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A Rabbi who found Messiah

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by fmhuff, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. fmhuff

    fmhuff Monkey+++

    With the death of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon expected imminently, the chronicler of the life of Israel’s venerated Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri’s prophecies is much in demand by the media.


    Because Kaduri, subject of a new book and movie, both titled “The Rabbi Who Found Messiah,” announced to his followers the long-awaited Messiah would not come until after the death of Sharon. He made the prediction two months before Sharon, still acting as prime minister, had a major stroke in 2006 that has left him in a coma ever since.

    Sharon’s family is at his bedside, and he may be pulled from life-support systems at any time. His medical condition has deteriorated following kidney surgery that backfired.

    Dr. Zeev Rotstein, director of the Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv, said Sunday Sharon’s condition is critical and life-threatening, according to an Associated Press report.

    Sharon’s condition has been on the decline since being hospitalized for renal failure.

    Sharon, 85, served as Israel’s prime minister from 2001 to 2006 when he became incapacitated. During his tenure, he initiated a disengagement plan, during which thousands of Jews were deported from Gaza and northern Samaria – turning the once-fertile region over to Hamas-control.

    Sharon suffered a serious stroke on January 4, 2006, and has been comatose since.

    In January 2013, Israeli specialists reported Sharon had showed “significant brain activity” in an MRI scan, responding to pictures of his family seven years after the stroke.

    Sharon’s death is of interest to mystics in Israel as well as prophecy buffs around the world because of the prediction byKaduri. Carl Gallups authored the book “The Rabbi Who Found Messiah” and inspired a movie on the subject of the same name in late 2013.

    In 2007, Kaduri, the most famous rabbi in Israel’s modern history, at 108 years old, left a cryptic death note revealing the name of the long-awaited Messiah. Within a year after the rabbi’s death, the note was reported to have been verified as authentic by some of Kaduri’s closest followers and then placed on Kaduri’s own website.

    The purported Kaduri message proclaimed that Messiah’s name was Yehoshua, or Jesus.

    It shocked the religious world.

    Shortly thereafter the furor began. The note immediately disappeared from Kaduri’s website. The media refused to report further on the matter.

    So now we'll see if this Rabbi is correct. Ariel Sharon has just died.

    Link to story. Link to obituary.

    The future does not rest on this Rabbi's story, but then again?
  2. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Interesting. I knew of the furor over his proclamation that Yehoshua was the messiah but hadn't heard of the Sharon connection before. I would like to see other "prophecies" of his to see if any have come to pass. Scripture tells us that a true prophet is right 100% of the time, in the old testament days if they weren't, they were stoned to death. A real "litmus" test to see if their messages are from God or their own imagination.
    Another curious "prophecy" is the Fatima prophecies. They supposedly predict the line of Popes up to the last one when Christ returns. According to that there is only, IIRC, one more to go. Makes me wonder about this new one. He is relatively young, so for there to be one more in our (baby boomer) lifetime something would have to happen to him. As he is very popular and shuns the heavy security of his predecessors, if he were to be assassinated it would enrage the Catholic and even the rest of the Christian world. Setting the stage for the tensions and wars that begin the tribulation?
    It is all just speculation and like conspiracy theory it is fun to ponder and to study but in the end it boils down to the same answer. Be prepared. As Christians we know our Lord is returning, but no man knows the day or hour (but can you know the year,month?) so we need to be as the wise virgins patiently waiting with oil in our lamps for the groom to arrive.
    Sapper John, Yard Dart and BTPost like this.
  3. fmhuff

    fmhuff Monkey+++

    I know, nobody knows the time or the season. There are so many deceptions out there. False christs, false prophets, deranged scriptural teaching, et al.

    It says that there will be signs and wonders, birth pangs in the earth, that you can tell the harvest is close by the season, etc. IMHO things look ripe, so as the word says we should be ready.

    As a point of reference, any day could be the last day for each of us.
    Minuteman likes this.
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    There's probably no need for anyone to get overly excited by Kaduri's "cryptic death note".

    It should be noted that Kaduri was an ultra orthodox jew who followed the Kabbalah tradition Kabbalah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Christian Kabbalah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). and that the cryptic note, merely says:

    You will note that the reference to the name of the suggested Messiah is ambiguous. Yehoshua may mean Joshua...the likely option, rather than Jesus, the less likely option in my view. You should also note that the purported name of the Messiah is not explicitly stated, it is a speculation drawn from an acronym taken from the text of Kaduri's testament. Very Kabbalistic...but not particularly "Biblical".

