30-30 vs 30-06

The "3-9" part means 3 to 9 power (image magnification) higher number, more magnification. This indicates it is a variable power scope that you can adjust to the shot you want to take. 3 or 4 is very good for short/medium range and still offers a wide field of view. When you get up to 9 your field of view is very small.

The "40" part means a 40mm objective lens. That's a pretty large one and very much preferred by a lot of hunters. The larger the lens, the wider field of view and more light it gathers (light is crucial at twilight hours when most deer are active).

For short/med range apps I prefer a fixed power (non-adjustable) 4 power scope. Very rugged, dependable. But for flexibility and reaching out for 300 yard headshots on bad guys, you'll need the variable.

Wikipedia has decent info on scopes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescopic_sight

 

Now I know, when I go looking for one, what to ask for. I think the variable will be good.

Just wondered if there was a scope that was a dual day/night scope. Found out that there are a couple of manufacturers that have lots of work to do so I may not be able to get one and if I did, they range upwards of 7k. Funny when you want something, it's unavailable and expensive. Though when you don't, they are everywhere. Haha.

 

TailorMadeHell just a suggestion I used 3x9's for quite a bit then I took a look at the 2x7 scopes if you will be using them for woods hunting and perhaps upclose combat the 2x7 is far superior with it's larger Field of view at the lowest setting . Even the 1.75x5s are very nice scopes once you take into account that most combat weapons for a hundred years got by with open peep style sights .

While there's no doubt that the higher 9 power would be better for 250+ yard shots ask yourself how many of those have you taken in your life time compared to a 50or less yard shot in the woods trying to find your target with trees everywhere .

 

That's good info to take into consideration. I guess I'm going to be on the lookout for a nice scope that gives me medium range and a medium field of view. Seems that somewhere in the middle is good hunting ground.

 

I would second what Big001 said about low mag variable being good.

Also I think you might want to find out about scopes that allow you to use your "iron sights" as well. I've seen 'em, and it's pretty cool I think. Allows you to use iron sights for quick target acquisition at close ranges, but then be able to peer through the scope for some long range whoopin.

Whatever you decide to go with, don't skimp on the optics. They make or break the gun. I've tried targeting a deer with a cheap scope that's fogging up..... not pretty! A poor quality scope makes even the best rifle a piece of junk.

IMO, there are no better optics in the world than Leupold. http://www.leupold.com/home_flash.htm

They're not cheap, but they are top quality. Very nice tactical and hunting selection. They've even got a new red dot scope that is 0 to 3 power. Pretty cool, great for short to med range tactical but not sniping.

 

I was looking at a day/night scope and those things are expensive. What about getting a day/night scope with some kind of glow on the iron sights? Think it would be an okay set up?

 

Not real sure I understand what your asking there.

Night scopes are way expensive, and honestly I believe they aren't as good night vision goggles for what you'd be wanting. In a post shtf scenario your going to want to be able to walk around at night and patrol your property (I assume) looking for bad guys, goggles would enable you to scan the area like you normally would in daylight while a scope would be very limiting (scanning little bits at a time and missing whats happening up close). With goggles you can still use your open sighted rifle (your 30-30 lever) very effectively.

As far as hi-vis coatings for the iron sights, I like'em on pistols, but at rifle ranges at night, you won't be able to see the bad guy anyway (unless your using goggles).

I think the only advantage a true night scope has over goggles is long range sniping at night.

My plan for night time patrol is my AR15/open sights and goggles (which I still need).

 

I have never used any of the socalled Night Sights but Meprolight has them for rifles as well as pistols and for those who own and AR they have sets at Kimber for a tad over a $100 .

Meprolights web site list models for many rifles perhaps if you have a good Smith he could attatch on to another weapon and with the use of a rear Peep type sight it would do for say at least 100 yards .

This is all just speculation but it might be worth looking into .

Here is the link to Meprolights web site rifle sights .

http://www.meprolight.com/products.asp?id=2

 

For a 30-30 you might even look hard at the red dot scopes. They are not quite as precision as the traditional scope since most of the dots cover an area of 2.5-5 inches at 100 yards BUT they are VERY quick and easy to get onto target with and seem to do real well in marginal light and have unlimited eye relief which means you dont have to have your eye a certian distance from the scope to see through it like on traditional scopes. The eye relief may also be a greater concern on a lot of lever guns since if it ejects out the top, like a lot do, then the scope has to be set far enouph forward to allow the ejection of empties and may be a problem for eye relief on a lot of scopes. So inside of 100 yards, the most likely range to be doing any shooting especialy with a 30-30, you will be a lot quicker getting onto your target and its still accurate enouph for head shots on 2 leggeds and easily deer accurate or chest accurate out to the range of the cartridge. They do need batteries but its watch batteries that stay good stored for a LONG time and even the cheap ones like I have get about a 36-48 hour battery life with it left on all the time on the brightest setting.

As far as setting it up so you can use both a scope and the irons, it can be done but has its draw backs. First off it tends to be aucward to use the irons even with the look through mounts. Then there is the fact that they put the scope further above the barrel which makes it so that there is more difference between the line of sight and the path of the bullet. The line of sight meets the path of the bullet at the range you zero in at, the higher above the barrel the scope is the more difference in elevation there will be between point of aim and point of impact at any given range other than the range it is zeroed in at. It also seems to me that as you raise it up further it tends to make it a bit less rugged.

