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A change in carry gun?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by E.L., Apr 11, 2007.

  1. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I recently read a blog by a well respected writer. In his blog he talked about what he shoots in competition and what he carries. He went on to state that he likes to carry the DA/SA because three times before he has had to pull his carry gun in defense of his life, and twice he has had to use it to hold suspects. He talks about the loss of fine motor skill being true, as I suspect it would be in a time of extreme durress. This has me to thinking that maybe I should reassess my own carry weapon. The author just ordered one of the new Sig P220 Compact models. It has a lot of the attributes of the 1911, it is .45 caliber, thin, has a beavertail, but also had the DA first shot. The first chance I get to look at one I will. I doubt that I will change my carry gun, as I REALLY like it, and not only is a change expensive, but I also have the cost of new leather, which I do not scrimp on.

    Here is a link to the author's blog: http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/drtvarticles/86.shtml

    And here is the new Sig P220 Compact.

    Any thoughts on the matter?
    P220 compact 2 (Medium).
  2. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

  3. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Good article.

    And I don't want to derail the intent of the thread, but...

    Question EL...... as a revolver guy (me), what do you have to go through on this pistol to fire it once it's drawn? Just a safety? If no safety, then how safe is it to carry? Forgive my ignorance on autos, I've fired a couple, but never owned one. I like 1911's but I don't want to have to flick a safety off before I fire, I like that da revolver "pull the trigger and it shoots" thing.
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I'll take a whack at this, EL can sort me out if I miss an important point. DA/SA means first shot is just like a DA revolver. Second and subsequent are single action, just like a 1911. If you stop before the mag goes dry, you have to remember to decock. Safety use is by choice, but recommended, even tho' the first pull (DA) is pretty stout followed by a much lighter single action trigger. (Thus the so called crunchinticker of Jeff Cooper fame.). Note that with 1911 type, you don't need to carry cocked and locked, tho' the "big" boys do. I'll leave it to others to go thru the several conditions of carry since I'm also a revolver type, but other than cocked and locked, there is more to it than wiping off the safety.
  5. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    It has been a long time since I have fired a Sig, but I do believe they have an external safety. I have no problem with a safety(s), as long as I shoot and handle it enough like I have my 1911 so that flicking the safety off is ingrained muscle memory.

    As far as it being safe without a safety, well revolvers are safe without them, it is all in the handling and safe practice of the individual. The only external safety a Glock has is on the trigger, and many DAO pistols such as the Beretta I used to have do not have a safety. I am not sure about the Sig in question though. I expect it does have a safety.

    Finally found a pic on Sig's website. http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProduct.aspx?categoryid=50
  6. poacher

    poacher Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Nope no safeties on the sig 220 and I would imagine that the Lil sig is going to be the same. Going from front to back the first lever is the breakdown lever. pull the slide back to where the arched dent in the slide is flip the lever into a vertical position and the slide comes off. Second lever is the decocking lever. If you have the hammer all the way back and don't need to fire again you flip the decocking lever down and as it moves the hammer down the lever comes back up. Last lever on the sig is the slide lock lever.
    I have a Sig 220 and love it. The first pull being DA is a long pull but no major issues with it. As far as using the decocking lever it's just like anything else, if you train with it and use it you will do it from muscle memory. The slide lock I can honestly say I've never really used except to lock it open to show clear. If I'm loading/reloading I slingshot the slide. I don't even try to hit that little lever. The slide is easier to deal with so thats what I use. They sure as hell aren't cheap but they are fine pistols.
    Take care Be safe Poacher.
  7. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    Poacher's right, it just decocks.

    Stick with the 1911 unless you want to spend a LOT of time getting used to that DA first shot. MOST people can't keep that first shot in same group as other rounds, and first shot could be the most important one.
    Just practice putting safety back on going to low ready, safety off to put front site on BG.
    Safety on going to low ready, safety off to put front site on BG.
    Safety on going to low ready, safety off to put front site on BG.

