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A couple things I've considered lately...

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Hispeedal2, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I recently read an article in Backwoodsman (July/August 2011) issue that talks about hand loading the .410 with zero tools (well, actually just a few hand made tools). It was a really good article. Definitely check it out if you own one. I like the .410, but the price of ammo is kind of ridiculous compared to 12 gauge. I have one that I kind of inherited by default. I have no experience with a .410 (I'm a 12 gauger). With my girls getting to the age of being able to hunt, the .410 has perked my interest a bit.

    Anyways, that brings me around to.....

    Anyone have any experience with the Taurus Judge? Previously, I've had no interest in them at all. Recently, I saw one with a longer barrel. That seemed a bit more interesting to me. Given that .410 and .45LC is already in my supply, the Judge wouldn't be an added burden. What can one do with a Judge aside from blowing big holes in two legged predators from a few feet away? Is the Judge gimmick or multi-purpose?
    Reference: Long Barreled Beast

    Another one that I will throw out there....

    My Father-in-law has a NAA .22 revolver he carries religiously. I recently bought a pocket revolver, but the small size of the NAA seems interesting from a meat-potting perspective, especially the longer barreled ones. I have a nice S&W Model 63, but something kind of small that I wouldn't mind leaving in the car is appealing. If they can't hack it in the accuracy department, a used Ruger Mk II, III, or other semi-auto may be the way to go, but something is appealing about the size and weight of these little guys. Thoughts?
    Reference: Black Widow
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

  3. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    OMG!!! I just recently found that magazine Backwoodsman. Wondered if anyone else here might be a reader as well!! An it was that same issue that I found first.
  4. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    Stang...I've been reading it for about 5 years now, great magazine full of very useful information,I'm hooked on it about as bad as I'm hooked on the Monkey Forum...
    Falcon15 likes this.
  5. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Where do you find it at ? I have never herd of it.
  6. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    Some sporting goods stores in my area have it, you can also find it at your local wally world in the magazine aisle...they sell them at my local WM...comes out every two months.if you can't find one,PM me and I'll get you an address for you to order a subscription...
  7. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Its a great magazine. I have every issue for about the last few years. I've read it a bit longer than that, but only recently started saving them. You can get "The Best Ofs" to kind of catch up. They have a lot of good to know timeless stuff in them. I find it at Krogers, Hastings, and Borders.

    Here you go:
    Backwoodsman Magazine
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  8. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Got it bookmarked...Tks...
  9. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    I have that Long Barreled Beast in blue steel rather than stainless and I like it.Don't know much about the practicality,as I've only shot targets so far,mostly birdshot.I have some buckshot shells that I want to try in it,and somebody has made shells with 3 flat disks backed up with bb shot.I want to try them,too.At an optimum distance,I think it would be a small game getter with the .410 shell.Taurus has made it now with a 3" chamber .410 and have also chambered it for 28 ga.I'd like to try one of those babies..
  10. Huntinbull

    Huntinbull Monkey+

    I would think that shooting shot out of it would leave a pattern like a donut at any distance. The rifling would spin the shotcup/wad on exit, spreading the shot in a circular pattern. I have shot my uncles 45 long colt single shot rifle (think it was called a snake charmer) with 410 shot and at 10 yards we get a 25-30 inch ring of shot with a 12-18 inch empty hole in the center. If the barrel is long enough, it could make a big game gun with the 45lc loads.
  11. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

  12. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    I'll have to do my own testing.I have trouble with his statement that 4 1/2" is "not nearly enough" penetration.How much flesh and bone is in front of a heart? How thick is skull bone?I personally think 3 000 buckshot will pretty much dissuade any attacker from continuing his actions..
  13. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    You should enjoy researching this. 4.5 inches of penetration is not nearly enough (!).

    As for dissuading an attacker . . . following your logic (and I'm not knocking it or you - just pointing out the logical extension of it) a well placed golf ball sized rock thrown by hand would too.

    I dunno about you, but i'm not giving up my .45ACP (loaded with 230gr bonded hollow points) for a pocket full of rocks.[dunno]

    In closing, I would like to propose that in the event of an armed encounter your best bet for survival is to "stack the deck" as far in your favor as you possibly can. A "50/50 gun fight", a "should be adequate", "can do the job with flawless or nearly flawless shot placement" are all things to be avoided. Avoided like the plague. [beer]
    E.L. likes this.
  14. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    Each to his own...if you choose that as your personal defense gun, by all means do so. Wasn't trying to be argumentative; I just wanted to make sure all the information available was on the table.

    My personal opinion, which I did not state earlier because it wasn't useful to the post is that as far as hunting, there are better alternatives (i.e., .22lr) and as far as self-defense, there are better alternatives.

    The Judge and S&W's Governor's success are good examples of slick marketing over weapons that are truly useful.

    You probably have your opinion too...but, in matter of opinion, there is no argument--each are relevant to the owner. ....kind of like when rock stars endorse politicians...why is their opinion any better than yours? seesaw
  15. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    If this was my carry gun,it'd be loaded with .45 LC,not shot of any description.I just think the guy that made the video went into it with a prejudice against .410.I haven't had any trouble finding different shot loads for the judge,I just have trouble with time to shoot it.And after seeing what birdshot does to paper and cans,I don't wanna get hit with it,even at a distance...that stuff hurts,nevermind how I know.:)
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Penetration is a good point in ballistics, but you completely missed energy transfer.
    .45 ACP has about 450 ft/lbs.
    .410 slugs have closer to 800 ft/lbs
    Source: The 410 slug

    I'd say that drops the judge somewhere between a pistol and rifle.... making it all the more interesting IMO.

    I hear what you guys are saying on the rifling and shot. Great for close defense, but not so great for anything else. I was hoping that the longer barreled one *might* alleviate some of that. Anyone have any experience at some yardage with buckshot and birdshot? Say 25 yards (acceptable small game range with a .410 pistol... I think?).

    One thing I haven't thought through is the legalities of hunting with it. Small game typically is limited at .22RF. The Judge is technically a .45 handgun. That would make it illegal, even with shot shells only. Now, I'm losing interest. ;)

    Anyone have anything on the the little NAA revolvers?
    They don't seem accurate for anything other than last resort self defense:
    ‪NAA Mini Revolver Accuracy Test‬‏ - YouTube
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I'm going to take a SWAG here, and say that the longer barrel would spin up the wad and therefore spread the shot out further. With slugs, the accuracy should be better with the longer barrel. Now, one thing to check carefully on my silly guess is the fit of the 410 wad in a 45LC barrel. If it's in contact with the rifling, my guess is a LOT better than if 'tain't.
  18. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have one of the little NAA revolvers, it's tiny, built like a Swiss watch, and follow up shots are difficult at best. But it's cute and everybody loves it. I carried it way back when before I bought my Kel-Tecs. It's not expensive, and a great conversation starter.
    Mine's the .22 mag with the tiny grip and short barrel. But for self defense I would strongly recommend a Kel-Tec or Ruger, they aren't much bigger and semi-auto beats the hell out of cocking single action after each shot.
    Cephus likes this.
  19. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    I have one in my security supply bag and it is a definite last resort 7 yard to in your face head shot gun. The guy in the video does not shoot it the same way I do. I hold it with both hands, put my right thumb to the left of the trigger on the top of the grip to hold it down when firing and cock the hammer with my left thumb. I can fire it much faster that way.
  20. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    My father killed himself with the 22 magnum version of the NAA.I picked it up from the police station and shot it a few times.It would be better than no gun at all,but I think more of a backup than a main carry.
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