9/11 - Who believes?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bandit99, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I spent close to 40 years either in the military or working in some manner for the government so it was, and is, difficult for me to state this...but, after looking at the facts, after many, many years, I do not believe what we were told that we were attacked by terrorists.

    There. I said it. I think I knew it years ago when I saw the footage for building #7 coming down...which in itself is proof enough but when taken with all the other BS...no doubt.

    I am asking for you to prove me wrong. I am asking for you to fight my stupid paranoia with logic. With facts...

    I was in Kosovo when, supposedly, "America was attacked" heading towards my favorite expat bar...but now after years, I am convinced it was a lie, like all the rest of the wars... For the last 2 days I have tried to find the last real, honest-to-goodness-no-shit-we-have-to-fight a war and can't find it since Revolution. Frankly, WW2 is a joke so...

    I am waiting... Oh! And, if I drop off the net then probably best you don't reply...

    EDIT: And, if we cannot believe in 9/11 and we know Vietnam was a hoax (Gulf of Tonkin) so...….when has our children/people died for a justifiable cause?
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  2. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    I honestly can't say that I feel it actually happened the way we were told.
    I was talking with a long time left leaner friend a few days ago , and politics came up , and I mentioned a few things that has happened , or is happening that sounds like conspiracy theories today. The guy said , do you really think they ( .gov ) would or could do that. I mentioned some proven .gov cover ups and CIA facts , and said , knowing these , do you think it couldn't be possible ?
    So , bottom line. I'm really not sure .
    I heard a story about Flight 93 a few years ago , an Air Force radar tech was listening to a story from someone that was near the crash site. This person was saying they were at some type of business near the site , and was watching a TV. They were telling their story , this A.F. Tech guy was listening , when the person said , they were watching the TV , when the TV went silent and lost reception for a split second or so just prior to hearing the explosion. The A.F. Tech guy said that when a fighter jets missile system locks on to a target , that it will jam all radio frequencies around till it gets that lock. Now this may not be word for word , but it's as close as I can remember it. I'm sure there's a few here that might throw some insight on this , and I'd be glad to hear it. Something was also said about the debris field of that crash , about how a plane crashes, versus being hit with a missile .
    I would like to think our government wouldn't deceive us that way , but I can't say with confidence that believe they wouldn't .
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  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have NOT done any Research on BLD- 7 and its issues... That being said, I can state with 100% Certainty that the Twin Towers, BOTH North and South, were NOT brought down by Energetic Material Demolition Charges... I can rely on my OWN experience and education in Energetic Material Science, as well as reading the conclusions, of others in this field, with whom I have exchanged correspondance concerning established Facts, during Chemical and Forensic Analysis of the debri Field left after the buildings collapse. Consider first, How would the “Conspirators” who rigged the Structures with the demolition Charges know before hand, on which floors to install the Energetics, so that they would still be intact and viable after being struck by the Aircraft? Second, Having years of expierence in both the Chemisty, and Physics of Energetic Materials Demolition of structures, and designing the Initiation using DetCord, of such structure, there is NO consievable way the Instalation Crews, who would have had to spend at least a Good Week, of 24/7 work, to prep each building with the REQUIRED amount of Energetic Materials, and MILES of DetCord, running thru the Halls and overheads, without ANYONE ever noticing, their Work... No Energetic Material residue, Taggants, or byproducts. was ever found when chemical tests were conducted on the Debris as they were removed from the site. All commercial Energetic Materials are doped with Taggants, and have been for the last three Decades, yet NONE were ever found in the debris.. These are just two of the MANY inconsistancies that come up when dealing with the actual Twin Towers destruction... and do NOT get me stated on the STUPID Theroy of that Idiot BYU Professor put forth about Thermate residue supposedly found on a few of the beams in the debri pile... He needed to stick with subjects in his own PHD Field, and leave the Chemisrty and Physics to people who have spent decades in those Fields...
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @SB21 I am no longer so sure that "our government wouldn't deceive us." I want to believe but...no. They would. I mean, why were we in Vietnam? Why would Roosevelt go to the extremes to cause war with the Japanese? My entire family was destroyed in ww2. My father, highly decorate vet, was totally a whacko at its end, shot out of his boat 3 times, but that's another story but a personal and factual one.

