1 Weapon For Home Defense

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by melbo, Dec 2, 2007.


  1. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Had a guy approach me today.
    60ish, has never held a firearm in his life.
    Is concerned about the coming an current events.

    Wants a firearm and me to teach him how to use it.

    He will (more than likely) never train regularly with it so it will just be an inside the bedroom door piece. He feels compelled to have something now and I want to help him out.

    Thoughts?

    I'm thinking shotgun.

    But, we could look at rifles or handguns as well.

    weird times. I just today sold a 68 yr old woman a shotgun for the same reasons. She showed me how to load and unload it and told me that you didn't need to push that little button that releases the pump if you pull the trigger!
     
  2. evilgijoe88

    evilgijoe88 Monkey+++

    a simple 38 revolver would work. low maintenance, reliable, and easy to learn.
     
  3. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    .38 4". 12 or 20 ga side by side coach gun. About the simplest"manual of arms avail, an external hammer gun can stay loaded "hammer down" without the springs taking a set. a modern one canbe stored empty (springs relaxed)and be loaded in less than a second.Max intimidation factor,Max hit probability. ease of use. some 2.75 reduced recoil defense OO,or even some #4's within 21ft . slip a shell holder sleeve on the stock,adda recoil pad to fit.
    IMHO 2 immediate shots of "OO" is enough for a civilian home owner. (18! .30 caliber balls heading downrange at what about 1100fps?)in two trigger pulls..
    Hell I want one.
    pistol caliber lever action carbine is another ;notsure a semiauto carbine is such a good idea because of various malfunctions, failure to feed, failure to eject, failure to fire, gotta troubleshoot an unfamiliar machine in the dark under stress.
     
  4. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    I love the shotty but it has it's downsides in this case:

    1) Cramped quarters in the house... revolver is better. A shotty takes a lot longer to go from sitting in the corner to pointed at the bad guy.

    2) You can't answer the door with a shotgun in your hands (not effectively and covertly)



    It's hard to cover your bases with one gun.

    Does he live in the country? Is he considering having to hunt some game? A shotty/revolver team would handle everything there.

    The pistol cal lever action carbines Tango speaks of are good "home in the country, all around utility" pieces, and when teamed with a matching caliber revolver you've got a pretty versatile solution.

    Marlin model 94 in 38/357 or 44spc/44mag. Teams up with a nightstand revolver in matching caliber pretty well. Either caliber can take deer at 100 yds no problem. 357 ballistics out of a carbine are almost as good as a 30-30.
     
  5. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I would definatly say a pump shotgun would be the way to go. Its length makes it easier to point accurately than a handgun so hits are more likely, maximum knockdown you can get, less likely to overpenetrate into a neighbors house and hit unintended targets, more affordable than a decent handgun etc. The second choice for someone new to guns and not likely to train/practice regularly would be something like the S&W .38 spl that comes with crimson trace grips. It is adequate for power, simple to work and with the laser, once sighted in, any novice can hit a target at home defense ranges or past.

    I would definatly go with the shotgun though and most likely with a 20 guage since they would be MORE likely to practice some with a gun that has less recoil than a 12 guage and the 20 will still put them down plenty well. It would also be optional then to put a folding stock or pistol grips on it for better manuverability in tight spaces but the folder would still let it be shouldered for longer ranges. Then theres also the bonus that every bad guy out there will recognize the sound of a pump shotgun going into battery in the dark and its the last sound they want to, and likely will, hear.
     
  6. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Good points from Blackjack on the drawbacks of a shotgun. I would have to agree that it would be MUCH more ideal to have both a pump shotgun AND a handgun since this would cover all the bases from something to toss in the glovebox or carry if needed to anwsering the door alte at night, hunting if desired or needed and most everything else you need a gun to do unless you get into long range stuff past 100 yards.

    If its an option I would say go for the 2 but if it HAS to be just 1 then I would still say the shotgun since it CAN be taken to the door with you and talk through the closed door then used if the door is forced.
     
  7. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    My 2 cents: I think the shotgun is great and may be the best home defense, but you can carry your pistol with you all the time. If your shotgun is in the house while you're weeding your garden, then you may have lost everything.

    My vote would be to get the pistol first and save up for a shotgun/long gun... but I'm ready to change my mind if there are compelling arguments.
     
  8. annie

    annie Monkey+++

    You didn't mention, does he have any preference ?

    How does he envision using it ? Last line defense, a little food retrieval ?

    Shotty just for the sound of the pump action........

    But then again, how about one of those double barrel babies, think it's a .45 & 410 ? Maybe that's silly, but I always sleep better with something under my pillow.......lol

    Good luck to you both, I'm curious. annie
     
  9. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Pump shotgun specificly 5 shot with 18 inch barrel so it is shortest and still stay legal. Pistol grip WITH a butstock. Pistol grip will allow it to be pointed and fired in lots of flexible angles. Only place where I prefer a pistol is in REALLY cramped spaces like a car. Or if it is point blank where for whatever reason dark, cover, etc the enemy can close to arms length before they are detected.

    Lets face some truths. If someone has not had a lot of practice shooting they are better off with a long gun. Pistol you can be 5 yards or even closer and someone with a shakey hand can miss entirely.

