Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Seacowboys, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Do 90% of Mexican 'crime guns' come from U.S.?

    March 30, 9:04 AM · 15 comments

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    (AP Photo/Attorney General's Office)​

    Before I get into today's column, I'd like to make a few more observations about yesterday's.

    Hopefully, it's clear to all that the three interdiction stops referred to in the ATF "Operation Southbound Steel" intelligence advisory information request were conducted by local law enforcement (specifically by the Pearl River and Jackson County Sheriff's departments, and the Gulfport PD). So it's not like the intrepid feds with their expanded Project Gunrunner budget are doing anything other than acting as a news aggregator here.

    As one of my sources observed to me:
    This is not the result of an ongoing federal investigation, it's BATF piggybacking on local cops...what is not being seized in Miss., they aren't seizing RPGs, grenades and Class III Military ARs and AKs. The point is that the military guns aren't coming from here. They come from Venezuela, Colombia, Cuba, Israel, Brazil and China...
    That the cartels are getting military grade weapons from non-U.S. sources is borne out by journalists doing their own investigation instead of relying on government agencies for their talking points:
    Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
    Which brings us to one "reporter" who does parrot talking points, Matthew Price of BBC News, who "authoritatively" tells his readers:
    It is estimated that at least 90% of the guns used by the Mexican drug trafficking organisations have come from the US.
    Price may as well be working for the Brady Campaign, which tells those it hopes to manipulate:
    More than 90% of the guns used by the drug cartels originate from U.S. gun sellers
    And CNN spreads the meme via Brady Campaign president Paul Helmke and Brady board member and former Maryland Lieutenant Governor/US deputy attorney general Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, who tell us in no uncertain terms:
    American gun sellers supply the cartels with 95 to 100 percent of their guns, according to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
    Am I calling Price, BBC and the majority of establishment media following suit agenda-driven propagandists (or lazy incompetents) and the Bradys opportunistic liars trying to swindle us out of our rights? You tell me. Because here's what happens when we take these statements everyone assumes to be authoritative and true, and add one critical element: an oath or affirmation, with penalties for perjury.

    I'd like to share with you a bit of testimony, from the Statement of David Ogden, Deputy Attorney General, United States Department of Justice, before the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs hearing entitled “Southern Border Violence: Homeland Security Threats, Vulnerabilities, and Responsibilities”, presented March 25, 2009. Just a small bit, really, but a critical one, almost lost in the 20 pages of his statement:
    According to ATF’s Tracing Center, 90 percent of the firearms about which ATF receives information are traceable to the United States.
    Read it again, and compare it to what the antis are saying. It's very different, isn't it?

    But it does raise the interesting question about why a guy with nothing more than a handful of friendly sources and access to the Internet (that would be me) "receives information" that is, according to sworn testimony before the Senate, apparently unknown to and uninvestigated by the agency tasked with enforcing the nation's gun laws. Or by the press...

    The only explanations are ATF and their masters at DoJ are either hopelessly oblivious to what is really happening, that is, criminally negligent, or they are engaged in an outright conspiratorial fraud to deprive us of our rights.

    Those are serious charges. I submit the sworn testimony of Deputy AG Ogden makes this a matter for official inquiry. Under glaring lights.

    Why not go on the offensive instead of waiting for manipulators and deceivers to introduce further gun bans based on misrepresentations and lies? Why not demand of our representatives that they initiate hearings into what ATF actually knows about Mexican cartel guns and their suppliers? And take an extra close look at how they're deploying their manpower and resources?

    You can start by contacting your representative and senators. Copy and paste the link to this article in your email. Then here's all you need to tell them, again a copy/paste:

    Read this column. I expect you to open an official inquiry into why DoJ and ATF are misdirecting the American people on how Mexican drug cartels are supplying themselves with military grade weapons.

    Who knows what this will result in? Perhaps nothing, or perhaps it will be the first few loose pebbles that precede the avalanche. Why not do it right now? And pass this along to your friends...?