    I believe that Vietnam showed they could and did get away with using American military for whatever agenda of the week, and, as such, 20+ years later we get a reason to screw around with the Muslim world. I say 'screw around' because we are not at war to eliminate them which normally is objective of war '= eliminate the enemy' but continue to mess around the objective.

    Something is wrong. I have come to this conclusion and while I have more reason not to like it, much more than most of you, I am 99% sure I am correct so...so tell me and, more so, prove to me I am wrong. I am waiting.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  5. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    @bandit ,,,sorry , I can't say you are wrong.
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  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @BTPost I hear you. And, I came to the same conclusion but unfortunately long after I swallowed hook, line and sinker. Frankly, anyone with half a brain, that looks at building #7, can tell, without a doubt, it is a controlled detonation. I remember when I saw the video for #7 the first time...I felt sick because I knew. Yep. I admit it. I knew.

    What is funny...is most of the facts are there and young people have died or been maimed yet here the country sits...so, maybe we don't deserve to have a free country? Maybe we really are no better than piggy banks and cannon fodder? Maybe we don't have the intellect of our forefathers? Nor the spirit?

    EDIT: And, maybe I should just get the hell out and go to Finland...
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  7. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    Flight 93 (of "Let's Roll!" fame) did not crash after the heroic passengers tried to recover control of the aircraft.

    That's a bunch of hooey.

    The tail of Flight 93 was found 6 miles from the main impact site.

    That proves the aircraft did not auger into the ground.

    The ONLY way the tail could have been found such a great distance away would have been if the aircraft exploded at altitude.

    It didn't crash. It was blown up by an onboard bomb or shot down with an air-to-air missile.

    The latter is the most likely.

    In order to take control of the populace, governments lie. In order to maintain control of the populace, governments lie. Our government is no different.

    I have often wondered if the heroic passengers of Flight 93 succeeded in retaking the aircraft from the terrorists--and got shot down anyway.

    If you ever want to get into the dark and twisted world of government lies and coverups, do some research on the explosion at Port Chicago (CA) in 1944. Supposedly, an ammunition ship exploded. In fact, the explosion was the accidental detonation of the first atomic bomb originally scheduled to be dropped on Japan.

    It had been taken to the newly refurbished (about 90% completed) harbor at Port Chicago and loaded on a boat for transport to the staging area.

    When it detonated, some ammunition ships & train cars went up with it, but they were an insignificant contribution to the the nuclear explosion. The harbor was largely destroyed.

    Ah, there is so much more about that, but each person must learn the facts for themselves.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I would believe it was a nuclear blast but the scientists working on the program were not sure that a nuclear would could be made that small and reliability detonated.
    Had it been a surface level partial detonation, or fizzled, say you only get 4kt out of a 12kt weapon like the first nk nuke tests the fallout would have been immense. I think the first nk tests were like 0.2kt.
    The only weapon that could have accidentally went off was a uranium device, but we know they only had one of those at the time and the explosion would have been a lot bigger.
    That's the cool thing about the uranium devices, they are so damn reliable.
    That's why Iran wants them, you don't need to make a detonation mechanism.
    You can put it on a scud and have it crash detonate on impact. So simple a bunch of goat fuerkers who have been inbreeding for 400 years couldn't mess it up.

    Plus there were lots or reports of radiation sickness after the weapons were dropped on japan and that was an air burst.
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  9. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+++

    I don't, as a general rule, believe in conspiracy theories, because everyone knows that the only way to keep a secret is to kill the other guy(s). Like when they buried Genghis Khan. If there are a lot of people talking about it and writing books, then nothing happened. So yes, we did land on the Moon, Oswald killed Kennedy and 9-11 was a terrorist attack. That being said, no one in my immediate family has served in the military since the Sixties...the 1860s. The last time we wore a uniform it was Confederate gray. We would fight for our land, family, rights and God but we want to do it here...not overseas.
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  10. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Interesting. Then why do aerial photos of the crash published shortly after it occurred show the plane’s empennage with the wreakage?


