1. The Topic of the Month for October is "Make this the Perfect Bugout Location". Please join the discussion in the TOTM forum.

8th grade student shot dead in Texas school

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tacmotusn, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    It's a shame we as a country have degenerated to the level that we are killing children, and children are killing each other. I was born in 1950. I am a dinosaur. I can't wrap my mind around how we got here.
    I fully understand why the LEOs would shoot this stupid kid.
    That doesn't mean I like it, or zero tolerance policies either.
    The whole thing is sad. What ever happened to negotiations or shooting to wound and disable? Just asking ...... hell, there may be no answers, just more incidents ....
    Texas police kill 8th-grader flashing pellet gun in school
    Seacowboys and GrandpaDave like this.
  2. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    Coincidence that the photo of the pellet gun did not include the tip. Was the orange cap missing or cropped from the photo

  3. jim2

    jim2 Monkey+++

    This is really bad. The parents have a dead child, and that is a tragedy. I wasn't there, but had I been, and if it were possible, I'd have tried a wounding shot. No winners here.

    tacmotusn likes this.
  4. Espada

    Espada Monkey+

    Interesting that school authorities were so ignorant as to not have recognized a pellet/BB gun... just reported a "rifle."

    Maybe they didn't get close enough to the punk to identify the object. Blame the police, who were told there was a kid with a "rifle" in the halls ? They reacted to the intel they were given. I know a little about big-city 8th-graders, especially 15-year-olds still in lower grades who think orders from a policeman, or any other duly constituted adult, like a teacher or principal, carry no weight.

    No loss to society.
  5. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

  6. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I read two articles on this and saw nothing about a rifle. Gun yes, rifle no. This "Punk" (your words) was a human. Neither news article says anything about any kind of record or of him being a discipline problem. In fact some school administrators say just the oppisite. So, lacking any other info I find your "no loss to society" statement pretty damn cold! but, what the hell, it wasn't your kid.
  7. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Bad situation and sad, Also sad for the LEO's having to cope not only Having to use deadly force. You now having the suspect a 15 year old kid and then find out the gun was a toy. That is a huge burden for a man to live with even when he does the right thing
    dystopia, Seacowboys, Dogfood and 7 others like this.
  8. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    Suicide by cop?

    Interim Brownsville Police Chief Orlando Rodriguez announced the identification at a news conference and offered this summary of the day's deadly events:
    Gonzalez picked a fight this morning with another student randomly, Rodriguez said, and afterward brandished a gun. Police quickly responded to a 911 call from the school. Two officers fired at Gonzalez and he was struck at least twice, Rodriguez said.
    The Texas Rangers will join the investigation, he said. The school will remain closed Thursday as the investigation continues.
    The 'kid' also had a knife.

    I've seen 15 y/o males that top 6 foot and 200 lbs. As my sister would say (she's now a former cop) at the end of the day - I'M the one going home....

    Who knows what the kid was thinking? Wait - he wasn't thinking... Taking ANY thing that looks like a weapon to school these days is beyond stupid. 15 Y/O or not.

    When I first read this, my first thought was "Suicide by cop"

    In other news, 43,000 people die each year in the US in auto accidents....
    Seacowboys likes this.
  9. lemon_fresh

    lemon_fresh Monkey+

    Rush to judgement much?

    According to all sources, this was played by the book.

    Does it suck that a kid died? Obviously.

    Does that mean we tar and feather the officers? Hell no.
  10. Espada

    Espada Monkey+

    A) I get my news from more than "two articles."

    B) "Gonzalez picked a fight this morning with another student randomly, Rodriguez said, and afterward brandished a gun. Police quickly responded to a 911 call from the school. Two officers fired at Gonzalez and he was struck at least twice, Rodriguez said.
    The Texas Rangers will join the investigation, he said. The school will remain closed Thursday as the investigation continues.

    The 'kid' also had a knife."

    C) I don't think you've had much exposure to public education lately; to the types of "students" teachers have to deal with nowadays.

    D) Some of my perspective is a result of my daughters having been mugged for their lunch money by "elderly" 7th grade "students," before I learned what a disgusting charade public education can be, and at great expense placed them in a private school.

    Yeah, I've gotten pretty "cold" over the years.
    Seacowboys and Alpha Dog like this.
  11. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Sounds like a punk bully, maybe a wannabe gangbanger who went too far trying to intimidate others and got his just cummuppance. You simply DO NOT hold what can only be considered a 'gun' and NOT respond to the order to drop it, without suffering the consequences. Red tip be damned - ANY gun can be given a dab of cheap red paint......

    1) Kid was stupid.
    2) Kid failed to follow orders.
    3) Good shoot by the cops.
    4) End of story.

    I do feel sorry for his family, but he paid the stupid tax.......
    Cephus, Alpha Dog and bountyhunter like this.
  12. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Well with SWAT performance like this elsewhere I guess this 15 year old kid should have been nuked for the good of society.
    6 officers, suspect wounded in Utah drug shooting - Yahoo! News
    Seems like a stupid tax was paid here as well. Obvious lessons to be learned from this foul up.
    BTW, my condolences and best wishes go out to the families of the LEOs who were shot.
    In my opinion the Middle school shooting in Brownsville texas, was suicide by cop. The only rifles at the shooting were in the hands of the responding police who took out the 15 year old with 3 shots as he refused to put down his weapon and instead chose to point it at police officers. It isn't clear if he ever fired his co2 powered pellet pistol before 3 rifle shots ended his life. One shot to the head and one shot to the chest. The other shot missed. All in all better shot placement than seems the norm. Too bad no one was inclined to simply wound the subject. Yes I know armchair hindsight is easy. Here is the summary news story. ... http://www.valleymorningstar.com/articles/shooting-97378-valley-brownsville.html
  13. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    Living where I live I no longer view 14 and 15 year olds as kids. That age group is the biggest immediate threat to my safety when walking down the street. They are far more dangerous than their older counterparts and far more trigger happy. Several months ago I was attacked from behind by a pack of 'kids' and resolved from that point forward that I would not hesitate to respond in the same manner I would an adult. That incident sealed the fate of any kid that thinks it's wise to attempt robbing me ever again.
  14. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    It's tragic and the LEO's in question probably wish it didn't happen... but given the situation and unwillingness of the student to comply with officers requests there was probably jot much else they could do... as other students were in the building at the time and the weapon looked like a live weapon......
    Cephus and Alpha Dog like this.
  15. Dogfood

