1 Weapon For Home Defense

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by melbo, Dec 2, 2007.


  1. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    My final evaluation on the matter:

    There is no way to cover his bases with one gun. Two is a minimum, but if he insists on only one......

    My vote is for the 38 snubby. I agree the shotty is good, but it is unweildy in the home (especially for an older person). If I were burglarizing his home, I would rather know that his only gun is a shotty rather than a 38 on his nightstand. It's harder and slower to get to and use. Plus he will not take it everywhere with him (the garage/garden/etc) where packin the 38 is no trouble at all.

    Ideally, a pump shotty and a 38 revolver duo would prepare anyone adequately for tshtf.

    btw.. Taurus makes some excellent and inexpensive 38/357 revolvers w/ 2" bbls.
    Laser grips would be a nice touch if he can afford it.
     
  2. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Being older than most of you, I have to agree with Sniper on this one. First, I don't think I would end up on the winning end of hand to hand combat. Second, by the time I got the knife out of the sheath, the intruder would drop me if he was so inclined. I prefer to keep my dog at me side.
     
  3. Halffast

    Halffast Wannabe Hack Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Glock 17 or 19.
     
  4. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    While the shotgun certainly has it's place in home defense I no longer regard it as the #1 choice or the only choice for HD for any1 especially those without extensive experience and no intention of acquiring it .

    The criminals in the modern world bold enough to commit an invasion of a occupied home are Far more deadly and quite likely far more experienced in hurting people quickly than the goon who accidentally found someone home in a simple burglary attempt .

    Chance are home invaders may have been in prison and or a gang and done some practice/initiation process that will make his reflexes much faster and more automatic .

    Remember the rule action beats reaction ? The homeowner will be reacting especially if he/she unwittingly opens a door and is attacked using a simple rush technique .

    Trying to run into a room where a shotgun is kept or even bring a 20+ inch weapon to bear in close quarters is going to be monumental task for a surprised and perhaps slightly injured person having been knocked back and perhaps down when rushed and hit with a door .

    Simply retaining possession of the weapon is iffy in such a situation .

    If they had to run to a room where the gun is kept the attacker would no doubt be literally "hot on their Heels" and a grab and engage weapon with one hand in my opinion is a must have .

    The double action revolver is and always will be the Superior weapon for this application for those with little or no experience , and a quality auto pistol second .

    With a person with no experience I would be far more worried about his mental conditioning than a weapon selection anyway .

    I would run him through some drills of bringing up guns and engaging targets without wasting time on warnings and all the useless BS television has ingrained in the mindset of most people especially in a HD shooting VS a street shooting .

    Slow deliberate DA point shooting at targets as close as 5 feet and as far as perhaps 20 would be my first concern here .

    I would ingrain in him that SA is for the movies NOT a life and death fight in his home .

    I would steer him toward a nice used S&W 19 with a 4 inch barrel or similar gun .

    Non gun people tend to panic in any emergency we would probably begin to fightback even if it was hand to hand if needed with every intention of killing our attacker "of course we cant state that should we prevail after the fact" despite what the law has to say on the subject .

    Personally Melbo since he wants you to train him first I would verbally push the guy and pick his brain as to what falsehoods he may hold as defense gospel from a lifetime of never owning a gun and watching TV .

    If he becomes uncomfortable with answering pointed questions I wouldn't bother with him as in todays world YOU assume some kind of liability as his instructor if he gets himself hurt or killed for his not following through on his training .
     
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    A good dog is a definate plus. Shotguns protected mom and the young uns' from indians, aboriganies, red coats, bears, and beasts and still will do the job on a crack-head plundering the DVD player. Most home invasions occur while you are asleep, a sound is heard or some other alert that sends you to investigate. If I hear a sound or the dogs alert me at night in my home, the puppies are released first, I keep a cell-phone by my bed (phone lines can be cut), My wife keeps her shotgun at ready by the safe room. Interior walls do not offer much protection during an exchange of gunfire, therefore it is prudent to keep some additional cover between you and the door. There are not many bullet proof barriers in the ordinary house, a bathtub or a mattress will offer the most protection. The object is to protect youself and your family, not to play Rambo. Possessions can be replaced but people cannot. Call 911 and don't forget to tell them that you are armed to defend yourself so nobody gets an accidental vent installed.
     
  6. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Going to have to disagree with you on multiple points on this one. First off, coordination and skill level needed to fire a pistol is so much higher than rifles and HIT the target. I have introduced many people to firearms and they all take to rifles much better in hitting where they want. In a stressful situation the last thing a beginner is going to do his put rounds on target with a pistol. Unless they are willing to put in a lot of practice time to become proficient with a pistol I would not recommend it.

    On a professional level primary cqb weapons are still rifles (mp5 being a popular choice) and shotguns. Pistols are there basicly a last resort weapon.

    Unless you are interested in concealed carry, constant carry, or extreme close quarters pistols are not the best choice. Point shooting with a pistol is neither easy nor a quick skill to aquire. I would be more afraid of a novice with a shotgun than a novice with a pistol if I were a bad guy.

    Why start of a beginner with something that is harder to aim properly ?
     
