A judge with heart...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chelloveck, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    A judge with heart...

  2. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Whew! Powerful...
    GrayGhost and chelloveck like this.
  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The law was served as it had to be, but it was served with compassion, personally delivered. That's what makes this story so particularly compelling and inspiring.
    GrayGhost likes this.
  4. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    [sarc1][sarc1]Aw chelloveck you have a heart after all.
  5. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Who is suggesting that I don't have one?? Empathy is just as important as having a brain, and desirably both should be used liberally. ;)
    GrayGhost and oldawg like this.
  6. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    :whistle: empathy you have.............well one outta two ain't that bad I guess..........Sorry my friend you HAD to know some republican was gonna poke you with a stick over that one. :)
    chelloveck likes this.
  7. runswithdogs

    runswithdogs Monkey+++

    So nice to see a story like this, ( puts away death star plans for another day....)
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    Good find, Chell...thanks for sharing
    chelloveck likes this.
  9. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    One whom is repentive to his failure is one thing ,
    mercy is not a debt .
    To believe I deserve mercy or a right to mercy is arrogance,
    and to get mercy supporting arrogance is supporting the wrong to begin with.
    And this is how the criminals in our liberal justice system flourish .
    This judge did not commute the sentence ,he spent time with a fellow soldier, understanding his situation .
    There are hosts of people that go to prisons to share the love of God to them and often see real change in their lives .
    No one pays them to do this ,it is done because so many are with out hope and recognize their need for God's intervention . And Jesus instructs us to go to the prisons and reach out to these as well as the rest of the world.
    OldDude49 likes this.
  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    An interesting take on the 'Great Commission' allegedly issued by a character in a fan fiction epic saga.

    Your remark, in the context of the OP anecdote, is a straw man argument. Judge Olivera, did not show mercy in Serna's sentencing; had he done so, he would have commuted the sentence entirely, or applied a lesser penalty. Olivera handed down a sentence, and that sentence was executed. What Olivera demonstrated by his actions when Serna's incarceration commenced was compassion, not mercy. Humane compassion is being sensitive to the other person's distress and discomfort and acting in ways to alleviate it. To be merciful is to acknowledge the hurt caused by the person who has caused harm, but to offer forgiveness to the instigator of that harm, and to perhaps mitigate, or withhold retributive punishment.

    Mercy is not a debt, but that is not what I, or the story was arguing.

    Nobody in this thread is making that argument....another straw man.

    Mercy is not a right, but it can be earned. A Judge may mitigate part of a sentence, if the convicted person satisfies some, or all of the criteria for sentence reduction: by showing genuine contrition, voluntary acts to compensate for, or remediate the harm done to the victim, etc etc etc. These are but some of a number of considerations in which a Judge may exercise discretion in offering a convicted prisoner 'mercy'.

    Again, not a point I was making....straw man again.

    Judge Olivera was not supporting Serna's wrong by showing Serna compassion. For some people, the focus of correctional institutions is on retribution and punishment, rather than rehabilitation and redemption...I would humbly suggest that Judge Olivera's human compassion did have a direct rehabilitative and redemptive affect on changing Serna. The punishment was simply confinement; the punishment was not the claustrophobic distress of an ex soldier manifesting PTSD. To Olivera's credit, He recognised the foreseeable consequences to Serna of confining him, and exercised a commendable duty of care in mitigating that.....personally. Another judge might not have bothered, and it is probable that Serna's life might have had very different outcomes as a result.

    I like your broad generalisation[sarc1]....which point you are making is not entirely clear. Are you suggesting that Judicial officers should not show compassion or act upon it, on a case by case basis? Are you suggesting that Judicial officers should be merciless in their sentencing? You have not clearly explained in which way criminals flourish in your 'liberal' justice system, and in what way that is necessarily a bad thing. You have not demonstrated that a judge showing compassion in a single instance exemplifies the flourishing of criminals in the whole justice system.

    As it happens, this convicted criminal, did flourish, as a consequence of Judge Olivera's compassion: You might have discovered that if you had bothered to tease out the whole of Serna's story. I also have to wonder whether you were making a curmudgeonly swipe at Olivera as being a part of the 'liberal' justice system?

    Factually correct. (y) Was that a bad thing?

