A little about my take on religion

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by GhostX, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    I was actually a really religious kid. I was raised Christian and was fascinated with spirituality at a very young age. I've been going through a lot of my old drawings and I've found all these pictures of angels and manger scenes. Lol I can even recall gutting a roll at lunch time and sculpting the dough I gutted into a manger scene. I took my faith very seriously to the point where I never swore or especially uttered the the word "hell" until I was about 14 years old. I used to attend youth groups around that time. There was always a band playing Christian rock songs and video games after the services and it was a fun time. But one service in particular stood out to me.

    We were asked to come forward to ask questions about life that we don't understand and they were willing to demonstrate how those answers can be found in the bible. At the time, I hadn't seen my father for 10 years and I had hoped they could give me some kind of answer as to why. I asked and they tried but they had no answers for me and not enough time to spend on me to find it so they moved on to the next kid. I think it's about at that point that I started to question my religion.

    I identify as an agnostic because I don't think any religion has the concept of God correct. I'm atheist towards Christianity, I'm atheist towards Satanism, I'm atheist towards Judaism, I'm atheist towards Buddhism (although it has some great concepts) and I am atheist towards the Muslim religion... but I am still agnostic to the possibility of a God. I believe in what can be experienced and what can be weighed and measured and what can be proven as fact. If God ever happens to be at the end of any equation known to man then I will be happy to accept and experience this aspect of reality in its rightful place. But there are no shortcuts, the concept of "God" has to earn it's place into the reality I know with my own mind, I will no longer accept an assumption of proof based on what a book written by men says.

    The part that troubles me the most about the concept of "God" is at what point in human development it was inspired. It has become obvious that religion was used to inspire others to fight wars and maintain prejudices towards those who do not believe the same way. It can be used as a tool to oppress the masses and control people through manipulation of emotion and declare moral superiority over others. It was the most dogmatic and controlling force on the planet at one time but it has faded (only to be replaced by even more dominating vices).

    I still respect those who choose to believe because I realise that some people need that moral code to help guide their lives. For some people it seems to be the only thing holding them back from their otherwise violent impulses... but it only seems to be a kind of "morality under threat of pain" mentality with the idea of hell and torture as deterrent. Some people establish a routine based around their religion that seems to establish a sense of order and organization. It helps make their modern capitalist world turn more easily and they give all the credit of their success and orderlyness to their religion. Technically it just makes them a more ignorant and docile slave to the system but you know, whatever about all that Oompaloompa poop for now. Also the idea of a cleansing of one's conscious is appealing to those who have to do things they are not proud of just to get by.

    So what's my take on religion? I think it is important to have a personal philosophy and moral code to live by but you don't need to join someone else's little club in order to be a good person. You can take what you consider to be the best parts of any religion and compile it all to make your own. You can set rules for what you will or will not do and carefully define why you will or will not do something if only for the sake of a more harmonious existence on this earth. You can set rules like never owning your own pack of cigarettes as part of your code for the sake of maintaining your health.

    I believe that religion and philosophy should be a personal experience based on the way the world hits a man. It's a code that helps a human being survive in his environment to the best of his abilities and can help inspire a more harmonious existence in a social environment. Honor seems to be something that is very under rated in society today but maintaining honor for one's self can greatly reflect the positivity in a person's character and make a person unstoppable in accomplishing their goals.
    Bandit99, Dunerunner and chelloveck like this.
  2. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    I have heard this before and heard it from many people... it is not a NEW thing...

    My answer would be long winded and get into science n what not before I got to the actual point...

    for me their is a God and it is the God many call the God of David etc... I have what for me is convincing evidence...

    Oh and that God does not want nor need puppets that are under control...

    but prefers and wants individuals that CHOOSE to be with... of their own accord...

    perhaps this is one of the easier ways to express things?

    "The five scariest words in the Bible are, '...and God gave them over'." ?
    Dunerunner likes this.
  3. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    I just don't like to assume there is a God before it is proven that there is. I will entertain the idea but I will take it all with a grain of salt and think of people's proclamations more as theories. If I can earn "God" into my understanding then I will accept him... but the reality I know has no place for him this far.