    What have you got to lose, a minute or two?
  2. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    People are so frikin stupid. They thow this garbage out and the sheep just nod thier heads and swallow it whole.
    This seems to me to be par for the course with this administration. They aren't attacking anything on thier agenda head on, they do a round-a-bout to get what they want ie: giving the banks money then taking control of them, appointing "czars" for this new dept or that one. People who don't have to be confirmed.
    This is back door justification for new "regulations" to fight border violence. It will be new "domestic security" regulations that are needed to keep the borders safe. Backdoor gun control.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Twisting statistics is a specialty of the house in the District and elsewhere. It seems very plausible that some weapons have gone south from strawman purchases, but certainly not anything heavier than a rifle. But if there were mass quantities of them, by now the MSM would have a sniff of all the batfe investigations of FFL holders that have to happen. After all, they have the serial numbers of some recovered weapons and can trace them to the sellers. Things are too quiet for that to have happened.

    Did you mail your tea bag yet? Time's awastin'.
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    The problem is, despite telling these sheeple the truth, and giving them less-biased sources to get the info from.....
    they still insist on babbling the Brady-bunch 'statistics'. It becomes mighty hard to fight that kind of mind-numbing stupidity. But we must.
    If WE don't tell the truth - NO ONE will.
  5. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Ya can't fix stupid !!!!
  6. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    that would mean 90% of gun crimes committed in Mexico are committed by mexican criminals who have broken mexican gun control laws by smuggling guns into their own country.

    Its a mexican problem, let them deal with it themselves. Perhaps they could build a wall to keep out high quality, illegal in mexico weapons, out of their country
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    A great example of gun control. All of them cartel criminals are not obeying thier countries strict gun control laws, imagine that.
  8. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

  9. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    The cartels don't want our neutered semi-auto guns - why buy that crap when they can get 'the good stuff' from their own Government? They are using full auto, grenades, rocket launchers - NOT exactly standard American gunshow fare.
  10. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    4- 100% Mexican Artillery
    The lamestream media told you:
    According to all official U.S. and Mexican sources, 90% of all guns used by Mexican drug cartels come from U.S. retail stores.

    The Uninvited Ombudsman notes however that:
    By now, most people who get their news from places other than the networks and CNN know this is false, thanks to Page Nine #62 http://www.gunlaws.com/Page9Folder/PageNine-62.htm and a FOX News expose. I had the good fortune to work with FOX's William La Jeunesse on this story, where he calls the government's figure "inaccurate and wildly overstated," summarized here by the NRA:
    "In a story entitled 'The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.,' Fox reporters William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott found that the truth does not match the rhetoric of anti-gun politicians and journalists.
    "The reality of firearms seized from Mexican drug cartels is that the 90% number far overstates the number of U.S.-origin guns in the hands of the gangs. In fact, the story reports that the number is actually closer to 17%." Many of the 30,000 guns recovered from crime scenes by the Mexicans are from Russia or Communist China, lack identifying markings (which U.S. products are required to have), and are not even submitted for tracing, helping to skew the figures.
    Ignored entirely are the billions in arms, munitions and "aid" sent to Mexico by the U.S. government itself, much of which is known to spill into the cartels' hands. Are Colt and other U.S. gun makers complicit in the war on some drugs, for selling firearms to the government, which the government gives away to Mexicans, which Mexicans pass on to the cartels, which cartels use to shoot each other and police, which Colt and others are aware of?
    Hillary, BATFE, the New York Times, the Washington Post and others who have unquestioningly promoted the false 90% figure have refused to issue a correction. This prompted NRA's ILA Director Chris Cox to observe that, "Reporter after politician after news anchor just disregards the truth on this." The Violence Policy center scoffed, calling it a "red herring."
    The one thing apparently left on the cutting room floor, which La Jeunesse and I discussed, was that a full 100% of all military ordnance used by the drug cartels comes from sources other than U.S. retail gun stores. Footage abounds of bazookas, RPGs, 40mm grenades and launchers, shoulder-fired rockets, all types of foreign-made hand grenades and similar, which is coming from somewhere... but where? That ordnance must be traceable, but its source seems to be a closely guarded secret, with its existence blotted out of reports on sourcing.
  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I was screaming at the tv when the MSM showed their tabe with "seized" weapons ( ? )
    Interesting...BUT, when did WE use RPG's?, or Something that was vaguely reminiscent of a WWI style bazooka round, and pineapple grenades?
    Now there was one thing that was a bit disconcerting there also, what "appeared" to be "40mm HE rounds" for the M-79!
    But, who knows? They were more than likely sent to their military and "re-sold " or "issued" to the cartel members!
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