  7. Evenglischatiest

    Evenglischatiest Monkey+++

    I have to put in another vote for a pump shotgun. If this guy is 60ish, and has never fired a gun, I'd strongly question his willingness to pull the trigger if he needs to. And even if he does, how likely is he to hit anything? I think intimidation is his best chance, and there's not much more intimidating than racking a pump shotgun. As a non-gun person, I'd expect he'd be more comfortable with a full stock, preferably in wood. Something that looks and feels more "cowboy" than "SWAT."

    That said, if he's willing to put in some time practicing, a .38 revolver is a more all-around useful weapon. But I doubt that what he's looking for. He probably wants a shield more than a gun. Something to just sit there, and somehow protect him by it's mere presence. Again, that makes intimidation the biggest factor.

    Unless he's willing to practice with it fairly regularly, an automatic probably wouldn't be a good idea. If it's just going to sit there, untouched, for years at a time, a revolver is far more likely to actually work right when it's finally needed.

    And of course, a big dog would probably be better for this guy than any gun could be. And it would certainly give him a bit of warning, so he could get the gun in time.

    Honorable mention:
    One of those $5.00 laser pointers. Again, intimidation.
     
  8. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    The standard shotgun stock without the pistol grip feels completely different in cqb. The pistol grip allows more flexibility in shooting angles and speed in changing directions of aim. Along with a better grip on the shotgun if you want to retain the weapon. (someone is pulling on it.)

    Try it yourself. Once you try a shotgun with a pistolgrip (with a buttstock) you won't go back to a regular stock. Not much of a difference if your shooting skeet or hunting, but in cqb a world of difference.
     
  9. Evenglischatiest

    Evenglischatiest Monkey+++

    Hartage-

    No arguments. I'm with you on all points.
    But I'm going under the assumption that this guy has little to no intention of ever actually shooting anything. If he's 60 and he's never held a gun, he'd probably be turned off by anything that hints of "evil black gun."
     
  10. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Though I believe in the coach gun, as far as handgun hits , remember we are talking across the living room distances,not pursueing attackers outside. I agree it's easier to wrestle a long gun from the homeowner,another point for the .38 the 12ga is gonna roar at night in a closed room.
    And with a pump you get a 28"for sporting uses and an 18" 20" barrel for more "social" purposes (exactly what I have 28"/18" on a 12ga 870.)
     
  11. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++


    Lol, maybe a wood grain paint scheme with the name "red ryder" on the side might make it more paletable.

    Hmm come to think of it might be a good idea to recomend the little shortie aguila 12ga rounds. They have less kick and are shorter than standard 12ga so you can fit more in the tube. The reduced recoil might also make it more managable for 60+ yo guys that are just learning.
     
  12. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Just my two cents: the mp5,and uzi are popular as cqb weapons because they are maneuverable, 9mm sub machine guns. the other popular nato option; the m4 carbine is also short, manueverable,and capable of full auto or at least burst fire,

    grampa's probably not gonna walk around packin all day before tshtf or teowawki...( maybe some folks do already, and thats up to you and your situation.) I don't.[patr]
    I get the impression we are talking about the occasional squirrel/bunny hunt and providing comfort from the closet( when and If needed.)
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    That last is where I think this was headed, possibly excepting the bunny hunt.[beer][gone]
     
  14. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Here you go, Grandpa!
    lahti.
     
  15. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Not in close quarters you wouldn't..... a shotty is MUCH easier to wrestle away from someone without getting shot than a little revolver.

    We're talking about an old guy inside the house. Inside the house it's all close quarters combat. What's the chance of the guy actually being able to competantly clear the house.... around corners, through doors with a big old shotty? A determined criminal can neutralize that thing in a heartbeat.


    I'm still voting for the 38 revolver.
     
  16. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    OK, final answer, a pump action revolver .38 with buckshot!
     
  17. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    well we hashed that out "perty good" .mdl10 .38 special or mdl 19 .357 loaded with g 38 specials?
    6", 4" or,2.75 (sp101) or snubby???
     
  18. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    wtf? is that and why isnt it mounted on a wheeled carriage??[dunno][sawgunner]foosed
     
  19. Nailbender

    Nailbender Monkey+++

    I like that
     
  20. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Neutralize a shotgun ? Are you kidding me ? Hrt, swat entry teams, look at their reaction when they come across someone with even a .22 shooting at them inside a house. Usually it's "shots fired, shots fired" then they back the hell up back outside.

    So your telling me that if our swat and a WHOLE TEAM at that won't even try the famed fairytale disarm manuver that a single bad-guy will ? So now we are facing super-uber-ninja bad guys that single handedly will do things a whole fully armored swat team won't do ????

    The most likely scenario would be if the bad-guy knows your armed he will either break contact or shoot you before you shoot him. If I were the bad guy two things come to mind, run away or kill quickly. Disarm will not even cross my mind. When was the last time you saw a swat team end an armed confrontation with a struggle for the gun ? They either get the hell out of there (retreat) or they shoot to kill.

    Faced with the bad guy knowing I'm armed and now wants to shoot me first I prefer having a shotgun rather than handgun.

    Well tell that to entry teams across the nation. In their stack it's going to be rifles and shotguns as primary weapons. Someone should tell them they are using the wrong weapons for the job.



    As someone else said in another post. Shotguns have been protecting farms, stagecoaches, police, and swat teams since the days of cowboys and indians. It simply works and works very well.
     
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