    I've weighed what some consider divine influence but none of it is without questionable doubt. I can't bring myself to label something as "God" without that label being inspired through the correct process. "God" cannot be an assumption, "God" cannot be a replacement for "I don't know", "God" cannot be the description of a feeling that is not fully understood. "God" needs to be something that was touched by him or clues left to trace back to him. He cannot come first or second or at any other place in the equation than the end. I simply cannot believe in it otherwise because I feel like I'm playing into someone else's delusion.
    Dunerunner and chelloveck like this.
  4. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    We are free to chose... that is the key...

    that is our right... so... believe as you will... I just added a bit of input from my view...

    seems to me... by putting up this post... you are perhaps seeking something?
    Dunerunner and techsar like this.
  5. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Religion is a personal thing in the end and you either believe or you don't. There is no absolute proof that God exists or doesn't exist. If he does exist, he gave us the free will to make up our own minds, and if he doesn't exist, the end effect is the same. I myself believe that there is a God, but don't trust many of those who proclaim that they know what he wishes us to do and that perversion of God has created many of the world's problems. I find my belief a comfort and a good path to follow thru this life. If he does exist, the rewards are more than I can imagine, if he doesn't, I have lost nothing. I do not look for him to solve all my problems, and do not trust the words of men who wish to use his name to solve their problems. If you wish to believe, thank you and I will enjoy your company and discussion. If you do not wish to believe, thank you and I hope to enjoy your company. My beliefs are personal and based on faith, while that may not be logical, it serves me well. Each of us has to in the end decide on which course we truly wish to follow and I believe that to be an individual decision and those who just go thru the motions, either in favor or against, achieve nothing. I enjoy the thoughts of those who argue against the possibility of a God more than those who blindly go thru life not thinking at all. May God bless and keep you.
    Bandit99 and Dunerunner like this.
  6. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I, personally cannot look at this planet and not think that there is some superior entity (call it God or what ever). Diversity of plant and animal life here is amazing and earth seems unique (at this time) within the known universe. There are probable prospects in the cosmos, scientists believe; and God may just turn out to be our ancient ancestors who found a habitable planet to colonize.

    Thought provoking. But I cannot accept that this world happened by chance and that there isn't some grand plan in place.

    Great thing about free choice, each person if free to decide for themselves what makes sense to them.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
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  7. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Ghostx for me the beauty and patterns in the universe are evidence of a higher power. When I can use similar math methods to solve fluid dynamics problems and use the same method on materials stress flow problem to me that seems to indicate a governing "force" in the universe. To me science and God are not mutually exclusive. Maybe this was something some of our founding fathers understood as well and is seen in the term used "nature's God"? Understand that it is possible to be spiritual without being particularly religious.
    Dunerunner likes this.
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I know that there IS a GOD.... I talk to him, and when it is important, for my well Being, He talks to ME.... It is a very Personal Relationship.... It is JUST for Me.... and I have NO Interest in Being His MouthPiece, for anyone else, and certainly NOT for the rest of Humanity.... I have been scolded, for some of my DUMBER Actions, and prodded into some of My better Endeavors, By His Voice... I tell NO Man, how to deal with His GOD, and I refuse to ALLOW ANY Person, to get between ME, AND MY GOD... I find that ANYONE, who tries to do so, Especially if they require MONEY, to be... Well, Devilsh in Nature, and will have NO Truck with such Folks....
    Gray Wolf, duane and Bandit99 like this.
  9. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    What makes some one passionate about something ?

