A discussion on wealth preservation: gold, foreign currency...

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by Bandit99, Jun 30, 2016.

  1. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Lots of good opinions and thoughts here...

    It seems that the safest method is to bury small amounts of gold in multiple locations...which may not be logical but safest to a point. My only fear of this is the companies where I purchased has records showing my purchases of gold and it would be very possible, very easy and most likely that in dire straits the USA government would demand and receive those records when they confiscate all gold for the 'good of the country.' As @duane pointed out the ruse they pulled in 1933.

    I agree 100% with @Ganado that when the dollar falls there will be a HUGE movement to get rid of it as the international currency and move to something else and I doubt the USA will have the muscle to stop it. The USA is hated by everyone - even our friends - and as soon as there is a hole in our armor they will drive a sword through it. I feel this in my bones because moving to a different currency will a tremendous blow to the USA. Huge!

    I believe that other currencies will do much better when the dollar slides, especially ones that are not so tied to USA economy. All currencies will feel the effect but some will do better than others.

    So, from what I have heard, I would think that the best solution (noticed I said best and not 'the solution' because there truly isn't one) is the following:
    1. Pay off your house and land if you haven't already done so. Purchase more land if possible.

    2. Purchase gold and bury small amounts in numerous locations understanding that it's very possible the Feds will come knocking on your door wanting it. These assets will be used during the current hard times.

    3. Move the majority of one's assets into a bank overseas into their currency (now while the dollar is strong) and gold (while it is still relatively inexpensive - compared to what it will become). These assets will be used in future times. I grant you that it's a risk but keeping it here I would think is a bigger one.
    (I keep coming back to Switzerland as they are not in the EU (even though they have trade agreements if I understand it correctly), survived numerous wars, never been invaded successfully and even held the dead Holocaust victims money decades later - meaning - it didn't just disappear. The downside is currently they are cooperating with USA but one can hope that when the USA loses its economic clout and super-power status that will change.)
    Using a bank that doesn't cooperate with the USA yet is reliable and has a stable currency appears not to exist.

    All-in-all there are no really good solutions in a world where electrons track everything one does in real time...
    I hate it when I have so limited options but truly seems like we're screwed...
  2. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    My thinking on the "I bought it on my credit card and they know I have it" issue is take out a classified ad or Craiglist ad offering it for sale..."must sell, selling at acquisition cost"...make up some bills of sale to Jim Jones, Sammy Smith, etc., and tell anyone that contacts you that it has already been sold. If the IRS comes snooping, you can show them the bills of sale indicating that the items were sold for their basis cost, therefore no profit, no taxes due.
    Theoretically, that is. ;)

    ETA: Thinking more on this, if you paid interest one the CC when you bought the PMs, you may be able to deduct that as a loss...hmmm
    Motomom34 and AD1 like this.
  3. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @techsar So, to be clear, you're saying that I could purchase gold, have it delivered to me then resell it to you and I don't have to show anything when Mr. Federal Agent comes a knocking except some Bill of Sale? I honestly don't know if there is any requirement to track/report the sell of gold...but I would think not given we can own it. Do I got the gist of it? Going to Google now...

    EDIT: There appears not to be...Hmmmm
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  4. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Find a local coin or even a gunnshow where there are both dealers and private sellers/buyers and buy tickets. Save those tickets and claim you sold them there (at a loss of course )cuz you were short of cash and needed money.
    Gator 45/70, Motomom34 and oldawg like this.
  5. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Nope...no requirement to track it...or provide a bill of sale. That was just to show "proof" of sale.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  6. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    This is just me talking, but if the U.S. economy and monetary system takes a dump, the worlds economy and other countries monetary systems will also take a dump. Following that, Gold and Silver will fall to an acceptable exchange level that will probably be determined locally. Wealth will be in your ability to provide food, shelter and security for yourself and family. Barter for services, food and commodities will be the currency of the day as you cannot eat Gold, Silver or foreign currency.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    Gator 45/70, Oltymer and oldawg like this.
  7. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Why would you even be willing to offer proof saying that you sold your gold, therefor proving that you had gold.
    Why not just say you don't have any, blend in and be like the rest of the 98% of people who really never owned any gold coin or bullion at all?
  8. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Dunerunner That certainly is true to an extent but using our only yardstick, History, shows us that while, food, water, shelter and security are the major concerns, precious metals have always been tradable, desirable and sought after whenever there was bad times throughout modern mankind's history and more so when the initial crisis stabilized. My belief is the four named essentials necessary for life would be for living in the current crisis and the following years before stabilization of some sort while Gold would be for the future - wealth preservation - as it has many, many advantages over other goods.
  9. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Because any company you purchase your bars, rounds, or coins have the transaction in their records. Now, I looked at a few sites and they swear that they do not report those sells and that is good and right BUT they are still there in the files and all it would take is a quick law to get them turned over (think 1933 when government order all gold turned in). And, if the USA government went broke - which of course that is exactly what we are talking about - and the dollar is hitting bottom they (our exalted elites) within government will do ANYTHING to stop the slide to include snatching up privately held gold stores because it is hard currency that is accepted world wide...actually I think they will do more than that but that is certain one of the things they will do. And, I believe they would do it.
  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    When the dollar is dumped by everyone gold and silver will skyrocket in price.
    Gold will not be a medium for trade it will pretty much only be used for transfer of wealth, to transfer land and other large purchaces.
    Using gold for everyday purchase will just signal to everyone you have a lot wealth.
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    LOL you bought gold from a company that keeps records.
    First mistake.
  12. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Just obtain SDR (Special Drawing Rights) from the IMF and you'll be good to go anywhere in the world.
    You'll be able to set up your own country during the financial collapse.
    Well, just so long as it's not a big ol' X-class solar flare event that kicks it off.
  13. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Agreed! But that all depends on how deep the rabbit hole goes. It could be that 1 ounce of gold might get you ten rounds of .22LR, or two cans of peaches. It will be, at that point your decision to either keep the gold or to trade it for something more tangible.

