2ND AMENDMENT, WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU?...

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by lonewolf88, Feb 20, 2016.


  1. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    I am loving this thread like chocolate syrup on hundred-dollar bills...

    Felons and weapons and freedoms! (Oh, my!)

    Freedom isn't free.

    When a monster is hatched out of a Federal prison, he'll go get a gun and do whatever he wants to do. And, somewhere down the line, he may kill an innocent person.

    And he'll do that because he wants to. Because he gets a charge out of it. Because he loves it. It won't be because he's been denied the right to ever own a firearm.

    And the innocent person that dies does so as part of the price of EVERYONE being free.

    Far better that the innocent person should blow the monster's brains out through the back of his skull, which is why EVERYONE should have the right to defend themselves with any kind of arms.

    What happens if the monster attacks the home and family of a "white-collar-crime" felon? Should he and his family have to die because he (alone) once committed a crime--perhaps thirty years ago?

    I say let the monster walk into any gun store and lay his money down. Just like any law-abiding citizen, because at that point he still is one.

    And, on the side, that way he won't have to break into a home or business to gun up (or pay a fellow criminal to do it for him) assuming he's firmly committed to never going to trial again. That's one less crime and one less victim right there. And possibly one less death.

    When the day comes that the monster decides he just has to have that sexual thrill just one more time, and he draws a gun, that's the day that he should die in the street.

    When he grabs a nine-year-old girl out of the shadows at a carnival and says "You're going with me, bitch!" that's when she should drop her cotton candy, pull out her little PrettyBabyJayne .22 Magnum Revolver, and put five in his left eye. (That's the chrome one with the unicorns engraved on the pink hand grips. Kids love it!)

    And, if she hasn't been properly trained and armed by her parents by the age of nine (God forbid!), then mommy or daddy should be standing right there, ready to do the job with something a little louder.

    With rights come responsibilities, and they must always be equal. The person who chooses to do evil must be held responsible for the evil he does--or tries to do--in full measure.

    In all this, bear in mind that over time felons will learn-by-seeing that crime is a dead-end hobby. They'll see the monsters among them getting their dirtnaps at the hands of law-abiding citizens, and the lesser monsters will be motivated to mend their ways.

    And, in time, there'll also be a lot fewer felons for this issue to arise with--because in an armed society, most violent felons won't last long enough to go to prison.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    Motomom34 likes this.
  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Either a felon has paid for his sins, or he hasn't. Which is it? If he has, he has a clean slate, if he hasn't why the heck is he out of prison at all?
    And, if he is out of prison, and up to no good, then WHY would he legally buy a gun?
     
    Bandit99 likes this.
  3. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    Let me jump in here, even though it's slightly off-thread.

    There are black powder brass cartridges out there. Mostly for revolvers and single shot rifles.
    And, since the recoil is about the same, BP should work fine in a semi-automatic pistol.

    The upside is that felons would get to fire fast too.

    The downside is that they'd have to shoot through an incredible cloud of smoke, and their weapon would get filthy dirty in a hurry. They might have to strip it and boil it after every second magazine.

    Yuck! (I don't want to experiment with that on my guns!)

    Now, if a BP load happened to be smaller than the recommended smokeless load (say for a 45ACP)--NP. The loader would just fill the case the rest of the way up with uncooked grits.

    Obviously, I haven't checked on the relative volumes, but the grits trick is an old stand-by among BP shooters.

    What a great show&tell for someone with a really junky old semi-automatic lieing around that's too ugly to pull out in public....

    (Meanwhile, back on topic...)
     
    Asia-Off-Grid, Motomom34 and kellory like this.
  4. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    EXACTLY! (Great post!)

    In our society, a felon never finishes being punished for his crime. He's never given a clean slate and a genuine chance to start over and make a better life.

    Moreover, felons aren't allowed to have guns because they MIGHT use them to commit a crime.

    Say what?

    In America, we're all supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty. But a felon is not only presumed to be guilty, he's presumed to be guilty of a crime he hasn't even committed. A crime that hasn't happened.

    Because he might commit that crime? Where is the Justice in that?

    We ALL might commit that same crime--but we aren't presumed in advance to be guilty of doing so. Where is the Equal Justice in that?

    Look at the felon that finishes his prison sentence and is released. He goes out and buys a gun--legally or otherwise. (We'll pass on the crime-of-buying issue, for the moment.)

    Why does he do that?

    For exactly the same two reasons we all do: either to break the law or to uphold it.

    The persons who presumes a felon will commit a crime and punishes him for it in advance has violated his Constitutional rights, and his legal rights as well.

    The felon that buys a gun and then breaks the law should be treated exactly like any and every other law-breaker.