    I have found alternative medicines, and found for my self they work, with out side effect, except that of cure and healing.
    Yet one whom is convinced that modern medicine has all the answers ,will not even try these alternatives, satisfied to die in their care. How can you help them ?
    I can teach people whom are desperate to learn, how to make their own colloidal silver, but if they really don't believe in it, they won't even try. Though I can demonstrate it's use on my self ; people determined not to believe in it, will not try.
    Most often, it all boils down to desperation .
    Jesus said," Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled".
    Some one casual about their pursuit of God ",His interest is returned with the same value."
    Jesus did not chase after any one.
    The few that actually Loved God, pursued Jesus in a deeper relationship.
    Few actually seek after Jesus Lordship in their lives. they don't have time for Him. It's too inconvenient, they are not passionate about "that" relationship .(except for show)
    Bragging about one's accomplishment's in education ,doesn't impress God ,nor does miracles nor sacrifices or good deeds .
    They are noble, but fall short of what's been provided, and belittle Jesus sacrifice spent to provide the Holy Spirit, so men could have personal fellowship with God .
    I have God intervention in my life , not because of vast knowledge, but because I seek after His influence in my life regularly.
  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Well, I know there is a God because I would no doubt be dead, D-E-A-D, numerous times over by now if it wasn't for him/her/it. But, my take on religion is strange, to put it lightly, for I believe in God but I don't believe in religion and certainly don't believe in churches. I get a lot of stick for not going to church like my wife. But, I like to worship in my own way. My church/cathedral is the green forest of nature and the choir are its songbirds. God does exist but the religions have got it all wrong in my opinion. One of the reason I have no friends in the area here is because I do not attend a church as much of the community revolves around it. That's good if that is what one likes and there are great benefits to this, such as security, but I would be fake if I attended so... But, I can't change nor do I want to. I know my God and he knows me. I laugh at those that say such things as "God's will" or "God will find a way" as if they are not in control of their own lives and normally make the suggestion that "He helps those that help themselves" and place the blame or the burden where it belongs. My take on the Bible/Koran/Etc is it is filled with lots of good morals and stories and one could do worse than to live one's life by the morals found in that book. But, it is a book and only a book and the facts probably have been tainted by each and every religion that got their hands on it so...so there is very little truth left in it but nevertheless, good stories. Anyway, I do have faith and I believe deeply but it is in no institutionalize religion. And, now I am going to talk a hike in the huge State Park a few minutes from me and look, touch and smell God's creations.
  11. Meat

    Meat Monkey+++

    You might not be doing it right. Raise your hands to the sky. Then babble. God will find you. [afro]
  12. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    I believe there are only two things in life that are important; how you prepare yourself to meet your creator, and how you treat his other creations while you are here on this earth. All else is folly.
    Yard Dart, mysterymet and Motomom34 like this.
  13. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    I've studied and sampled many religions and have participated in many religious conversations. Sometimes it can be fun to see how the foundation of a person's mind is structured. Often religion offers a strong support for an intellectual mind while for others it's all they have to compare the world to. I have no intention of trying to shake anyone's foundation of belief as I believe that everyone is entitled to believe how they choose. I just enjoy talking about the way that religion affects the lives of people based on the way life hits them.

    Religion is more of a psychological area of study than anything else. It's a place that a person can go back to compare the world to in order to more deeply understand their place in it. Out of all the religions and philosophies that I've studied with an unbiased opinion, I would have to say that the native American philosophy makes the most sense. To worship the earth just seems like such a rational idea. I also admire how there was no economic or justice system. Instead, all members of a tribe operated like a family and provided for each other.

    Just imagine if that was the leading religion in the world today. How many problems would be solved? If instead of going to church every Sunday, the same people went out and cleaned up a park or a river... but no, I guess all that would just make too much sense and this world isn't about the sensible choices. Instead it's about the choices that make a man the most money.

    Like it or not, money is the most dogmatic religion in the world and its one that you have to believe in or you will not survive in society. It has all the bells and whistles of a religion, just not much of an underlying code of ethics to follow. It's just whoever has the most money rules all. Money is like the essence of life to most people and I have to admit that I'm getting pretty tired of being forced to believe that too.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  14. DarkLight

    DarkLight Live Long and Prosper - On Hiatus Site Supporter

    The worst thing to ever happen to spirituality is religion. The worst thing to ever happen to religion is church.

    It should be your personal relationship and possibly, at most, the close companionship of a few of those who feel the same way.

    To offer without having been asked is, in my opinion, the height of hubris. To try to codify and force others to be, feel, think, worship in a specific way is wrong and contrary to what many would call "the gospel".

    My God, my creator, values tolerance of others (but not to the point of self destruction) and freedom of choice above all else. Not drones or zombies. Not mindless obedience, but willing service and love and actions in His name (if in fact any credit is required).

