit are classified along with the secret hearings, secret trials, and secret executions.
    The troops are in danger?!!? OH NO! We had better blame the evil media and support more government secrecy!! Support our brave heroes NOW!!! -- Something like this? Hey, here's a question: can you name a single member of any SEAL team in operation? You see, they are not in any danger. However, if you think you can handle kicking the a55 of a SEAL, be my guest! Only a buffoon would believe the television. (not calling you a buffoon, just saying)
    Take care!(y)
  10. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Time for a beer break. My head is going to explode.
  11. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I don't even know where to start....

    Aside from the fact that there were literally hundreds of support personnel that led to the operation that found OBL and a few of which I am personally acquainted with, the BS idea that he was already dead is exactly that- BS. Do you have any idea the level of coordination it takes for just communications for an operation of this type? Probably not. Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to stage an operation of this type and the target be frozen on ice, flown in, shot in face, autopsied by Naval personnel, and buried at sea without one single person speaking up about something not being right? I really wish you would save your latest Alex Jones drivel for the TF lounge.

    As for the government secrets...

    I have went down this road before on this subject. I certainly think capabilities should be protected. I don't think we should be digging into how these CONOPs are conducted on CBS. I have personally seen one idiot on a news channel completely ruin a targeting methodology inside MY AO by running off at the mouth. It took approximately 3 months to regain the information that we needed to continue targeting. That is where your state's secrets come in. I believe in transparency, but there is a line to draw. Sorry Geraldo, I would have booted you from theater for good.

    Are future CONOPs going to be thwarted by the enemy knowing that SEALs may or may not be using HK416s? Probably not. If we start getting into the technical aspects of the helicopters used and the types and capabilities of the SEALs comms devices, there could be a problem. Capabilities are only good if the enemy has no means to counter them.

    I do agree that this is being trumped up by the current administration from a party that is generally viewed as being weak in national defense. Is it going to be enough to help BO in the next election... hell no. Will the Republicans ever convince anyone that GWB was directly responsible... hell no. This action should be directly attributed to those men and women that made it happen. No one else. Soldiers are but mere puppets for politicians at times. It has been that way since the beginning of time. The successes and failures of our military will always be used by politicians. Such debate is not necessarily bad, either.

    Good job SEALs.
    BTPost and Seawolf1090 like this.
  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I suppose Marfan syndrome is just BS? And I suppose Bin Laden didn't require kidney dialysis either? Maybe this really is just "tin foil" material -at least, I hope it is. Then again, if it takes 11 years to kill one terrorist, what does this say about the US strategy? Bin Laden is the son of a wealthy Arab family who has ties with the Bush family, this is undeniable. There are proven links between each family and the CIA. I guess the facts really do speak for themselves...
    I am not sure how anybody with an IQ over 50 could ever believe the secret government over independent journalism, but they do. It's the same way the military personnel believe exactly what they are told on their own news networks and from their command.

    The autopsy is questionable since it has not been released, so we cannot even claim it occurred. In fact, we don't even know what body was buried at sea, and if it was Osama nobody would dare question their command. As for nobody "speaking out", this is the way it has always been with top secret/high priority targets, not every Joe has access to the information, it is strictly limited. You already know this, HighSpeed. So, to answer your question, it would take about 5 people, one night, and a little bit of urgency placed on the command involved to keep this all as quiet as possible. Not one picture, no video, nothing from the event...and everyone buys it. That's your secret government in action. All the rest of the military "witnesses" only saw a dead body wrapped in sheets being shoved into the ocean, and even that is speculation unless you can provide the video proof. Oh, I forgot..."national security". My mistake.