    For all this to be conspiracy stuff, thousands of people would all have to keep their mouths shut and information in their possession secret. No way this could all be coordinated without records of various sorts existing as well. With all the national emotion 9/11 stirred, that would simply be impossible. Now that is not to say there aren’t probably plenty of little cover-ups to hide people’s failings and incompetence prempting or responding to it but for the whole thing to be completely different than it was explained, nah.
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  11. SB21

    SB21 Monkey+++

    That had been a thought of mine as well , if it was done by the government , there would have to be plenty of people involved , and that sooner or later , one of those people would get pissed off at someone and being disgruntled , would spill the beans on the whole affair .
    Just like the saying , " 3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead " .
  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I don't know about 'Flight 93' as haven't done much reading on it however; I have read and reviewed the videos, time and time again, for the Twin Towers and Building #7. Like many others, I am convinced those were controlled detonations and if correct we all should be very afraid...but, in truth, there is very little we can do about it so, so why be afraid...?

    I don't know why we are so shocked or skeptical that our government would do something like this because - well - of course they would! There were just too many strange coincidences that occurred right at the same time like all the security cameras being offline at the Pentagon except one which somehow managed to stay on. An exercise concerning terrorists flying a plane into the Twin Towers at the very same moment it was really happened, on and on...

    As far as "thousands of people would all have to keep their mouths shut," I don't think it would need to be that many, certainly not thousands. I would guess less than 50. We must also remember there are agencies whose main trade is in dealing with secrets and many of those that work there are true blue nationalist zealots.

    But, the clincher for me is and will always be building #7...
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Ok, Consider this.... Let us “assume” that Energetic Materials were used on the towers... Please explain why the Collapse of each Tower started with the structural failure on the Exact Floors, WHERE UNcontrolable Fires were bruning, for HOURS, but those same FIRES, did not burn away the miles of DetCord that would be REQUIRED to time the Demolition.Charges on those Floors... Then consider that the Main Structural Verticle Steel Beams would all have to fail in a designed patern to accomplish such a Structural Failure, AND those beams failure would require a timed Thermite Charge to heat and weaken the steel at the failure point, and then a timed “Kick Charge” would need to be used at the failure point to seperate the softened Steel at each point. The timing on all this is critical, to the demolition of the structure. Also consider that most of these Beams were forensically tested at their Failure Point ends, and no Tagents, residual Energetic Materials, or byproducts were ever found, NOT EVEN A TRACE of such were ever found... I do not know what if any experience you have with Energetic Materials, Structural Demolition, but it is very obvious to Folks in the Field, that the Towers Failue were NOT a Controlled Stuctural Demolition... Then again, one must agree that the Majority of the Energy that was REQUIRED to bring down each Tower, was input during their Construction, in the form of lifting all the weight of the Structure, into place by Cranes, working against Gravity. The once the Initial fialure of the supporting Structure occured, on the original burning floor, the energy of the collapse of that Floor plus the energy stored in all the floors above, was released, and Pancaked all the floors below, one at a time, until they ALL hit the ground... This can be seen in the videos of the collapse in both Towers by the widows being blown outward by the Compressed Air in each floor, as that floor is Pancaked by the floors above, all the way to the ground, in sequency... Many folks took this FACT (the widows being blown outward) as proof that there was Energetics used to cause this sequential effect, but it is just the opposite Conclusion, proved, by considering ALL the FACTS, and the Physics of the Collapse itslef...

    Again, these are just a FEW of. the GLARING inconsistencies in the Controlled Demoltion Conspiricy Theories...
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  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    NIST did not test for explosive residue. That's from the actual report. I just wanted to throw that out there to start with.

    First, I would like to note the fact that your level of expertise far exceeds my own in this particular field. But, I would not like to make this about you and I, and rather about the actual studies and facts themselves if we could. Let's take a look at the material from the site and the NIST report itself, then the forensics from those who are not .Gov and may have a reason to cover up the facts.

    'Fire Did Not Bring It Down': 2-Year Study Refutes Official WTC 7 Report, Supports Controlled Demo
    And crews did have access prior to 9-11-2001, and a new manager to boot. Not many people know about the John O'Neill link.
    Watching "The Looming Tower"? Meet the Real John O’Neill.

    What about all the missing links? From Saudi passports recovered at the scene, to Israeli involvement, NORAD active training "war games" on the same day and all the confusion with air control, Testimonies of firefighters recorded shortly after the events describe sequences of explosions just before the “collapse”, well below the plane impact. Then there's Silverstein and his massive, massive payout on the insurance for the WTC property, never mind all the wealth stored at the facilities. We are to believe Building 7, which housed a hardened defense for alphabet agencies and never was hit by a plane, defied physics and the history of the world by falling to the ground in only a few seconds...from fire. And what about the missing TRILLIONS that only Rumsfeld could explain and the exact location of the Pentagon where the information was kept being taken out? And we're willing to accept the "official" narrative while condemning all the "conspiracy theories"? PLEASE.