    I put Kaduri's testament in the same boats as Nostradamus, and Harold Camping. Harold Camping: the end was nigh, more than once A prophecy that is vague enough to be shoehorned into any number of post prediction scenarios, and capable of multiple post hoc revisions and apologies when the prophecy fails to occur as predicted. If Kaduri had have explicitly stated Jesus of Nazareth would be Israel's Messiah, post Sharon's death, it would be a most peculiar suggestion: given that most Jews have consistently denied Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah for just under 2000 years.

    There are many possibilities concerning Kaduri's "prophetic" testament. It could be a pious fraud, or it may be a post mortum means by which one ultra conservative rabbi
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Kaduri might benefit the State of Israel, by encouraging the US conservative christian lobby's continued political and materiel support of Israel.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  5. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey

    According to the Kaduri website, the code in the note referred to Jesus. That was pretty definite. No one connected to the Rabbi thinks he meant anything else.
    As far as the death of Sharon, that is pretty open ended. I think it is a wake up to the Jews to look for the hoped for Messiah. And who that Messiah is.
  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Could you please give a link to your sourced reference. I had a look at the Kaduri website כדורי.נט | גדולי התורה והקבלה ברשת and it was in Hebrew. I didn't know that you were fluent in Hebrew.

    I'd be more impressed if Ariel Sharon's name had have been given a mention in the Book of Revelation (of John the Divine).
    D2wing likes this.
  7. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey

    I checked a bunch more sources, all of them said the same thing the acronym is the formal Hebrew name for Jesus. That part is not in doubt buy any of the many sources I checked. I have heard that Joshua and Jesus are the same word in Hebrew, is that correct?. The bigger question is how we should take it. Was it authentic? To us who believe it is not all that significant. However to the devout Jews and the Rabbi's followers it is a bit of a shock. I am taking to attitude of wait and see.
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    1. No...the code had been interpreted as referring to Yehoshua. Some...principally Christians and Messianic Jews have interpolated Yeshua as the supposed Messiah in Kaduri's cryptic message. It would be the equivalent of transliterating Yehoshua (Joshua) to Yeshua (Jesus) instead of to Josh, the abbreviated English equivalent of Joshua. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_%28name%29 It should be noted that there were a number of Yeshuas hanging around (so to speak) Palestine, before and after Jesus's ministry, recorded in the Ancient Hebrew texts...

    2. This claim seems to be contradicted within the Israel Today article The Rabbi, the Note and the Messiah - Israel Today | Israel News

    (emphasis and underlining mine).

    3. I agree. The open endedness of the linkage of the prophecy to Sharon's death makes for a weak prediction. Meh, given Sharon's age and terminal illness, Kaduri might just as well have predicted that the messiah would appear some indefinite time into the future after his own death. Linking the prophecy to Sharon's death adds nothing to the probative probative legal definition of probative value of the prophecy.

    4. Man...the Jews have been looking for their hoped for messiah, before and after the advent of the Christ of the Christian New Testament. The fact that they (Jews) have not accepted the Christian Jesus Christ as their messiah makes a Christian interpretation of Kaduri's prophecy seem rather implausible.

    6. I have examined the Israel Today site The Rabbi, the Note and the Messiah - Israel Today | Israel News , the article is equivocal concerning the claims about Kaduri's purported prophecy.

    7. An unwarranted assumption.

    8. I doubt that many, if anyone, know the actual truth of the matter. It is far too easy to leap to conclusions without much by the way of actual evidence, and what we are pretty much are left with is mere speculation (aka wild *ss guessing).

    9. Not knowing what sources you have consulted, I cannot comment.

    10. Not knowing what sources you have consulted, I cannot comment.

    11.Yehoshua (Joshua) and Yeshu (Jesus) Have the same etymological root, but are not exactly identical...
    Yehoshua - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia whichever is the appropriate version depends upon the context within which it is used. It would make little sense to refer to Joshua as Jesus in the Hebrew book of the same name (Joshua), nor would it make much sense to refer to Jesus as Joshua in the New Testament Gospels. They are quite different characters in Biblical history.

