401k, roth, TSP (.gov) and other retirement non tangibles

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by oil pan 4, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Non tangible retirement is a bit of a double edge sword.
    Lets just write off social security, unless you are going to start drawing with in the next 10 years. The SS day of reconciliation will be here before we know it.

    For most of these plans you get matched funds, or partial matched funds. Except for military and other .gov employees who get nothing extra for paying in.
    So right off the bat, from day 1 I doubled my money. For some people like my wife she pays in 7% of her pay and they match most of that, matching her 7% coming out of her check with 5% equal to her pay.
    That's still increasing your investment by more than 2/3 over night.
    Either way I don't know any other legal way to instantly increase a small part of my paycheck by at least 2/3 over night, every time I get paid.

    Potential pit falls are the dems are successful in "going after your 401k". This is very likely as more and more of the current generation saves nothing, social security reaches its only logical conclusion as more and more of the non savers become voting aged.
    And you know it will be one of those bills where you have to pass it to find out what's in it. I think it's only a matter of time.
    Or some other society ending event, but in-case that doesn't happen you need something to retire on.
    Also these retirement plans are a good fall back for personal shtf, which is probably going to happen to all of us at some point.
    So that brings me to my next point, early funds withdrawal, taking out a loan. Because having money can be the difference between a setback and total personal shtf.
    The best deal around is TSP, pay a loan origination fee, borrow any amount you want, only catch is it has to be paid back in 10 months or you get hit with early withdrawal penalty for the remainder you haven't paid back.
    For all the rest you pay a loan originating fee, but then you still have to pay 6% or 7% interest. Which I think is BS, it should be more like 2% or less since the amount of the loan is fully luquid asset backed.
    I have never used a tsp or 401k loan so I am not fully familiar with the process, maybe someone else who has can?(Please)

    Early withdrawal penalty is 20%.
    Now I have taken an early withdrawal, it takes about 7 business days to get the money in your account. If the government makes a 401k grab, I'm cashing out. Because the first thing the government 401k take over will do is limit your control and further restrict access to your own money.

    I think at least early on for every dollar you have in non tangibles you should be trying to have $1 in tangible liquid assets (USD) or nearly liquid assets, such as items of negotiable value, things like physical foreign currency, gold, silver coin. As your retirement grows and the market is good your retirement funds value could increase by hundreds of dollars per month, don't expect to keep up with that.
    And liquid or nearly liquid assets I'm not talking about capital, real investment and liabilities, such as your house, vehicles, guns, ammo, chainsaws, generators, food hoard, land, live stock.
    The only one of those that kind of spends like cash is live stock. You can sell off land but chances are if you need money fast you will have to sell at fire sale prices, unless you have standing offers from people or so much land you don't know what to do with it.

    What is your retirement plan?
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'm working up until noon on the day I kick the bucket.
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  3. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    That's my step dad's plan too. And my dad would have but they forced him to retire.
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  4. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    So i just did a bunch of this planning to retire early.

    SS Admin says they have enough funding for SS up until 2032 and then payments will be reduced by 25% after the year 2032.

    So if you go to SS Admin page they have lots of tools for this. its a good idea to download your 'earnings statement' and that of your spouse yearly as they have a habit of losing your income. I have had to fight mind on 2 seperate occations where it didnt match my income taxes. So if SS is part of your retirement plan these are things to consider. Also, not having all your eggs in one basket

    I have 401k and IRA's and some solid assets i control. Note the word control... I dont own everything i control which is another option for planning your retirment.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    we did our planning, 40 Years ago.... I got my new Company, in ‘76, to give me, A Pension Program, Family Health Care, and a reasonable Monthly Salary.... When we moved north, to take the Wintermans position, in ‘91, I continued to be the Comms Supervisor, during the summers, at my full Pay rate... When they liquidated their Alaska Assets, in 2003, I got sold, with the Cannery, as I was already the Winterman.... I converted my Pension Assets to a couple of New York Life Annuities... and reTIRED, from my previous positions, to just be the Winterman only, for the new owners... I got a new Health Plan, that was not as good as the earlier one, but adequate, and a 401K Plan for future reTIREDMENT, options... Now we collect our both of our SS, and AlaskaChick’s State of Alaska Pension, and my Salary as Winterman... The Annuities just sit there, accruing Interest, and the 401K builds principal, and interest, and we get by nicely on our monthly Income... We sold our house in Seattle, and invested the money into land here in bush Alaska... We have two 5 acre lots in the South Subdivision, with two cabins on our waterfront lot...
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  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I have done very well with my retirement planning and implementation and as proof - well - I am retired, quite early too.