    The felon that buys a gun and does not use it in a criminal manner should be treated exactly like any and every other law-abiding citizen.

    Otherwise, there just ain't no Justice.
     
    Asia-Off-Grid, Bandit99 and kellory like this.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I think you will find that the Federal Statutes will be interpreted, so as to say, use of a Brass Case, would make the Weapon a MODERN FireArm, and therefor subject to the Felon in Possesion Statute.
    I can't think of a Smokless Powder Weapon, that didn't use a Brass Case... There are two types of Gun Powder. First is Powder that is a mixture of Oxidizer & Fuel. (Nitrates & Carbon/Sulfur, or Chlorates & Carbon/Sulfur) Second is NitroCellulose based Propellants, (both Single, and Double Based)..... The basic difference between Modern and Replica/non-Federal Weapons is in the Ignition SOURCE placement. In Replica/non-Federal Weapons the Cap is placed on the Weapons Nipple, and in Modern Weapons, the Primer is inserted into the Brass Case.

    As I recall the Federal Statute, there is a cutoff Date, that determines if a Weapon, OR Replica fall into the non-Federal Weapon Classification, and I believe that Date was chosen, so as to PreDate the use of Brass Cartridges, and NOT the Propellant used in the Weapon...
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  6. Attaboy

    Attaboy Monkey

    Prisons are all overcrowded with lifers... I am 100% pro death penalty..... If there were more people that were executed for crimes that are commited, I assure you 1000x over there would be less crimes commited. The punishment never fits the crime anymore.

    When the constitution was written there were not mass murders. Mass shootings etc. Now we put these on a white glove status for fear of law suite, and or media.
    Lets take an example of the guy that shot up the theater in Aurora, CO This person shot up a theater full of innoicent victims how many 1000's of lives are forever changed as a result of his actions to do that? Things like this didn't happen when the constition was written if it did they would have been lynch mobbed. Then the case is closed. Instead this guy costs MILLIONS of tax payer dollars in the form of attorney fees, court costs, criminal protection, and of course prison. All so 2.5 years later he is found not insaine and can stand for trial? Then he is given some form of 300 consecutive life sentences? It only takes one. This person will never contribute to society, if I were judge, jury, and exicutioner. I know what I would do.

    As for the second ammendment, I dont know where I stand on a felon owning a gun. If they went through the process to register etc. It would be a far easier sale to everyone in my opinion, just based on if you look at the stats on crimes commited by registered vs non registered firearms it's staggering. So perhaps have some form of mandatory waiting period for a felon? Here in Colorado there is no waiting period you walk in pay and walk out same time with long gun or pistol. I do believe there needs to be something additional at a minimum say a 2 week waiting or "cooling off" period?...I would want to verify facts before making an answer for sure.
     
    UncleMorgan and Motomom34 like this.
  7. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @UncleMorgan @kellory
    Good posts by both of you. You're right. It is quite simple logic. I change my position on the matter. You're right "Freedom is not free" and "Either he has paid or he has not"

    @Attaboy
    "So perhaps have some form of mandatory waiting period for a felon? Here in Colorado there is no waiting period you walk in pay and walk out same time with long gun or pistol. I do believe there needs to be something additional at a minimum say a 2 week waiting or "cooling off" period?"

    I don't understand what a waiting period would accomplish? We have the same thing in Idaho: walk in, pay, they call in the NICS to check you out (criminal, mental incapable, etc.) and you walk out with it. In the age of computers - I just don't see what a waiting period would do...but maybe I am missing something. But, if I am not then waiting 2 weeks does nothing for either I can legally purchase or I cannot...and they know in minutes, so...
     
    UncleMorgan and kellory like this.
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    There is a Case at the Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, NOW, that is looking at this specific Issue of "Waiting Periods"....
    The rational for "A Waiting Period" is that if one doesn't Own a FireArm, already, then making them wait, for a Time, before they actually possess it, "Might" have some benefit, as a "Cooling Off Period".... The Question before the Court is, That If one already OWNS a FireArm, A "Cooling Off Period" makes absolutely NO SENSE, as if they wanted to buy a firearm, to use "Immediately", they would just go home, and get their ALREADY OWNED Weapon, and use it.... Under Heller & MacDonald precedents, FireArm Laws need to to be crafted, as narrowly as possible, to achieve the Intended Result, while NOT Impinging on Individual Freedoms, directly associated with the Bill of Rights, of the Constitution.
     
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  9. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Years ago, looters were shot.

    The San Antonio Flood of 1913, Johnston PA in 1977, after Katrina, Mississippi Governor Harley Barbour told people to shoot looters and there are plenty of other examples.
     
