10 days to bury Mandela

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stg58, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Kansas City shuffle.
  2. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    On AF One
    Barack Obama and the first lady, Michelle Obama, departed on board Air Force One at 8.20am on Monday, with a list of passengers that would not ordinarily mix. They included former president George W Bush and his wife, Laura; Hillary Clinton, the former secretary of state; and several senior White House advisers. Others confirmed on Air Force One were the attorney general, Eric Holder, national security adviser Susan Rice, economics adviser Valerie Jarrett and Hilary's daughter.

    The congressional plane
    The Republican senator Ted Cruz is the arguably the most high-profile US lawmaker in a delegation of more than 20 members of the House and Senate traveling to South Africa.

    Yet another plane

    While former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and Clinton’s daughter, Chelsea Clinton, will travel separately to the event.

    With advance aircraft, security aircraft, the C-17's for barrys limos probably a dozen + aircraft.

    And the cracker jack SA military will be in charge of overall security:)
    South Africa’s Defense Minister Nosivewe Mapisa-Nqakula told the media that more than 11,000 troops have been deployed, as well as a coordinated plan involving the military, air force and police.

    "Thousands" of officers will direct traffic, protect mourners and help the bodyguards of visiting dignitaries, Lt. Gen. Solomon Makgale, a spokesman for the South African Police Service, told the AP.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Don't forget the charted aircraft that's carrying the money.
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  4. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    T. Mark Graham
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
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  5. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    “We Communist Party members are the most advanced revolutionaries in modern history ... the enemy must be wiped out from the face of the earth before a Communist world can be realized.”—Nelson Mandela, during his 1962 trial for terrorism. Quoted in The Wanderer, July 1, 1990, page 6.
    Brokor likes this.
  6. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    No surprise that barry is the first president to go out of his way to shake hands with another communist dictator Raul Castro.

    Corrected: obama and Castro's encounter was the first of its kind between sitting U.S. and Cuban presidents since Bill Clinton and Fidel shook hands at the U.N. in 2000.

    How long before he drops the embargo and sends billions of dollars in aid to the Castro brothers...

    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  7. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    3 Things You Didn’t (Want To) Know About Nelson Mandela
    LEE JENKINS JUNE 27, 2013 1,070
    The hero of the anti-apartheid struggle was not the saint we want him to be.

    The image of Nelson Mandela as a selfless, humble, freedom fighter turned cheerful, kindly old man, is well established in the West. If there is any international leader on whom we can universally heap praise it is surely he. But get past the halo we’ve placed on him without his permission, and Nelson Mandela had more than a few flaws which deserve attention.

    He signed off on the deaths of innocent people, lots of them

    Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights

    -Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983

    -Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985

    -Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988

    -Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986

    -Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead

    -Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987

    -Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988

    Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

    As President he bought a lot of military hardware

    Inheriting a country with criminally deep socio-ecnomic problems, one might expect resources to be poured into redressing the imbalances of apartheid. Yet once in office, even Mandela’s government slipped into the custom of putting national corporatism, power and prestige above its people. Deputy Minister of Defence Ronnie Kasrils said in 1995 that the government’s planned cuts in defence spending could also result in the loss of as many as 90,000 jobs in defence-related industries.

    Mandela’s government announced in November 1998 that it intended to purchase 28 BAE/SAAB JAS 39 Gripen fighter aircraft from Sweden at a cost of R10.875 billion, i.e. R388 million (about US$65 million) per plane. Clearly, the all-powerful air armadas of Botswana weighed heavily on the minds of South African leaders…

    Not content with jets, in 1999 a US$4.8 billion (R30 billion in 1999 rands) purchase of weaponry was finalised, which has been subject to allegations of corruption. The South African Department of Defence’s Strategic Defence Acquisition purchased a slew of shiny new weapons, including frigates, submarines, corvettes, light utility helicopters, fighter jet trainers and advanced light fighter aircraft.

    Below are some of the purchases made, presumably to keep the expansionist intentions of Madagascar at bay…


    Original Qty

    Illustrative total cost



    R4 billion

    Maritime helicopter for corvettes


    R1 billion

    New submarines to replace Daphne


    R5,5 billion

    Alouette helicopter replacement


    R2 billion

    Advanced light fighter


    R6-9 billion

    Main Battle Tank replacement of Olifant


    R6 billion

    Total cost in 1998 Rand

    R25-38 billion

    Mandela was friendly with dictators

    Despite being synonymous with freedom and democracy, Mandela was never afraid to glad hand the thugs and tyrants of the international arena.

    General Sani Abacha seized power in Nigeria in a military coup in November 1993. From the start of his presidency, in May 1994, Nelson Mandela refrained from publicly condemning Abacha’s actions. Up until the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in November 1995 the ANC government vigorously opposed the imposition of sanctions against Nigeria. Shortly before the meeting Mandela’s spokesman, Parks Mankahlana, said that “quiet persuasion” would yield better results than coercion. Even after the Nigerian government announced the death sentences against Saro-Wiwa and eight other Ogoni activists, during the summit, Mandela refused to condemn the Abacha regime or countenance the imposition of sanctions.

    Two of the ANC’s biggest donors, in the 1990s, were Colonel Muammar Gaddafi of Libya and President Suharto of Indonesia . Not only did Mandela refrain from criticising their lamentable human rights records but he interceded diplomatically on their behalf, and awarded them South Africa ‘s highest honour. Suharto was awarded a state visit, a 21-gun salute, and The Order of Good Hope (gold class).