    It requires a grip with a high right thumb, but it can become instinctive quickly.
  8. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Well E.L just described why I bought a Taurus PT940 with todays lawsuit happy world where a witness could claim I cocked the hammer or the gun had a hair trigger and in doing so somehow imply I did something wrong in a street shooting , despite my love of the 1911 I wanted something else .

    The PT 940 , 945 and several others have to ability to be carried 1) traditional DA/SA safety on 2) DA/SA safety off , and last but not least in condition one hammer cocked safety engaged just like a 1911 . If the unlikely happened and I had to fire a few rounds and then run I can safely drop the hammer and revert back to DA mode . The mechanism is designed so the hammer actually stops short of the firing pin so I don't have to worry about a supposedly locked firing pin moving enough to fire a round as the early S&W pistols did .

    E.L. take a look at these if you can as they are hundreds less than a Sig and I have perhaps 400 rounds through mine of reloads and factory ammo and it has yet to have any kind of stoppage .


    Heres a pic with a couple 45's

  9. phishi

    phishi Psy-Ops Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    EL: I can buy what the author says concerning loss of fine motor skills. I can even get behind the long trigger pull of DA under these circumstances. What I don't get is his choice of DA/SA. Why not go with DAO?

    I learned to shoot 9mm with an HK P9S. It was DA/SA with a decocker very similar to the Sig you are eyeing. What I could never get use to was the switch from DA to SA on the second shot. In a string of five rounds the second would be a flyer. I worked with that pistol for a few years, not ever day mind you, and got decent with it. In the end, when it came time for me to by an auto though I went with a Glock. It wasn't that the P9S was a bad weapon, actually its probably the most accurate auto I've fired. I just didn't feel comfortable going from DA to SA. I wanted an auto that was the same trigger pull each and every time, especially under stress.

    Why not look for something that is DAO? You get the same DA pull every time and no second round flyer. Just my thoughts...

  10. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Phishi, I have had and carried DAO pistols. I had a really nice Beretta 92 that I could shoot beautifully, that is when I had to time to slowly aim and pull the trigger. I hated the long DAO trigger pull. I am a single action guy all the way, hence my fondness of the 1911. I also haven't found a SA/DA that I really liked. In the end, I will still carry my 1911's. And sell my Glock to buy another. I just read the article and it seemed to make a lot of sense, that and I liked the looks of the P220. Not enough for me to make the switch though. Thanks for the advice all, it is good to [stirpot] every now and then, see what others think, and reassess your choices. All in all it makes me that much more convinced that I was right in the first place.
  11. phishi

    phishi Psy-Ops Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    EL: I agree! If you found something that works, stick with it. I know you are a 1911 fan and have hours of muscle memory devoted to shooting it.

    That doesn't mean that some concepts might need to be reevaluated once and again, helps to keep the brain matter functioning. What shouldn't happen is the acceptance of a potentially flawed idea......does seem to sell gun rags though! [booze]

    Guess what I'm saying is that you have put time, energy, and money into a series of pistols that work for you. So have a lot of us here. These systems shouldn't be discarded for the next hot trend to roll down the pike. Rather, the next hot trend should be evaluated to see if it can work for you! I'm glad to see that you did just that.

    I did like the authors mention of the Detonic's CombatMaster. Nice pocket sized .45 that started the trend towards micro compact 1911s. I have handled, never fired, one and feel that they are worth taking a look at if your are in the market for a small 1911. His points in the article concerning this piece echo what I have read about it. Great little concealment pieces.

  12. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have had friends that had Deltonics and really liked them. I watched a show on the Deltonics the other day on "Shooting Gallery". There is now a new company that bought the name and brought in a bunch of the former employees. They are making new Deltonics, and in full 5 inch sizes also. They are highly sought after, and have a steep price. I looked at a few of them on Gunbroker.com. I wouldn't mind finding a smaller 1911, maybe going to a commander size, but I have heard to many problems about the micro models, with exception of the Deltonics.
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