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  10. Attaboy

    Attaboy Monkey

    I agree with you, I was merely making a suggestion that may help to allow someone who has a history of crime "felon" in their past that maybe the cooling off period would help them think twice, an overview of it you don't get a felony for jay walking. Something siserious happened there, right wrong or indifferent something big happened. The chances of the person with a felony having a greater issue with temper could be higher if it was a violent crime. I guess I can't say I know allot of felons, however I never judge somone on their past. I was only spit balling ideas as a way for someone with a felony to own a gun. I am all about responsible people owning guns, I agree sometimes it happens where you were in the wrong place at the wrong time or falsey accused what ever the circumstance there should be a way for those people to own weapons legally. I would be super angry if they put that on regular people, gun shows would be a thing of the past.
     
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  11. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    @Attaboy
    People who do harm to other people need a major cooling off.
     
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    One of the best workers I ever knew, was a felon, just grateful for a job. He was out at a bar with his lady, and a drunk made a pass at her. The drunk was hit one time, but it broke his neck. He died. My worker did time for his death, and now can not vote or own a gun.
    He did his time and paid his debt, so why should he be barred for life?
     
    3M-TA3, UncleMorgan and Bandit99 like this.
  13. Attaboy

    Attaboy Monkey

    To avoid going down a hige rabbit hole on this one i agree with you tikka, at the same time thats what prison is? Maybe a case by case basis, however I could see that getting way to convaluted, im not really sure what the correct answer would be.
     
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    In NC, a felon can get his right to own a firearm restored.

    Same as a lot of people, I'm reserved about people who commit violent crimes having a gun. My wife's first husband was severely beaten for no reason; he survived but not for long.
     
    UncleMorgan likes this.
  15. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    I think prison itself is a crime against humanity.

    Not just the conditions of "modern" prisons, which are utterly barbaric, but their very existence.

    It has been shown time and time again that prisons cause mental disorders, breed insanity and produce sociopaths. And all of the negative effects are magnified in the case of teenagers.

    And to what purpose? To make a lawbreaker repent his crimes? To make him a "better person" through penitence? That's not how it works.

    In real life prisons breed criminals, and if they were bad before they went inside, they come out a thousand times worse. Prisons teach a twisted philosophy of "Might Makes Right" that just happens to be the only way for a person to survive in prison. The problem with that is that when they come out they bring that philosophy with them. By then, it's the only reality they know.

    "Life sentences" are a travesty of Justice. Their only purpose is to make a person suffer until he dies.

    A person who has earned a life sentence--usually by taking another person's life--hasn't earned forty or more years of endless suffering. He's earned a quick and reasonably humane death.

    The person who hasn't earned a death sentence also hasn't earned a prison sentence, because a prison is living death, even in the US--and in the festering third world countries it's infinitely worse.

    So what can you do with a law-breaker, short of "shortening" him, and other than imprisoning him?

    That's been debated for centuries, and nobody has a good answer.

    Except me.

    Anyone interested in seeing my good answer is invited to slip over the the Reading Room and see the short story "Judgement Day".

    But don't expect it to happen any time soon...like much of Reality, it's all fiction.
     
    Attaboy and Bandit99 like this.
  16. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Attaboy @kellory
    Ah! I see...the waiting period is a "Cooling Off Period" and that's meant to detour some angry guy from walking in, buying a firearm to perform some crime...like a passion killing. Are there stats to even support this consideration? I mean...seems a bit ridiculous to me....more like splitting hairs and playing to different groups.
     
  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    That is indeed the theory. I have no idea on the statistics.
     
  18. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Speaking of passion.. Years ago, you could walk in, buy a rifle or shotgun and walk out with it. For pistols or revolvers, you had to wait a week to pick it up. It was to prevent a crime of passion.
    We used to joke that rifle and shotgun owners lacked passion. :ROFLMAO:
     
    kellory likes this.
  19. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    My personal philosophy has long been that if a person can't be trusted with a gun to defend him/herself, they can't be trusted to live among us anyway...

    JMO/YMMV
     
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  20. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    It means to me exactly what it says...that since a well-trained militia is necessary for the security of a free state, that the right of the People to keep and bear arms...one of our unalienable human rights...shall not be infringed by government.

    I don't depend on those words or that document to protect that right...only I can protect that right...by refusing to compromise or submit when government attempts to infringe upon it.
     
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  1. toolbelt99
  2. Dunerunner
  3. Coyote Ridge
  4. HK_User
  5. Big Ron
  6. oil pan 4
  7. Yard Dart
  8. tacmotusn
  9. enloopious
  10. Yard Dart
  11. Tully Mars
  12. Yard Dart
  13. Yard Dart
  14. GOG
  15. Yard Dart
  16. bmtm09
  17. Yard Dart
  18. OldDude49
  19. marlas1too
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7