    I agree with you that it is important to keep OPSEC, and modern day media is a thorn, but we also have to look at the type of warfare we are involved in today and consider WHY we are there to begin with. Ron Paul wouldn't want us to be involved in this Middle East war for profit, because he knows the corporate cartels are the ones profiting while our own society sinks. End the war, stop the scandal. The alternative is to continue supporting the "war on terrorism" and exchange all liberties for added security under the protective umbrella of "national security" measures. Do you fully trust your government? I certainly don't. (y)
    Who knows really? Perhaps it was all a cover-up. This stealth helicopter crashed in the alleged "raid" on the compound. Now, my aluminum foil hat is pretty solid, so I may need further input, but I am guessing this would be a great time to pull the Bin Laden corpse out of the freezer and claim it was a raid. The last thing the Pakistanis should expect is our eyes in the sky and a finger on the button with our full attention aimed at them. YouTube - US Navy Seals Stealth Helicopter Crash - Osama Bin Laden Killed In Pakistan
    But alas, the scandal didn't go off as smoothly as it was anticipated. The world still has independent journalists and the unregulated internet. Well, at least 10% will know that something stinks. Go Seals! =P lol

    YouTube - EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW-OBL Operation Was Not Successful(Eye Witness Claims).flv
    The locals agree. No Osama Bin Laden. Hmmmpf.

    I especially love how a satellite dish mysteriously appears in photos, too. http://www.prisonplanet.com/satelli...r-dubious-videos-released-by-white-house.html

  13. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

  15. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Bin Laden was involved, took responsibility so we owed him and collected. All the rest is fluff to suit someone's political agenda.

    The most pathetic example is a failed president clutching to something, anything for survival.
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Marfan? Perhaps. I don't think Dr.Pieczenik as a clinical Psychiatrist had the placement or access to know that sort of thing. The claim of his "closeness to three administrations" is a bit exaggerated as well. The dude is a consultant, not a "Top US Gov't Insider". If he sensationalizes, he makes money- ironically, the same as Alex Jones. Dialysis, maybe. Not impossible. I'm not 100% sure that we were right. About the time OBL came onto the radar, he was under it. I've heard the theory too, but never seen anything concrete. And all this is circumstantial CT BS that is generally unprovable either way. I guess if I look hard enough, you have a link to OBL. As an expert in link analysis (I'd say it is about 75% of my job in COIN fight), I for one, know that I can make it say whatever I want. Thow it on some sensational "alternate" news site and idiots will believe it.
    I'm not sure how anyone with an IQ over 50 could ever believe the sort of complex CTs you believe could ever be orchestrated by man. With the sort of cynicism you demonstrate on a regular basis, I would think that you wouldn't have that much faith in human beings.

    Oh yeah, except for the SEALs that were on the operation, the pilots that flew it, the chopper crews, the flight line crews, the intelligence analysts that provided the operational support, the intel analysts that provided the planning support, the commo guys that bounce those signals, the Skipper (it sure as sh*t is the Skipper's boat), the mortuary dicks that handled and stored the bodies, the strategic debriefers, and the Naval doc that checked the body. But, you are right all those people are mindless drones that only do things they are told. One would question how the military ever gets bad press.... oh that's right we aren't mindless drones. :D

    No, I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I've been teaching OPSEC for over 7 years and I have yet to see an operation with 100% fool proof OPSEC. NO missions happen without a mission statement. Part of a mission statement is the "why". Always has been and always will be. I've never see a single success with telling someone to plan or execute an operation without details. I'm not sure what your experience was in the military, but in hundreds of operations I have planned and participated in through 27 months of combat operations (whether small unit patrols or large Strategic level operations) I have never seen an operation conducted without the operators/planners having the 5 Ws. Even in a time constrained environment (which SOCOM rarely conducts) the mission and commander's intent will be known by all. This is per Army and Joint doctrine.

    Hey, you are preaching to the choir. I am all about an isolationist-type policy. I say unleash us to whoop ass and leave as needed. This nation building BS is for the birds. To say that the War on Terror has made you exchange liberties is bit exaggerated. I hear this all the time. The reality is that other than TSA wanting to look at your balls on a machine, not much has changed for the average American. If you are a Saudi living in Jersey, you may be affected. Rightfully so, IMHO. The Muslim agenda isn't a secret. How do you combat that constitutionally? Hell if I know. I'd start with enforced immigration to rid the country of future threat. IMHO, the same old tried and true domestic law enforcement approach can be used effectively. I'd say the justice department needs slightly more power to track things into the international realm. Does that mean that they need unlimited ability to tap everyone? No. Of course, they don't have that now either (there are a ton of outright falsities that are touted as truth... try reading the legislation).