    Perhaps you still don't agree. What about the more than 3,000 Architects and Engineers who can't agree with the NIST narrative? Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7

    9-11: Explosive Evidence / Experts Speak Out

    This isn't "conspiracy theory", but an independent scientific collaboration NOT conducted by the .GOV
    We're talking real professionals, here.
  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I'm not going to post up some "Facts" I witnessed, Instead, I will share some observances and let you decide! 1) jet fuel, it burns low and slow and makes YUGE amounts of black smoke when burning, 2) an aircraft carrying some where around 40,000 gallons of fuel hitting a object at speed is going to disperse a aweful lot of that fuel all over the place! 3) thay fuel would have been distributed over several more floors as it poured out and splashed around the impact sight as well as existing the buildings and spraying out for a considerable distance and force and with out an ignition, would have remained for a long time as it's evaporation rate is much slower then other fuels! 4) those giant engines weigh in access of 20,000 pounds each!!! They are pretty solid and even on impact, would have carried enough mass and enertia to certainly have exited the impact site! Think of each of those engines as a Freightliner semi truck crashing through at 200 miles per hour!!! Where did they end up? 5) how did all the debris from those impacts remain inside those buildings despite the speed and force of impact? 6) even burning vigorously, Jet-A isn't going to heat fatigue steel in the amount of time it took to bring those towers down, the impact would have done a majority of that structural weakening and not the burning fuel and wreckage! Yet with tower 2, the impact was at such and angle that the damage would have been spread out over several more floors and made any structural damage less to each floor then the centrally located impact of the first crash!
    6) Compressability, the impact force would have created what's called Compressability factors, very much like a bullet striking an object and forcing it's way through. The force of impact would have stretched and deformed a considerable amount of sourounding structures before the over pressure would have collapsed back on its self and then really exploded outwards radially! Finally, back the the ejecta, there would have been a bunch more on the streets then was ever found, and many on the streets would been seriously injured of killed by that, yet there wasn't, why!
    Lastly, the MSM showed images of and reported that they found the central core of one of the planes engines, only an expert would recognise that it wasn't what they claimed it was, it was in fact the engine from a F/A-18!
    I will leave this for your considerations and leave the rest unsaid!
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    All of this and more is covered in detail in the video I posted, from experts who also deal with these things. In fact, all of the scientific ideas we can come up with are covered.

    I think the problem many people have is internal. What I mean by this is, what's inside your head, your beliefs, your psychological condition and patriotism. Like those three buildings which defied physics, plenty of people simply don't know what to do once their fragile reality collapses. To accept anything besides the official narrative, we're heading down the road which leads to a true conspiracy, a well planned and coordinated attack that only very few in the world could carry out. And wouldn't you know, this is a road I am all too familiar with.
  17. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Brokor reference the 'Corbett Report' video: excellent! I really like his work, easy to follow yet lots of detail. I am going to watch one of the videos he recommends (Jeremy Rys) which referenced a new patented device to take down concrete buildings...

    EDIT: 'patented 1996 by Kumatsu, nano-thermite demolition device, can demolish a concrete structure at high efficiency while preventing secondary problems due to noise, flying chips and dust..." Apparently, thermite has been confirm in dust samples. Also, so happens that Ambassador Bremmer was on the board of director at Kumatsu...

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  18. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    How hot does jet fuel burn? How hot does structural steel have to get to collapse? Asking because I don't know. What I do know those building sure did come down nice and straight into their own foot prints. That being said I have blown a lot of shit up and BT is correct, where exactly did they hide all of that cord and explosives that would have been required to achieve those results. Just rigging the basement to blow the foundation would not have achieved the end results we all saw.
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  19. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    I believe the gov could do it without regret. They've started wars with less.

    However I do not know IF they did it or how. There's no way for me to personally vet any information I'm given. It's all mixed in with the spin and technical beyond my scope.
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  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Just a NOTE here.... NIST never was tasked to test the debris pile for Tagants, and Energetic Material Residue... That was all done at the ATF Lab in DC...
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