    Ahem....there are hosts of theists who go to prisons to proselytise to a largely captive audience, (so to speak)...who not only include Christians, but also Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Pagans and Sikhs among other religious minorities...I'm disappointed that you haven't given non-Christians an ecumenical shout out for the good works that they also do for their gods.

    As a bald assertion, without also providing any evidence whatsoever, that is a very impressive claim....[sarc1]

    What does 'real change' mean; it is a very vague and ill defined expression...if the claimed relationship to 'real change' happening, is simply that it occurred after the the convicts had 'the love of god' shared with them....that would suffer from the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy, (because of this, then that) Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - RationalWiki . It is also possible that other factors (such as counselling, psychiatric treatment, education / training, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, and peer support, in-prison work opportunities; health and fitness programmes; and sport etc, etc, etc) other than being proselytised, had an actual influence on 'real change'. Prisoners, seem not to be given credit for their own efforts at reducing their chances of recidivism and improving their prospects of a successful reintegration as a law abiding citizen....but no...Jesus must be the explanation.

    Well, not all of those who share the 'love of god' with convicts, are unpaid volunteers...there are professional corrections chaplains, and some of the visitors who visit to share the 'love of god' would be ministers of religion, pastors, imams,priests, rabbis and lay preachers who receive partial or full remuneration from their respective mosque, synagogue, temple, church or mission society, for the spiritual ministering they do with corrections inmates.

    Even if visiting Christian proselytisers don't receive direct financial remuneration, it can't be said that they are necessarily doing it entirely out of altruism, and for no reward. There are intrinsic rewards, and extrinsic rewards for their 'work': Perhaps they are rewarded by the esteem of their fellow Christian community, perhaps they are anxious to count coup for the number of souls they have saved for Christ's sake; it may be for the accrual of cosmic karma credits, or it may be a necessary means of climbing the greasy pole of church promotion...there may be as many self serving reasons for 'spreading the word' as 'altruistic' ones.

    Probably not so much as without any hope, but without the kind of liberty that other citizens not in incarceration would usually enjoy, and perhaps take for granted. There are many reasons why prison inmates may welcome time with a god botherer, other than any overwhelming need for god's intervention, or because they are without hope....for some, it is with the hope that the probation and parole board will consider their case for probation or parole more leniently and more positively with a public profession of a belief in god, and with an outward appearance of conformity to theistic ritual and religious observance, without their sham and fakery being detected. They may even pray genuinely for that.

    Perhaps you may wish to re-read your bible. Jesus does not specifically mention prisons or corrective institutions as part of his 'Great Commission'. Although there are a number of New Testament passages that refer directly. or indirectly to the 'Great Commission', there is scholarly disagreement concerning the interpretation of those passages, and as to whether it simply applied to his sect follower contemporaries at that time, or whether it applied to all Christians for all times. The kind of 21st century correctional institutions where incarcerations could last for many decades, to life without release, would have been anachronism in the early years of the common era. Prisons certainly existed at that time, but usually as temporary holding places for prisoners awaiting trial, or execution, or some other lesser corporal punishment prior to release, or being sold off as slaves. Lifers would have been extremely rare.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  11. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I have been speaking from personal experience with interaction with inmates, not hearsay.
    and I don't proselytize, no one is compelled to attend my church I merely offer the opportunity for some one to receive something from God .
    On top of that Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to Teach in His place , I dare not supplant my self as one's teacher.
    Scriptures provide a history and a primer to understanding basics but not a substitute of the relationship God intends.
    If a man is honestly after seeking God , God knows the heart and how to reach him, and move in him.
    oldman11 likes this.
  12. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    I think chelloveck will make a good preacher one of these days.
  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I'm not sure what you mean by preacher....but I doubt that I'll be wearing a cassock and surplice any time soon...I'd be happy just being an advocate for secularism, and religion / state separation.


    Some walls ARE worth building....and maintaining in good repair! ;)
    Grandpa Patch likes this.
  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Before the thread devolves into a Christians missioning for Jesus in correctional institutions infomercial, I thought you might like to check out how Joseph Serna is travelling after his night in a cell with Justice Olivera in April 2016.

    Joseph Serna is doing work with an organisation called Mission6Zero

    Serna's mission6zero member bio is as follows:

    There's much to be said for offering human compassion...it has the potential for changing lives. It would seem that Serna is paying it forward.(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
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