    In April 1999 Mandela acknowledged to an audience in Johannesburg that Suharto had given the ANC a total of 60 million dollars. An initial donation of 50 million dollars had been followed up by a further 10 million. The Telegraph ( London ) reported that Gaddafi was known to have given the ANC well over ten million dollars.

    The apartheid regime was a crime against humanity; as illogical as it was cruel. It is tempting, therefore, to simplify the subject by declaring that all who opposed it were wholly and unswervingly good. It’s important to remember, however, that Mandela has been the first to hold his hands up to his shortcomings and mistakes. In books and speeches, he goes to great length to admit his errors. The real tragedy is that too many in the West can’t bring themselves to see what the great man himself has said all along; that he’s just as flawed as the rest of us, and should not be put on a pedestal.
    Brokor, stg58, tulianr and 1 other person like this.
  8. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    The left will likely call him a racist.
    U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner told a group of Brookfield Republicans recently that U.S. officials should not be lowering American flags as a measure of respect for Nelson Mandela -- despite an executive order to do so.

    Speaking at the Venice Club in Brookfield, Sensenbrenner said he respected the former South African president, who died last week, according to Brookfield Now. But the Menomonee Falls Republican said at the event, organized by the Waukesha County GOP, that does not mean U.S. flags should be lowered.

    "Lowering the flag should be for mourning Americans and not for foreign leaders," Sensenbrenner said on Friday to cheers
  9. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    The "leader" was a fake so the interpreter fit the occasion..
    Deaf interpreter for Nelson Mandela memorial a fake: officials

    South Africa's deaf federation said Wednesday that the interpreter used for the Johannesburg memorial — attended by nearly 100 heads of state, including U.S. President Barack Obama — was a fake. Outraged leaders in the deaf community said the mystery man was "literally flapping his arms around."
    Brokor likes this.
  10. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I agree with the writer of this article that Nelson Mandela had some flaws. He, himself, acknowledged a host of them on many occasions. I agree that he wasn't a saint; but I don't agree with the smear campaign that seems to have surfaced as a backlash to the positive attention being accorded his memory. I got no dog in this fight, except that I am a fan of the truth, and I really dislike the spin that various writers, both professional and amateur, want to place on historical fact, to support a political or personal agenda.

    The above story does a good job of pointing out the more egregious acts of Umkhhonto. Any terrorist act that targets non-combatants is to be condemned. What the story above does not point out is that Nelson Mandela was incarcerated in 1962, and remained in custody until 1990. He was not in control of the Umkhonto organization during the years of 1983 to 1988, when the most violent attacks occurred. Until Mandela's incarceration, the Umkhonto organization had only attacked government buildings and facilities at times that people should not have been present, in an effort to eliminate or minimize the chance of innocent injury or death.

    That is WHY, at his trial, he was not charged with murder, or attempted murder, or grievous bodily injury. He was not charged with anything more serious than sabotage. He was sentenced to life in prison for 156 acts of sabotage against a government that thought that human and political rights should only be accorded to whites. I wouldn't be beyond a little sabotage myself if faced with a government and governing society that not only did not represent my interests, but actively worked to keep me and those like me under their collective boot. (I actually see the possibility of this in our future.)

    I'm still impressed that after twenty-seven years of incarceration by the South African regime, he didn't emerge from prison singing "Kill All the White People." He came out and offered a hand of reconciliation. For that alone, he deserves my nod.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
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  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    The only good communist is a dead communist. It is only in this very manner Mandela has proven himself to be good.
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  12. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I still remember the Pavlovian response that was instilled in us young recruits in Marine Basic some thirty odd years ago, and which was expected whenever we were told to sit - "Kill a Commie for Christ Today, Sir!" I still look back upon that and laugh, and think how simplistic are the labels with which we choose to color our world, and to what warped purposes we utilize them. I don't think any of us assembled aspiring jarheads had ever met a "Commie;" and we certainly had no serious understanding of the social and political foundations of communism. Still, we were ready to kill a "Commie," should we ever meet one. Perhaps they would be wearing the color red, and waving a sickle. That would have certainly simplified things for us. It would have sucked for Santa Claus, had we encountered him gathering wheat. The fat boy would have gone down.

    Communism = A socialist movement identified by a classless, moneyless society, with common ownership of land and means of production. No wonder the Native Americans were nearly wiped out by the European capitalistic settlers. Heck, the Indians were even red. Bunch of freaking communists, the lot of them. ;)
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  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yup. It goes both ways, and taken to the extreme, no way of life is perfect. I am certain that in a perfect world, maybe far in the future when humankind is more civilized and has shed its fears and contempt for one another, a socialist ideal may prove to be beneficial.

    And perhaps not.

    I like to think we had it right, for a time. A minimalist society based on the root principles centered around respect for private property and individual rights, and its only flaw was a limited government.

    Whenever somebody tells you that you are equal in every way and shows up with men in black with machine guns to enforce this belief, it's a sure bet something is off. Communism is destructive, it was designed to infiltrate existing societies and destroy from within, preying upon the poor and needy, while encouraging the use of enforcers of law to bring about change. The distribution of wealth moves toward the upper class, who also tend to be the political leaders, and government grows disproportionately out of control, increasing its size incrementally right along with its despotic rule.

    It is no wonder why any lover of liberty can despise Communism --it is its exact antithesis.
    tulianr likes this.
  14. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

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