    Now if there is a societal structure remaining, there may be a banking institution that would exchange your gold and silver for some other kind of currency. Think back to the 1850's in the West. People exchanged labor, livestock, produce, or some craft product for other goods. It was not uncommon for doctors to be paid with chickens, pigs, or a steer. Trappers traded furs, at rendezvous, for gold or currency that they then used to buy the trade goods. ball and powder and subsistence articles they would need over winter. Only in large towns where there was some conglomeration of civil people did you find currency, gold and silver traded for goods. But, you are right as every good trapper kept several rounds of silver in their possession, just in case they had to visit a town.

    Metals may have their value, but what that might be is any bodies guess.
  14. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    That is quite sneaky. I like it.

    2008 we saw things start to collapse. Now it is eight years later and we will be getting a new president. I do believe things will be worse then what we saw in '08. The dollar can only be propped up so much and I do believe we are at the limit. I have read a lot of article that say 2016-17 will be the year reality hits.

    I do not believe the whole worlds economy will tank if we do. Like @Ganado said BRICS, and Singapore and some of the asian banks are rock solid. Those countries will emerge as leaders.
    Ganado and Dunerunner like this.
  15. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Any oil in Singapore, any means of export, any market to export to?

    China will have a hard time exporting products that no one has money to buy and I believe the domino effect will take most every industrial nation back to 1920.

    It all depends on how the collapse is manipulated by the banking industry and which winners and losers are chosen.
  16. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I don't know. But the Russians in Ukraine and Syria, I believe have much to do with travel/exporting route then freedom. I could be wrong but Russia secured an important port from Ukraine. It will keep them going and without road blocks. It also gave their buddy China a sweet deal in crops and importing crops.
  17. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'll tell you one thing. It is certain that if the paper economy collapses .. Nation states won't be accepting IOUs in the form of paper currency that can be printed adnauseum. They will want Oil, Gold, Water, land, heck maybe diamonds. Who knows but it sure as hell won't be paper currency.

    Look at the hyper inflation in Venezuela, you think an exporter in their right mind is going to take their paper? Nope .. dollars please (or euros).

    How about Zimbabwe. Trillion dollar notes? Nice novelty on Ebay but you can't buy a container of wheat with a train load of currency .. no one wants it.

    Until the end of dollar hegemony (preferred international exchange medium), I'm going long on the FRN.
    Then, when the RMB takes over .. I'll add that to my meager basket.

    There are risks to holding your money here, holding your money over there, converting it to gold or silver or bitcoin. Each will have to determine how much risk is acceptable to themselves.

    There really isn't a magic one size fits all solution. It's how much risk can you tolerate and what are your long term plans.
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Singapore has little in the way of resources of its own, definitely no petro products. It does have a huge commercial shipping fleet. It is one of the largest, if not THE largest transhipment point in the world. It is also a banking powerhouse. If it happens in SEA, Singapore has an oar in the water. How they will hold up if both the US and China collapse, I don't know, but they are creative.
  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The first thing to pop up after people have just barely enough food, water and shelter to stay alive will be banks promising to help people afford more food, water and shelter. And the process starts all over again.
    nathan likes this.
  20. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    My point is that if you are not partnered with a country that is also economically strong or have a large domestic consumer base and you have no domestic resources or a means of importing raw materials (if you can afford it) and exporting a finished product to a nation that can purchase that product, you're going to fail economically.

    The Great Depression in America is a perfect example. Venezuela is another.
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