    Personally, I never liked 401Ks or Mutual funds because they are too limited, too controlled and the payoff too low. You buy-in and then it's up to the fund manager. Bah! Bandit's rule #1: No one manages your money better than you! Now, where you can win and win big is just like OP4 said "these plans you get matched funds" and believe me if a company offers that perk then one is a complete fool not to maxed them out. I did, every chance I got. It's free money.

    But, I preferred stocks and that is where I made most of my savings. Yes, much higher risks but when you are young (or younger) that is the time to take risks, not now that I am older, so now I am out of the stock market besides they're a bunch of crooks and the game is rigged...nevertheless, it's the only game in town so you got to play to win. One usually has time or money when investing - meaning - as a youth, if the stocks sours you have the time to hold it and possibly it might gain strength in years to come or perhaps you take the loss and chalk it up for experience because time is on your side to recoup that money on another stock. When your older, one should think differently, different strategy. Since one has more days behind them than in front one uses money instead of time - meaning - safer investments that pay much lower returns put you can still make a tidy profit because you have more money to invest. Yes, it takes more money to make money but the investments are safer but returns smaller...and that's where I am now. Anyway, not saying anything that most don't know...

    Social Security is going to be here for a while - I mean - all they have to do is print more money. And, when the economy crashes, and it will someday, then it will fail also but until then we're good...I think. Who really knows? But remember, they are going to do everything they can to keep the economy going. There is nothing to gain to allow the house of cards to fall. Should we fail then China fails and so goes the rest of the world. But, yes, it will crash some day but when is the question...

    "...every dollar you have in non tangibles you should be trying to have $1 in tangible liquid assets (USD) or nearly liquid assets, such as items of negotiable value, things like physical foreign currency, gold, silver coin."
    Strange as I was thinking about this today also as it is a problem that is much more difficult to solve than it seems...at least for me. In a real economic collapse, it's really two separate problems: wealth protection and liquid negotiable assets. I think gold is the only answer for the first and the second can be a multitude of things from beans and bullets to firewood to a gallon of moonshine to old silver money - plain old barter.

    The first part of the wealth protection puzzle is where does one store their lifelong assets? In a bank? In the ground? In a bank outside the country? Personally, I have thought through all the answers and don't like any of them. And, that is only the first part of the puzzle...

    I do think one should have some ready gold and silver coins that can be used in an emergency but some can even find argument with them. How does one prove they're real? Would not ammunition or food be of more ready and usable value in an emergency?