    I know my God and my God knows me and that is truly all that matters. Everything else is window dressing and frankly gets in the way more often than not of being, doing and promoting good.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  15. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Grab a pencil or pen... or anything light like that... hold it out at arms length... let it go...

    what does it do?

    it follows the rules... or laws...

    take a penny and smell it... now rub it between thumb and finger... now remove the penny and smell your fingers...

    what do you smell?

    that also follows the rules... or laws...
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I'm not quite sure where you are headed with in this post OD49. What you have described are observable natural phenomena acting in predictable ways: Although they are labelled under the rubric of "laws of nature", nature does not conform to the laws that humans have used as a place maker for the phenomenon being observed; the laws merely describe our best understanding of how nature works. Our best understanding of how nature works, is tentative, and of course subject to revision as additional data becomes available and our means of collecting and analyzing it improves.

    The law of gravity that you are alluding to, with regard to the dropped pen/torch is a probabilistic prediction, arrived at by inductive reasoning, Deductive Reasoning vs. Inductive Reasoning and the aggregation of many observations of the phenomenon over time. Even so, it is possible that the pen/torch might not necessarily behave in the way predicted, according to the laws of gravity. There may be some alternative explanation for the abberant phenomenon (such as a conjuring trick). Induction as a means of scientific discovery has its uses, but it also has its limitations. Problem of induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For those inclined to further reading about the Laws of Nature, the following links are worth investigating.

    The Laws of Nature: A Skeptic’s Guide - CSI

    Laws of Nature (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
  17. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    I am pointing to the fact that some things apply even if you want or wish they did not...

    that things even if we do not fully understand them and only have a perceived idea of how and why they are...

    still are...

    rules... laws... call em what ya like... they still apply...
    GhostX likes this.
  18. GhostX

    GhostX Monkey

    I understand that there are laws that govern this reality but for those I prefer to take away all the words and numbers and just see them for what they are. They are the things that represent my consciousness and perception of this world, that much at least can be said for sure. People are free to play around with all kinds of thoughts and ideas inspired by these things but they are what they are no matter what labels people choose to give them as words are only representational tools for understanding, not what something intrinsically is. Just as a child fears an insect but feels a sense of ease when their parent calls it a "spider", it gives a point of reference on what could be lurking in the dark. Remnants of a survival mechanism no doubt.

    My point is that even with all of our words to describe something and where we choose to put them, they are still only words. "God" is a word that was created by man. It was a word created a long time ago during an age when human understanding was not as fine tuned as it is today. It answered the unanswered questions of the age for many and I'm sure it out many restless minds at ease but it also inspired obsessions that consumed people. No evidence has ever been provided for a person to earn that word today. If someone out there could earn "God" as a description for something in this day and age through logical means, I would be happy to share the understanding for that label with the added benefit of being able to see for myself what goes along with it. But I have no reference in my mind for what "God" is as of yet. No force of nature, time or space has earned that label in my mind as far as I can understand and please don't think it's because I'm unwilling. I'm just not big on accepting things on faith.
    chelloveck likes this.
  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I think some might call that, reality. The disagreements start coming thick and fast when metaphysical " rules and laws" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics meet the laws of nature.

    I agree with your first statement...
    (emphasis mine)

    For instance, if I step out of an aeroplane at 10,000 feet above terra firma , in the belief that I can fly, merely by flapping my arms like a bird...gravity will have its way with me regardless of my belief, and regardless of whether I might wish it did not, once my belief in the efficacy of arm flapping was belatedly found to be unsupported.

    Your 2nd statement...
    Without knowing what particular "things" you are referring to, it's not clear whether the not fully understood, but perceived things still are, beyond being mental abstractions. With regard to the existence of things, in what I understand to be reality, I endorse David Hume's observation:

    “In our reasonings concerning matter of fact, there are all imaginable degrees of assurance, from the highest certainty to the lowest species of moral evidence. A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence.” http://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/hume/enquiry.pdf (309kb)
  20. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    One's beliefs are between them and their god. If needs proof that there is a god, they have no god.
    mysterymet likes this.
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