    Pistol is superior in a very narrow set of circumstances and takes a lot more skill to use proficiently. On top of being much more expensive. Home defence for most people would be best served by a shotgun. Even more so for a beginner.

    If your going to hit just once much better chance of a one shot stop from a shotgun. The only real drawback for most people would be concealability and weight. Neither are of much concern inside a home.

    A good idea would be a small belt knife that is always on you. Like the Kbar TDI law enforcement knife. Designed specificly to be a quick response knife for extreme close quarters. Designed by Tactical Defense Institute for Kbar.

    But best weapon for home defense will be the weapon a person is most comfortable with.
     
  10. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    If he has never used a gun in his life, then a pump shotgun. Won't take much training and the "rack" effect will do half the work for him. Trying to train a old dog a new trick isn't going to be easy and pistols require some competency and understanding that old man eyes cant overcome, unless you put laser grips on it and now we are starting to talk cost. If you start depending on knives at that age, then it is over, you are just tallying the final score. My vote is the shotgun.
     
  11. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Sniper is dead on the money. I recall my old granny had a burglar; she also had an old .32 under her mattress and freaked out and shot a hole in her wall, two miss-fires (really old ammunition) , and then a round refused to clear the barrel but fortunately got stuck in the forcing cone and wouldn't let the cylinder rotate to fire another time; the burglar got away.
     
  12. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    I am with sniper & seacowboys
     
  13. sheen_estevez

    sheen_estevez Monkey+++

  14. Northwoods

    Northwoods Monkey+++

    mmmmm...this is alot harder that i thought it would be..
    a shot gun in 12ga the shorter the better, pistol grip is a must and ghostring sights.
    now depending on what he wants to prepare for i think he will need a second gun.
    maybe a mini 14 with a folding stock.
     
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Given the question, single gun, home and personal defense only, the shottie is the answer. Short (but legal so practice outside doesn't attract too much of the wrong kind of attention) barreled long mag pump and preferably (to me) no shoulder stock for manueverability in close quarters that are (more often than not) the case in a house or apt. This is not a multipurpose widget that will be used for other things like hunting, and most likely will not be aimed, just point/shoot, no sights needed. For the little old ladies and others on the light side, 20 gage makes sense to me as well.

    Melbo, that little old lady you are dealing with is on her way to the right path. I can see you training a whole new batch of canasta players in the near future. Good for her. And someone that age has seen a lot, might have some good scoop for us on the way things used to be and may be again.
     
  16. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    You guys should grab a stoeger/rossi or even baikal "coach gun" with 20" bbls. Without all the mechanicals of the pump action in the receiver its alot shorter than a pump even with a regular butt stock than you would think. It's a heck of a lot easier to clean and its easier to safe and know when its loaded .I would agree its easier to discretely answer the door with a .38in a pocket or waist band and the revolver has none of the springs setting problems of an auto. doesn't get any simpler that those two. maybe throw in massad ayoobs "gravest extreme".so they know when to shoot...
     
  17. Northwoods

    Northwoods Monkey+++

    didn't even think of a double...i got a buddy with a stoeger black stock and nickle plated...he will not sell it...i've tried.....:censored:
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Agree to a point, that being that the short doubles have only two chances to swat the BG or one each for two BGs. OK for some that are practiced and (perhaps) even skilled, but I cannot help thinking that more than two ready for use is better than two. (Not to mention that a pump gun doesn't weigh much more than a double even with the mag fully loaded. And it isn't exactly difficult to take down an 870, for example, for cleaning.)

    Talking of safe and knowing it's loaded, it is, by definition and all known laws of common sense. I can't accept that as a criteria for home defense.

    I'm a fan of wheel guns. That said, unless you go to the relatively high dollar items, double action pulls tend to be stout. Again, OK for those that are not afflicted by (say) arthritis or suffer the slings and arrows of strength loss that comes with age.

    Keep going, you may convince me yet. (Those coach guns are neat, no doubt.) 'Till then, I like pumps for single gun setups. All IMHO, of course.
     
  19. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    My suggestion is the shotgun. But it is hard having that with you 24/7 even inside your own home. Have the shotgun handy but the knife is with you 24/7. Belt knives are deployd as a last resort when you are already in a scuffle. It's intention is to enhance a simple basic punching motion that is quite instinctual already. Might as well leave punctures where before that same punch would have meant just about nothing. The knife is very small and when held is almost completely inside the hand with only the blade exposed. Hard to take away, nothing to "grip" but the blade for the attacker.[​IMG]

    Read my post again if you think I'm suggesting a knife over a shotgun. It is to get you to the shotgun or take the place of it only if unavailable.
     
  20. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    No, I'm not saying that, I am just thinking about most older people, they don't have the speed or skill to manage a knife against a burgler. Burglers are generally young men and if a burgler is coming in against a person that he knows is there, he will have a weapon such as a bat as a minimum and that isn't where they want to be. I admit that a knife is better than nothing, but with most of the older men in my family, arthritis is so pervasive that they can't manage a knife, let alone dinner utinsiles most of the time.
     
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