    Anyway, it's an interesting problem(s) and I am always interested to hear what others are doing and their opinions.
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  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    My plan? A gun and a mask....it's the best option for an old, cranky, eccentric level 110 rogue. ;)
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  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I guess you could count booze as a liquid asset.
    My wife has almost 50 bottles of wine and I don' even know how many 5th and handles of top shelf wiskey, absenth and bourbon I have and some everclear. Some of it you can't even get from within the US, would have to have it bootleged in which is expensive.
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  9. When I started working for Caterpillar in !973, my bank offered a retirement savings plan through an independent company. I saved religiously almost until in hurt. Then I met my future wife. She couldn't understand saving money. She manipulated me into buying a house in town, Still I paid it off in seven years '78 to '85(thank you Jimmy Carter) Then after prolonged labor disputes and a plant shut down she moved in and I found out she really thought tobacco was the best investment. My saving for retirement didn't come to a screeching halt it got thrown into reverse. Anyway Joann passed away last summer (on my birthday) of inoperable lung cancer. SAVE UNTILL IT HURTS. Make capitol investments. Borrow from yourself and PAY it back. Use income not capitol.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Frankly, booze is very good trading material as are most vices (sex, booze, drugs) in any type of bad scenario. If things went to hell in a handbasket, I would immediately put the wife to making raspberry and blackberry vodka as trading/barter material.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I was thinking booze could also be used to kill pathogens in water without boiling it.
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  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Can it? I suppose it could but how much is necessary, what proportions? What proof/percentage does the alcohol need to be?
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Supposedly as little as 1% to 3% was enough to kill the nastiness.
    People have been doing this since the Roman times. They didn't know why mixing water and wine kept them from getting sick they just knew it did.
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  14. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Two fingers of Beam in a water glass and hold the water ought to do it. Repeat as often as necessary if unsure of the water.
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  15. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Interesting! So, all I have to do is reverse my normal process and add scotch after the water then I can simply say I am treating the water for bugs....one can never be too safe so probably about 3 fingers of scotch per drop of water should do it. :)
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  16. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    A new survey is now saying that 18 to 37 year old are the most savingest of generations to come in a long time.
    With nearly 20% having 100,000 or more saved.
    That's a big difference from the article I found that was from 4 years ago saying most of the younger people haven't saved any thing. But I think that one had split the demographics up a little differently too.

    Fidelity recommends:
    Having 1 years pay saved by age 30.
    Age 40 having 3 years pay saved
    Age 50 having 6 years pay saved
    Age 60 having 8 years pay saved
    Then at 67 hang 10 years pay saved
    So far I'm pretty well on track, but I don't see having 3 years pay saved by the time I turn 40. Not sure how to pull that off.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Looks like the savers credit is going away this year for a lot of people.
    No point in contributing more than what your employer matches.
    I think it's for familes earning under $64,000 now. For us, my wife makes that even after she missed 6 weeks of work for herinia surgery. So no more savers credit for us.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  18. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++


    Eventually they are going to figure out that just because they couldn't save any money doesn't mean other people in and around their age group didn't either.
  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Well I hate to say it but we are over due for a stock market crash.
    The price of oil is high and going higher.
    Stock market trading volume is way up lately, which means the major players are up to something.
    The market has been volatile.
    The market has been seeing all time highs pretty steady for about the last 4 or 5 years.
    The price of gold has been high for over a year now, no new news there.
    Just need something to trigger it, in 2007 it was the up coming presidential election the Republicans were all set to lose.
    It's been a good run while it lasted.

    Last crash took the stock market 5 years to recover from. Mostly because of dip stick and his band of retards.

    Mistakes I have made.
    Going to pretty much be caught with my pants down and only have a little gold.
    I don't have my cash reserves where I want them, which is not my fault.

    Where I probably haven't totally screwed the pooch.
    Means I sold my rhodium at very close to the best time.
    I have a wholly crap load of silver, I will be looking to sell that off as people start losing their shit.
    All the platinum I had forced on to me will very likely increase in value along with gold.

    An expected Rhodium, iridium, ruthenium, palladium price crash on 1 or more of those elements.
    Low stock prices when they bottom out.
    High gold, silver and platinum prices.
    People selling guns, tools, equipment to pay rent, buy food.
    A lot of interesting stuff shows up at the scrap yard.
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  20. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    As a precaution I went ahead and moved everything over to bond funds yesterday

    I'm thinking that the trigger event will be trumps trade war. Even though my bet is trump is posturing and will do the one man good cop bad cop thing again.
    But the market may have a minor freak out in that time.

    Gold hit a 6 month low as its currently being sold off in mass like every other commodity. Safe haven buying may level the price off.
    If you can find a dealer panic selling gold at around $25 over spot per bar or less and you really want some gold, go for it.
    Silver is at or near a 6 week low, same reason. But silver has been low for a while now.
    Ganado likes this.
  1. Ganado
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