    My point is that a lot of people talk in "theory" about how their rights are infringed. In practice, that is few and far between. The Patriot Act is a dying animal (it missed re-authorization of key pieces in FEB) and it doesn't appear to really be supported by either party in the near future. I don't believe in the PA based upon one item- the loose definition of terrorism. While the .gov has been really good about its employment so far (with a few exceptions that generally never pass a review court), there is potential for misuse.

    The fact that its a "scandal" is all an assumption on your behalf based on sensationalized falsities by individuals that stand to gain by the buzz they create. There is indeed a burned helicopter there, it is indeed covered by local sources, and there didn't have to be for the "scandal" you describe. The Pakis know there was a raid and they sure as hell ain't happy about it. The locals heard the choppers and there are way too many variables to risk this sort of operation for a farce. We basically invaded a sovereign nation (ie- no permission) whom is constantly warring with a sophisticated next door neighbor. The largest risk to an air assault is the flight/landing. Those birds could easily have been shot down by the Pakis. We risked it anyways. Why? If I was part of the illuminati-Bilderberg-Bush Dynasty-FDR-Fed conspiracy, and everything you said was true, I would NOT risk complete failure and I would shoot said frozen corpse in AFG where we own the airspace. Of course, none of that happened because it was not as your sensationalist, self serving news fabricator made it.

    Well, lets see.... you just linked some of the most unreliable news coverage ever. Take everything you hear from any foreign news with a grain of salt. Do you have any other corroboration or any sort of reliability / experience with Paki TV? No? Me either. I'll bet Mr Bashir didn't see much in the dead of night with shooting and helicopters, and why they couldn't take a body because a helicopter crashed makes no absolutely no sense.

    I'm not sure what the point is here... it appears that locals have ransacked the former compound of OBL? Are you surprised? Maybe the corrupt police or Paki military? Again, sensationalized BS. A bit of suggestion and you draw the conclusions of your sensationalizing god. Of course that is what Alex Jones wants... a cult like following.

    I'm not even sure why I am dignifying this BS with a response.
    Seawolf1090 and BTPost like this.
  17. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

  18. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member


    ama bin Laden, who was shot dead by US forces May 2, was hale and hearty and was "not on dialysis", the al Qaeda leader's wife has told investigators. Osama's youngest wife, Amal al-Sadah, said Osama was hale and hearty and had recovered from his kidney ailment. "He was not on dialysis," Dawn quoted an official as saying. It was widely believed that Osama was suffering from a kidney ailment and needed constant dialysis.
    Amal, who hails from Yemen and was just 17 when she wed Osama, has said that the 9/11 mastermind had undergone two kidney surgeries in Afghanistan's south-western Kandahar province during the Taliban regime.

    He had recovered and was using homemade medications including water melons.

    "He was neither weak nor frail," an official quoted Amal as saying.

    "He believed in his own medication," she said.

    Amal sustained a bullet injury in her left leg when US commandos stormed Osama's hideout in Abbottabad city May 2. Osama was killed in the daring raid carried out by US Navy SEALs and his body was later buried at sea.
  19. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I found another issue with these photos:
    It appears that whoever posted them to the Alex Jones site had them photoshopped. Here is an aerial imagery pic that was taken quite awhile ago:


    What you will notice is the absence of a side building from the similar angle in the "uncorrupted" comparison photos. Why does this old aerial image show the side building and the government image shows the side building, but the images that whomever at Alex Jones's website added show no side building? Is it because the gov photoshopped every known image of the building over a year ago on all databases everywhere or that Alex Jones photoshopped comparison pics to sensationalize a CT and to get those susceptible to this type of manipulation in an uproar for his own purposes?

    Yet, we are the sheeple..... please [loco]

    (ETA: the image above is 1-3 years old and occurred no earlier than the rainy season last year- about the first week of JUL 2010)
  20. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    You have it backwards, Al. The Prisonplanet article explained that it was indeed a photoshopped image used by the media to back the claim that Osama had internet.

    As for the rest of your post, it was very sane and reasonable. I sometimes wish I could share your outlook. I guess we will see who is right in the end. Maybe after we invade Pakistan, who knows?
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