 

Now that I look at what I posted, don't even know what I was asking. Haha. My close guess was this, maybe:

Let's say that in the daytime I want to hunt a deer from far away, I'd have my scope set and ready. Then in the night, if I needed to hunt deer from a distance as well, I'd like to have my scope that would with the flip of a switch, do night vision.

I understand perimeter patrol with the goggles, though if it's a tactical hunt you'd have to either just have a 'night' rifle or switch scopes and resight your rifle. I'm trying to eliminate all the excess by trying to find one thing that can do two jobs.

Here's the link for the one I found:

http://www.atncorp.com/DayNight

I like it and think it could do well for what I have in mind. As far as the 'glow' on the iron sights go, I would want that as backup if I didn't have goggles or if they died for some reason. I'm thinking of contingency plans. The tritium seems like a good deal for low-light situations. I guess you could use the tritium for low-light and the goggles for even less light.

 

Unless you have the goggles then you wouldnt know where to point the rifle to use the night scope unless you could see without it and the scopes dont do real well for scanning around. If you have good moon light though then a good traditional scope with a large objective lense will show stuff out for a ways fairly well and with the red dots its pretty much a matter of it you can see it with the naked eye you can see it through the scope. A less expensive alternative might be to just add a tactical light or varmint hunters light to the rifle if you are wanting to be able to shoot at night. For the most part though unless you have goggles then you wont be able to find targets to try to shoot at very far away in the dark (unless they are in a lighted area) so it would most likely be a moot point.

That dose remind me of an old poachers trich though for getting deer. Deer tend to be very curious by nature. Put a tourch up in a clearing at night in an area that deer are likely to see then move back out of the light down wind from it. The deer will often times come up to investigate and walk up into the light of the tourch giveing you a clear target, or so I have been told by some 'good old boys' that claimed to have fed their families in this waywhen needed.

 

Tritium night sights are in my opinion a must need for defensive handguns. Try clearing a room in the dark, with or without a flashlight. With the flashlight in one hand using the "Harries technique" you can light up the target for acquisition, but try seeing using the sights. Almost all are around $100, and now they make them for AR's, shotguns, etc. As far as a sight that enables you to see your scope at night, I often see pics from Iraq of the U.S. military using the hand held scopes along with a mounted red dot, trijicon, EOtech, etc.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/eotech-holographic-sight-550.html#

 

Holographic Sight through Night Vision Monocular

 

If I ever need to, I'll have to try the torch trick. Sort of light shining a flashlight in the water and fish will be attracted. Good to know.

I'm still working out the ideas about night shooting and I like the input as I can see any holes in my plans. So help me if I'm off with this summation.

NV gogs are good if you need to do target acquisiton as they have a broad field of view and let you see at night.

Combination of tritium sights and flashlight work well, using the flashlight only as needed.

A night scope doesn't have a great field of view for rapid target acquisiton.

Is that about right? If so, I now have a solid plan to put into action.

 

Definitely big money. Haha. It's how I tend to do things. I look at what I will need, make a plan then attack. So I'm makin' my list and then I'll get the things on it as soon as I can. Glad that everyone is here to lend advice. Other wise I'd be as lost as a blind duck in a tornado. Haha.

 

Just opinion here on the whole night optics thing .

Cabelas had pictures in their section on these to illistrate the quality of the optical clarity of them . Gen 1 is the most economical yet the clarity is horrible to the point making a decision on to shoot someone would be pretty iffy . Once you get into the Gen II and beyond you're talking about a 2-5-$6,000+ piece of equipment .

Do you realy have deep enough pockets to get into this kind of stuff ?

Would it realy be the most effiecent way to spend money for survival ?

While these kind of "Toys" are on every survivalists "Wish list" I don't see the real value of them .

I just recently went through 2 Blackouts lasting a week+ due to storms and I think most people would be surprised at just how well they can see at night in total darkness or shall we say nothing but natural "moonlight" light .

If we are talking about a situation where any and everyone in your general vicinty is considered a threat I could see where nite sights made of tritium on an AR would do for 50 yards and beyond .

In a situation where you must make positive identification "that shadow could be your neighbor from the next farm over" at 200 yards you will need to get into the really expensive ones for them to be useful .

I think for general purpose threat detection a Gen II Monocular would be the bet for most of us and we're talking over a grand just for these units .

While this doesn't really address the issue of a night fighting system I think the simple fact that you will be able to detect and and have time to plan a stratagy for dealing with a posible threat that perhaps hasn't yet identified or even found you will be a great advantage .

There are all kinds of cool toys we would all love to have but most of us are just working "Joes" and we must balance between what is useful and practical and what would be just that a Cool toy to play with .

 

I understand perfectly. Though you can know that it won't be a 'toy'. Toys I buy are action figures or video games. When it comes down to firearms, I am all business.

Sometimes if you have to go on a hunt for certain 'deer', then you would want the best. Some deer like to hold up and take advantage of unsuspecting people. Then before you know it, it's all over. Gotta make sure there is no repeat of bad behavior. Know what I mean?

As far as cost, I agree. It is good to get as cheap as you can, though you want quality. I am setting aside bits and pieces of my kit and will have it all shortly. It's an upgrade thing. Get something that does the job and when you see something better and can afford it, replace the old with it.

 

Wow... Ya know what Tailor? Hunting is a big part of my life, and so being accustomed to following all the regulations, I had not even considered the possibility of taking a deer at night!

Got to rearrange my thinking to switch from legal to survival.

Good discussion!