    12. Probably with more than a grain of salt. A centenarian, in the terminal stages of his life claims to have had a personal one on one vision with the messiah??? That's a rather extraordinary claim, requiring rather extraordinary evidence to validate the truth of the claim. A handwritten manuscript of dubious provenance would not seem to be much to get very excited about. However, some people's standards of evidence may not be as demanding as mine or others may be. There are few Christian's who would accept Joseph Smith's Joseph Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia visions and supernatural visitations as factual, so why would contemporary Christians put much stock in some Jewish Rabbi's claims?

    13. Who knows. I have canvassed a couple of possibilities in the final paragraph of post #2 above.

    14. To us who have no belief in gods or messiahs, the "prophecy" has even less meaning.

    15. The prophecy may be surprising to some of Kaduri's followers, but I doubt that most orthodox Jews could give a toss about it. It seems to me that the only ones really getting into a lather about the Kaduri prophecy, are some Evangelical Christians and Messianic Jews. The prophecy would seem to play to their own confirmation biases concerning Jesus and Biblical eschatology, which perhaps was the document author's intention.

    16. It will be a long wait, is my guess.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
    D2wing and tulianr like this.
  9. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey

    Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate the effort. I don't have a thing to add but it is interesting to me. I see Judaism as part of Christianity yet separate as well.
  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Thankyou for your respectful reply. Most Christians, and to a lesser degree, some Muslims see some elements of the Tanakh (aka Old Testament) as being important, and indeed essential ingredients of Christianity, and of Islam, yet both Christianity and Islam, for various theological reasons, disregard significant swathes of the Tanakh as being irrelevant (i.e. "Oh, that's Old Testament stuff; Jesus Christ's redemptive sacrifice means we can wear clothes of mixed fabrics, and eat as much crawfish and bacon as we like, cos god's 'cultural Levitical Laws don't apply anymore to us gentiles!" Muslims of course consider much of the Tanakh interesting, and the basis for claiming the God of Abraham as their very own Allah, but believe that much of the Tanakh scriptures to be corrupted and therefore not to be taken as definitively as their own prophet Mohammed's (pbuh) Qu'ran.)

    Some Messianic Jews take the cultural elements of the Tanakh much more seriously than many Christians; and take the Christian New Testament much more seriously than most Jews do. Which puts Messianic Jews as being not quite Christian, but also not quite Jewish enough to be considered "real Jews" by the more orthodox adherents of the Judaic faith. Just to confuse the issue, organisations such as Jews for Jesus
    Jews for Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia metaphorically wear the garb of Messianic Jews, but actually evangelise Jews to convert to Christianity.

    For myself, as a former Christian, there's nothing in any of the Judaic, Christian or Muslim sacred texts that I consider authoritative any more, though, there is some wisdom to be found in each of those texts. Like Thomas Jefferson, I am inclined to discard the supernatural elements of all those texts, and all of the self promoting aspects of each of those religions. I consider that the Hebrew Testament's book of Proverbs contains much by the way of useful guidance and wisdom, but there are more useful ethical and moral case studies to be explored and evaluated in R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones Game of Thrones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia than the Bible. (there is only one Joffrey Barratheon in Game of Thrones, but there are many Joffrey like characters in the Old Testament.)
  11. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey

    When the Holy Spirit convicted me supernaturally to repent, he impressed upon me without doubt that Jesus is who he said he was, the Bible is his word, and that he expects me to do something about it. Which is to surrender lordship to him. It was a struggle as I enjoyed being sinful but finally he sent me a message I could not ignore.
    Anyway, from that day I have taken the entire Bible to be the word of God whether I understand it or not. By his spirit he has giving each of us that rely on Jesus a measure of understanding. "Though now we see through a glass dearly...".
    Of course anyone can call themselves a Christian as in raised by Christians or going inside a Church and so on. It is akin to going into a barn and saying now I am cow. My understanding is that to be a real Christian you must make Jesus lord of your life and accept him on his terms. Not that I am a very good example but I do understand that much.
    I do believe the supernatural. I also like Proverbs. I know that many men have gifts of wisdom. Not all is from God. There is also a powerful spirit of deception that seems very wise as well.
    I am thinking of a book I have started about how time can be transitory or eternal. And that God is eternal and has no limits when it comes to time. I am thinking that when he created time, he created all time as a framework much as a human might a movie but with latitude for the players. As for creation, he could create a million years in a second if he wished and make it go back in time or forward much like again you might in a movie.
    Sapper John likes this.
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