    Dogfood Monkey+

    Sounds to me like the cops did it right. The kid was calling the shots on how it played out. The wound shot thing is only in the movies. When faced we someone pointing a gun at you the only thing to do is stop them and do it fast going for a wound shot or their gun hand will get you and others killed.

    In my work I face people with weapons more than anyone should have too. Once I see a weapon I no longer see a person just a threat and react accordingly.

    This was for sure a sad day for all involved. It make me wonder what was so messed up in this kids life that it ended this way. I pray I will never have to feel what his parents are feeling after this loss.
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I feel sorry for the boy's parents and family

    I feel sorry for the LEOs attending the incident and their families, I feel sorry for the students and teachers at that school, I feel sorry for the paramedics and medical personnel who attended to the boy in question, and I feel saddened at the uneccesary loss of his life....unecessary because he exercised poor decision making and poor choices that resulted in his death.

    Assuming that the circumstances unfolded as described in the journal article posted above, and unless the boy had an intellectual disabilty the magnitude of an imbecile or moron:

    1. Being in the precinct of a school, whilst in possesion of anything that resembles a weapon, be it knife, sword or firearm...He placed himself in the position of being perceived to be an imminent threat to the safety of teachers, students, and anyone else in the near vicinity. No fault attaches to anyone else for that action taken but him. This is particularly so following the mass shootings at Columbine and elsewhere where the application of deadly force (or the threat of deadly force) by a perp, will be met with corresponding force in in response to the apparent level of threat.

    2. By choosing to wield a weapon perceived as a firearm deadly to others (regardless of whether or not it was subsequently found to be nothing more harmful than an air pistol ) and by assuming a hostile posture (aiming said perceived weapon at people); By his own actions he made himself a credible, and imminent threat to anyone in the near vicinity to him.

    3. It is alleged that police ordered the suspect to place what they perceived to be a weapon on the ground. Why he failed to comply to do so is not clearly understood, but by failing to comply immediately to the LEO's orders, he placed himself in the position of appearing to be a credible and imminent threat to the attending LEO's safety.

    A coronial inquest may determine whether any feasible alternative courses of action might have been taken by the LEOs other than by using deadly force in that instance. But at the end of the day, the LEO's have a duty to protect as best they can the community against people in the process of committing acts threatening public safety, and they also have a right to defend themselves against perps who use deadly force or the threat (real or apparent) of deadly force against them.

    How different might the outcomes have been if he:

    * Didn't choose to take the air pistol to school?

    * Didn't carry the pistol openly and threaten the people at his school with imminent danger?

    * If he had have complied immediately to the LEO's commands, and by his behaviour de-escalated the situation by assuming a non aggressive submissive posture?

    Chances are.....he would still be alive, the journalists would have filed a different story, there would be no need for a police department internal affairs investigation, the attending LEO's would be less stressed and distressed and this thread would not exist.

    But no....dumb is as dumb does. I feel little sympathy for people who sprint hard to win a Darwin Award. In doing so, they harm not just themselves, but they cause harm to many other lives, Which I feel is avoidably inconsiderate of them.
    ghrit likes this.
  17. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    The problem with alot of these type of situations is the lack of parenting and the lack of a good a$$ bustin from dad. Now Im not saying thats the case but I would almost bet this kid has been in and out of trouble with no correction at home. God know I still feel for the parents because right or wrong it was still their son and now they have to live without a second chance to go a different road. Along with the thoughts of why didn't we do this when we had the chance. Then the officer even with a good shot he still knows he shot a kid with a toy gun. Which I hope to never be in this officers shoes but he made the right and only choice at the time. He did not know the gun was a toy and he had to make sure him , his fellow officers and everry person in the school made it home. This has affected alot of people other than the family. The officer his family, every kid in that school and their families.
    Cephus and Dogfood like this.
  18. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    So the question is how do you shot an eighth grader....???
    the answer is, Simple,
    You don't led them as far...

    lucky for the cops he wasn't running otherwise they might have missed...

    Okay look... I'm not that naive... I've seen some pretty bad kids in my day... kids that should be locked up rather then going to school... hard choice to make... shot or dont shot... cant say if it was me in the same boat, I would do things diffrently... and that's what's makes this whole thing so sad...
    Seacowboys and Alpha Dog like this.
  19. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    It is truly a sad social statement that our little world has come to this point. Kids don't always get the opportunity to be kids and cops don't always get the opportunity to be saviors. Some harsh realities have to be faced by all of us.
  20. Dogfood

    Dogfood Monkey+

    I don't really think much about the age thing. I pick up guys that have been in the system their whole life and would kill you and make a sandwich before you could bleed out. I'm not kidding even a little. They are hard core and have been from ages of 11 or so. Most of us can't even began to understand their life and what it's like to be them. Guys just past 20 with 10 years of criminal experience to include everything you can think of, it's not 1950 anymore and in a large part of our society being a criminal and a cold blooded as you can be is the cool in thing to do.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary