A Review on the Kanetsune Knife 247, as purchased it was less than desirable.

Discussion in 'Blades' started by HK_User, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    I apologize for not having a "before" picture but I never planned on doing a review of this Knife.

    Here is the on line posted sales information.

    "Kanetsune 10.25" Encyou Knife Product Info

    Devoted outdoors enthusiasts will have a great time with the Kanetsune Encyou Knife. This Knife from the knife experts at Kanestune measures 10 1/4" overall with a 5 5/8" 15 layer Damascus blue steel blade and a round design oak handle with black finish steel finger guard. Don't venture outside without the Kanetsune Encyou Sword.

    Kanetsune KB247: Encyou Knife

    Features of Kanetsune Encyou Knife:

    • 10 1/4" overall
    • 5 5/8" 15 layer Damascus blue steel blade
    • Round design oak handle with black finish steel finger guard
    • Magnolia wood sheath with brown leather buckle style closure and copper finish metal trim"

    Any way the blade can be had at a discount at various internet locations and viewed on line it appears to be a pretty decent value at the lowest discount price.

    When received it proved to be a mis-mash of sourced components. None of them really bad just a bit of a surprise for a Japanese Layer Forged bladed knife with sheath.

    The knife is light weight with a 5.6" blade, a stout white Oak handle and a wood sheath of Magnolia and a leather frog with steel buckles.

    The pins on the oak handle were not penned properly and as finished they were above the wood and very sharp edged. The two woods of the handle and the sheath were so far off matching in color that you would have thought this was an "ebay" find and not a Japanese production knife. The handle being white Oak was just that, near white to cream in color. The Sheath was well made but did not have a drain hole so you could expect to have a sheath full of water if out in a storm. the Leather frog is well made but again it is yet a third color of brown and did not set well with the GREEN tint of the brown sheath and the white Oak handle.

    A sharp new file did great work on the handle pins and a bit of work on the steel blade guard and wooden handle joint, also a sharp edge on the oak at this point.

    A small rasp was used to remove the factory plastic finish on the knife handle, this was used as a way to roughen the wood to have a bit of a grip to hold on to after the final application of BLO.

    All parts were pulled apart, checked for fit and then the task of matching up the colors was tackled.

    Oak, as a stained product, seldom accepts colors of stain using an oil base. So a water base color must be used. The Oak wood must be sanded to remove the factory finish and then roughed up a bit with rasp for a decent grip.

    A good color picked to match each item was determined to be of a walnut hue. This worked out pretty well and looks more natural than the original colors.

    Not having any water based stains or paints I brewed up some Espresso from a French roast Coffee of a Turkish grind. The handle was placed in this hot liquid and the stain was brushed on and dried a number of times. The hot coffee opened up the grain of the wood and allowed the stain to set.

    The same Espresso wash stain was applied to the sheath and the leather frog, yes even the leather needed a bit of work and the inside unfinished section received a bit of coffee stain. Each item was compared with the other and a final color was found to be as best as it was going to be.

    Still the colors did not match, the Green Sheath with brown tints, and the white Oak handle were off a bit. But now I could use a bit of "rust" coloring to bring all the colors to match. Using some old enamel hobby rust red paint and kerosene I applied a wash of the red to each item. soon the colors came together and I allowed as how it was a big improvement and one that would need to be cured a while.

    After curing and drying I then applied several very light coatings of BLO (boiled linseed oil) on the wood components and will need to do a few more coatings and polishing of these stained parts. I then used Ospho to bring out the grain in the layer forged blade..

    The completed project pictures below say the rest.


    Kanetsune Knives 247 1.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 2.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 3.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 4.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 5.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 6.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 7.JPG
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
    Hanzo, gunbunny, Tully Mars and 3 others like this.
  2. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Very nice project @HK_User ....

    Coffee stain?... that's the first time I've heard of that... very cool... I guess it makes sense...

    Interesting to note that a few custom makers and even swordsmiths in Japan make the blade... then contract the handle and sheath... some make the blade and the wood handle and outsource the sheath... I would image... an outfit like Kanetsune probably sources from different resources... hence the difference in colors and even wood type....

    I really like this style of knife and it's components... need to study and learn more about the pinning strength and the guard... thought about forging those guards for a project... sigh... another project waiting in the back of my mind...

    Interestingly enough... I see a lot of expensive (in my mind) Japanese blades that come with a pretty "rough" fit and finish..... must be a cultural thing.... contrast that with a lot of expensive (again in my mind) Japanese blades that come with near flawless fit and finish... go figure...

    Nice project and write up... looks like a great tool... ;)

    Thanks for sharing,

  3. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    How is the blade? I have seen them around myself, but I have a distrust for Damascus these days. Seems to have become a catchall for "I want to scam you out of your money. Look, shiny" . Which is sad.
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  4. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    Good question and comment @AxesAreBetter ,

    Kanetsune is a pretty reputable outfit... and normally only source blades that will uphold and perpetuate that... of all grades and of course you get what you pay for.... there are still plenty of pretty awesome craftsmen and women in Japan and on top of that the government has pretty strict licensing and certification processes in order for you to be able to either produce and offer traditional swords and knives as a sword smith or functional tools for field or kitchen (can't remember that name for that but producing garden, field and kitchen type knives).... see that signature on the blade... my guess is that it is a blade of some quality....

    @HK_User probably could do a simple etch in either lemon juice or distilled vinegar (heat it if he wanted a faster deeper etch), neutralize it, then buff it with some green rouge and enhance and then examine the layered damascus look... possibly see if there is a heat affected zone in the steel as well...

    "Damascus" had a pretty important functional as well as aesthetic use back when things like precision crucible steels and computer controlled heat treat processes were not available. It made a pretty darn bullet proof tool that held an awesome edge out of the only simple steels that were available, made from simple processes, with simple tools, out of simple resources like black sand, red dirt or clay...

    Again... there are all grades of products today... and you get what you pay for... I hear you when you question damascus.... some vendors and manufacturers are offering products as "damascus" that are simply etched steel and not folded and forge welded layered steel... purely for looks.... and actually that's all people are looking for... same with all desired finishes... whether it be a mirror polish, matte, acid, or some kind of coating... and some don't care about performance (I sort of wonder about that because "performance" is so subjective... and some folks like sharpening so much that they aren't happy if they can't sharpen their own blade - hence a couple manufacturers like Emerson Knives discontinued a particular steel on a blade because they kept getting returns from folks who couldn't sharpen it when it finally dulled.... the steel was super sharp... but super hard)

    Today with all the super steels, continued research and precision testing, computer controlled everything including heat treating atmospheres.... a simple mono steel blade, even of the humblest grade, such as 1095, can be produced, cnc ground, and heat treated to perform beyond the dreams and expectations of makers just 10-15 years ago...

    It's a fascinating evolution... never underestimate what was thought to be a "cheap" knife... with all that technology and research available... some very simple inexpensive knives will outperform the super expensive wonder steel knives a not too long ago...
    Good and bad... consumers can now get better and better performance out of reasonably priced knives from manufacturers.... not so good... like everything... you can buy that knife and it's probably considered a consumable... so inexpensive... when it dulls or breaks... toss it and buy another... some are even produced that way like the Havalon disposable razor knife... great for folks that need a razor sharp knife and just want to toss the blades... and also not so good for the craftsmen and women who don't have access to the technology, buying power to reduce raw material costs and hype through marketing... mom and pops are going extinct... not too many appreciate a handmade, grown or raised tool... and that's ok I suppose... sort of sad... but ok....

    Still... there is always something to be said about the "soul" of a particular tool like a knife... and that only comes from the blood, sweat, love and tears of the maker that hand made it... not from a computer ;)

    But I'm and old fashioned fart (that knows a little about these new technologies)... so do your own research and draw your own conclusions... you might be surprised how it changes your view on things.... JMHO

    Great knife and project @HK_User ! I'm actually interested in where you got that from ;)

    Sorry for the ramble ( I can spend hours talking about these things and how my own thoughts and opinions have changed in just the past couple years) but there's a few things I'm "passionate" about... and tools and steel is one of them ....

    Have a great week everyone!

    Take Care and God Bless,

  5. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    My background is hitting things with sharp stuff for kicks. I do martial arts and whatnot, and I am a big fellow that hits hard. I know what weapons are supposed to be able to do, and I have handled some exceptional ones, and have studied a lot of the historical ones through one means or the other. Always on the lookout for something decent, that will do what it pretends it can. Knife snob by experience. I would never have thought of Damascus as a finish, as I am actually interested in it as a steel.
    Bear likes this.
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Bear is not alone in the will to ramble. I noticed others on the forum bring up the process of attempting to make "Damascus" like steel. Books have been written as well as white papers on the subject. A few have earned their PHD researching the subject.

    My blade was purchased on line at a Knife Outlet.

    But back to the blade above. Although listed as Damascus in the sales lit it is not in my opinion such a steel. What it is is a certificated steel produced in japan for knives of good quality. Japan/ Hitachi also produces a third steel that is for high end kitchen knives. This steel is not exported in its raw form.

    If you click on the blade to increase its size you can view the welded layers.

    Below is a description.
    Kanetsune knives
    Forged throughout an amazing 800 years of history, the Kanetsune knives are impressively strong, beautiful and exceedingly sharp. The Kitasho Company limited is the name behind this trusted brand, and they have been established since 1948 in Seki City, Japan (affectionately known as the city of blades). The company are actively and passionately enthused by their work, and continue to make a wide range of the finest swords, knives, cutlery, axes etc. The company uses three main types of steel in the production of their knives and swords. First of all there is White steel (known as Shirogami in Japan). This is a refined Carbon steel which does not contain any ingredients such as Blue steel. Secondly they use Blue steel (known as Aogami in Japan). With this steel they add Tungsten and Chromium to White steel. This makes the steel far more durable. Thirdly they use Super Blue Steel (known as Aogami Super in Japan). This is their highest grade of steel and has high levels of Carbon and Chrome to make it extremely strong, hard, resistant to corrosion and is able to keep a strong edge for long periods of time. They use the steel from Hitachi Metals Ltd, as their steels are high grade, and are often found in electronic devices. They also make Yasuki Hagane (YSS Yasuki speciality steel) for the cutlery industry. White steel has Rockwell hardness rating of 60-61, Blue steel has the 61-62 and super Blue steel has a 62-63 HRC rating. So when you want to experience supremely high quality knives and hunting tools, take a really close look at Kanetsune knives. You will definitely not be disappointed.

    Now back to your question of the knife blade. It is a good blade and sharpens well for me. You can see the fold marks and a center line of steel down the spine with two out side layers (I'll try and photo that part later) which proves my point of calling it layered forged steel.

    Damascus is a word not to be tossed around. To see recent Damascus steel is to see the many folds and the true welding. Blade Smiths in the US must produce a blade with 300 layers and this blade will then go through a torture test that includes bending with out breaking to a given spec. Only when their blades pass this test, which actually destroys such a fine blade, will they be presented with the prestigious MS stamp by their guild.

    Close-up of an 18th-century Iranian forged Damascus steel sword

    Ancient Damasus may have had bits of carbide as an impurity
    Wootz steel is a steel characterized by a pattern of bands or sheets of micro carbides within a tempered martensite or pearlite matrix. It is the pioneering steel alloy matrix developed in South India in the sixth century BC and exported globally. It was also known in the ancient world as Seric Iron.

    Below is more information.

    Damascus steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  7. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Hitachi Metals Ltd. is one of top manufactures of high grade metal products and materials, electoronics devices, high grade functional components and equipment. The company is well known as a manufacture of its “Yasuki Hagane” YSS (Yasuki Speciality Steel) for cutlery industries.

    Yasuki Hagane steel has been produced in their plant in Shimane prefecture in Japan where the high quality iron sand has been produced for making traditional Japanese swords since ancient times. These are three main premium grade high carbon steels (Shirogami, Aogami and Aogami Super) that have been used for making Japanese made field & kitchen knives. Hitachi metal is also known as the manufacture of high grade premium stainless steel, ATS-34 and ZDP-189.

    ZDP-189 is the highest performing steel in the knife industry today.
    White Steel (Shirogami)
    This is refined carbon steel that does not contain any ingredients and can be used for making high-grade Hocho (Japanese kitchen knives), hatchets, axes, sickles and chisels.

    Blue Steel (Aogami)
    This is made by adding chromium and tungsten to Shirogami (White Steel) that makes the material more durable and provides corrosion resistance and mostly used for making high-grade Hocho (kitchen knives) and outdoor knives.

    Super Blue Steel (Aogami Super)
    This is the highest grade steel in their product line that contains high percentage of carbon, chrome to increease hardness, improviding edge retention and corrosion resistance.

    Cowry-Y is a powdered metallurgical steel produced by Daido Steel in Japan and it not available in the United States. This steel is capable of a higher hardness without being brittle. The resulting edge has extremely good edge retention and can get better finish if you prefer mirror finish on your knife blade. Cowry-Y contains 1.25 of Carbon, 14.5 of Chromium, 3.0 of Molybdenum, 1.0 of Vanadium, 0.3 Nb in HRC62-64.
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  8. Bear

    Bear Monkey+++ Founding Member Iron Monkey

    @AxesAreBetter thanks for the comment... I suppose we are all knife snobs to some extent... no one with the absolute last say on such things... everyone with there own correct opinion based on their background, experience, education etc... Live and let live IMHO.... and yeah... I've seen simply etched blades to pass as forged layered steel... ;)

    Yup... nice post @HK_User ... always like reading about these things again and again... the old ways... maybe not the newest and best... but the newest and best... changes every day.... imagine... centuries ago... some motivated, inspired, talented, hard working individual made these tools out of this material... knives not so bad... but there are damascus gun barrels that survive today and work just fine... from centuries ago... I know... I had one for a while ;)

    Here in the US.... Bill Moran... the father of damascus here in the US... funny how we sometimes don't realize... nothing is really new... we keep going back to the old ways and designs... and calling it new... no such thing when looked at from a broad perspective... but that again ... is JMHO...

    Bill Moran, 80; Damascus Steel Bladesmith

    Great thread... Thanks for posting @HK_User

    Take Care All and God Bless,

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  9. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Here is a bit more on the "Modern" level of research and the skills of others. I am proud to say I have a blade by Robert C. Job, with the provenance.

    This article is by his daughter and Job was the driving force in Wootz International.


    New Carbon Molecules Make Stronger Metals
    By Jennifer Job
    Simple procedures for growing billions of unique, superstrong "fibers" in molten metals open the way to a new generation of environmentally friendly alloys.
    Jennifer Job, Robert Job's daughter, is a freelance writer residing in Matthews, North Carolina When Robert Job was 14 years old, he stripped his mother's Electrolux vacuum cleaner and used it to build a blower for a forge in his backyard. Since then, his avocational passion has been the search for the ultimate steel. In l982, he rediscovered the process for casting Wootz, a premier steel made in ancient India that gained renown in Europe as Damascus steel. The casting process had been lost for almost 300 years. "Making the rediscovery," says Job, "required extensive experimentation and metallurgical testing, all guided by insights gained through intense study of archaeological records."
    In contrast, the discovery in 1991 of a metallofullerene-based steel in which many of the carbon atoms have formed spherical molecules, which in turn are linked through iron atoms into long coiled cables, was a matter of serendipity. It was a failed experiment, the product of which Job recognized as having extraordinary properties. "My furnace shut down due to a clogged fuel-oil burner while I was melting an ingot of the Wootz," says Job. "By the time I fixed the furnace and was able to stabilize the temperature at or near 1,450°C (2,642°F), the melt had been cooled and reheated several times. Assuming that such erratic heating and cooling must have destroyed the desired properties of the metal, I turned off the furnace and let it cool."

    Surprisingly, the color and surface texture of the steel from the failed melt was demonstratively different from the standard Wootz that Job had produced dozens of times before. Cutting through the new material with a standard 11-inch-diameter abrasive cutoff wheel was nearly impossible. When Job tried to slice through this strange ingot, it ground down the cutoff wheel, displaying wear resistance unheard of in normal high-carbon steel. Furthermore, the amount of metal burning experienced during the cutting was much smaller than is common for such processes.

    The cut sections showed little or none of the "blueing" that is typical of such high-temperature abrasion in high-carbon steel. This indicated that the new material must conduct heat much better than normal-carbon steel. The material also felt unusually smooth or slick to the touch in the cut areas, and it was so abnormally ductile that by hammering it cold Job was actually able to flatten it without producing observable cracks. He also noticed that deep cuts and crevices seemed to "fill in" after time. This "self-healing" process had not been reported in standard steels up to this point.

    Coupons and 'fluff'

    Following his initial metallurgical analysis of the material, Job knew he had stumbled upon something totally different from anything previously encountered in metallurgical science, certainly different from anything published openly in recent metallurgical literature.

    Examination of the new steel by the then new and advanced electron microscope at the nearby Universities of South Carolina at Columbia and North Carolina at Charlotte (UNCC) revealed a molecular structure unlike any Job or his associates had seen before.

    When Job tried to replicate the structures he had seen under the microscope by making multiple heats in his foundry lab, he soon discovered that he could. Again and again, these same structures formed in the steel. Studying that process, Job confirmed a growing sense that the formation of the unusual structures was altering the course of the remaining melt cycle. In effect, the structures became the controlling factor in the subsequent stages of forming the final metal alloy.

    Returning to the university lab, Job took with him not only standard metallurgical coupons (testing samples) of the new carbon steel but a remarkable black "fluff" that remained after chemists at UNCC boiled small coupons of the material in 50 percent hydrochloric acid covered with the solvent toluene for several days. "Conventional carbon steel," explains Job, "would have been totally dissolved with no solid remains after such treatment."

    At a magnification of 1 million, the fluff appeared as strings of some kind of beads. But what were these beads that could survive the hugely corrosive boiling bath of hydrochloric acid? Sidestepping the need to know the specifics of the beads' composition, Job named the new material Rhondite, after his supportive and certainly patient wife, Rhonda. It was only after two more years of extensive analysis that the structures would be confirmed as matching unexpected molecular structures that scientists around the globe were only just beginning to understand and confirm: fullerenes.

    Buckyball molecules

    Like the discovery of Rhondite, the discovery that 60 carbon atoms could link together into a hollow, spherical molecule was itself a serendipitous discovery. In 1985, Richard Smalley of Rice University and Sir Harry Kroto of the University of Sussex had shown through their research that cyanopolyynes (particular kinds of molecules of carbon, nitrogen, and hydrogen) could form in carbon-rich giant stars. In the course of their research, however, they also saw evidence of a completely new form of carbon. After five years they confirmed, and were able to persuade a doubting scientific community, that they had discovered a hollow spherical molecule made of 60 carbon atoms (hence C60). They further demonstrated that the 60 atoms were arranged in a pattern found not only in soccer balls but also in domes designed by the late engineer and architect Buckminster Fuller. In honor of Fuller, the molecules were formally named buckminsterfullerenes, or fullerenes for short. The most common 60-atom variant was called buckyballs. Smalley and Kroto were awarded the 1996 Nobel Prize in chemistry for their discovery.

    Once the fullerenes were accepted into the scientific worldview, a great outburst of fullerene research ensued. This research revealed that C60 is but one of a large family of closed, hollow, and even tubelike carbon molecules ranging from 28 to more than 1,000 carbon atoms for the spheroidal fullerenes and more than one million for fullerene tubes [see "Soccer-Ball Carbon," The World & I, April 1993, p. 202, and "The World's Tiniest Tubes," The World & I, August 1997, p. 152]. Despite the great outpouring of research papers, however, few commercial applications for fullerenes have been developed. Looking for reasons for this slow development, one quickly realizes that the lack of a cost-effective way of making fullerenes has been a major barrier.

    In the meantime, working outside the mainstreams of chemistry and physics in which most fullerene research was conducted, Job and his small research team realized and confirmed, over two years and hundreds of tests, that the new rhonditic steel was a veritable warehouse full of fullerenes. For this work, Job's primary collaborators were his chief metallurgical engineer, Jim Craig, and his applied research engineer, Tim Pinder. Not only were the spherical carbon molecules abundant but many of them were linked systematically through iron intermediary atoms into long cables, somewhat like beads on a necklace. Furthermore, pairs of those long cables were often coiled into helical structures reminiscent of DNA molecules, which in turn could coil and coil again, forming double-, triple-, and even quadruple-wound cables.

    All these levels of structure forming inside the steel melt offered a new world of microenvironments in which atoms of iron, carbon, and alloy metals could solidify individually or as carbide compounds. Thus, individual units or clusters of these could be trapped inside individual spherical molecules, inside the coils at any level, or between adjoining loops of the coils. The interactions of the coils plus the trapped units produced new crystalline structures and patterns that had never been seen before.

    Job had stumbled upon a whole different world of metal-forming dynamics. Now earlier observations that formation of the rhonditic steel structure incorporating metallofullerenes alters the later metal-forming process made sense. The metallofullerenes were tying up carbon atoms that otherwise would have remained freely available to interact with iron atoms in the course of forming the carbon steel. In addition, they were physically controlling grain and carbide growth and distribution throughout the material.

    Although the first fullerene identified in rhonditic steel was the soccer-ball-like C60 molecule, later more refined analysis and varied experimentation has identified many species of metallofullerenes in rhonditic alloys. The smallest of these consists of 28 carbon atoms trapping a single iron atom inside (represented by C28@Fe), while the largest found to date is C200@Fe3, a molecule made of 200 carbon atoms with 3 iron atoms inside.

    Scientific rejection

    The scientific community for several years rejected Job's material and data. While various reasons could be suggested for this, one major factor was that Job's assertion that fullerenes were forming in a molten metal placed the process off the map of mainstream scientific understanding and investigation. The pure C60 made in the gas phase in a high vacuum at or near 1,500°C (2,732°F) breaks down in the open atmosphere at about 400°C (752°F), but Job's material is made in a vacuum as well as in open furnaces at or near 1,500°C. How is this possible?

    Today Job offers a plausible explanation. "We now know that as fullerene molecules form and become intimately and systematically interactive with multitudes of metal atoms, they self-organize into the highly stable nano-cables, which are much more stable than individual fullerenes formed in the pure state through the gas phase process. The metallofullerene nano-cables are bound very strongly together with covalent and valent bonding, while their pure fullerene cousins at best form only weakly bonded crystalline structures."

    From the perspective of carbon atoms seeking to make the lowest energy associations, the molten iron at or near 1,500°C is itself an inert, low-pressure "atmosphere." Inside the melt, the carbon is free to combine into its lowest net energy ordered state--first as metallofullerenes (fullerenes with one or more iron atoms inside or outside the ball), then as the distinctive self-organized metallofullerene nano-cables. The cause of the nano-cable formation may be nothing more sophisticated than the availability of two factors: metal atoms that can go inside and between the fullerene carbons, and adequate time under prime fullerene-forming conditions. Readily available metal atoms are naturally provided by the molten metal, while the extended time is achieved by cycling the temperature and carbon content of the melt up and down within a "thermo-cycling window" defined by critical ranges of temperature and carbon concentration. The process controls temperature and carbon concentration not only by heating but also by adding powders of low-carbon metals at strategic moments in the process. In this way, the protocols for making the rhonditic-phase structure allow orders of magnitude more time for forming the nano-cables than is allowed for forming fullerenes in the generally accepted gas-phase protocols.

    In the thermo-cycling window discovered by Job, the carbon-steel melt is neither purely solid nor purely liquid. "In that range of temperature and percent of carbon," says Job, "the melt is like mush, with granules of low-carbon iron suspended in molten high-carbon iron that also contains free carbon atoms." As the melt is heated and cooled within the thermo-cycling window, carbon diffuses into or out of the high-carbon granules. This traps the free carbon in a low-energy ordered state in which the carbon is free to anneal into the distinctive fullerene form.

    Job has devised a system with enough controllable variables to give good regulation of the nature and quantity of nano-cables formed. Experimental evidence has confirmed that Job's team has succeeded in creating over 100 alloys of carbon, stainless, and high-strength nickel cobalt steels. In addition, they have created a variety of metal matrix composites containing metallofullerene nano-cables that formed and self-organized in the melt.

    Furthermore, "Recent experiments involving alternative thermo-cycling protocols have revealed," says Job, "that cycling in the 1,200-1,300°C (2,162--2,552°F) temperature range with the late heat addition of ultra-low-carbon metal (in this case, iron) allows large--on the order of 2+ microns long--'bucky tubes' to form." These are cylinders made of carbon atoms whose orderly array demonstrates symmetry patterns similar to those shown in the buckyballs.

    Perhaps the most astonishing aspect of the rhonditic, self-organized, macromolecular structures is their economy of manufacture. Exhaustive tests have shown that rhonditic alloys can be manufactured in units of 300 to 6,000+ pounds (136--2,727+ kilograms) in every type of furnace system--from the most ancient gas muffle systems to the most advanced vacuum-induction and carbon-arc furnace systems--utilized throughout the world today. Even more astonishing is the fact that the rhonditic phase can be successfully formed in virtually any alloy chemistry, including certain types of ultra-low-carbon alloys of iron, nickel, and cobalt that traditionally treat high levels of carbon as a "poison."

    Experimental evidence shows that fullerene species have a tendency to mix and bond irrespective of what alloys are involved. In a seemingly total disregard for the alloy chemistry, the fullerenes bond with diverse transitional metals into the distinctive double alpha helix nano-cables, which then form the higher-level cables.

    These structures are the only way to explain the fact that a 1.2 percent carbon rhonditic steel with no added alloying metal proved to have a wear resistance four times greater than Stellite, an alloy that is widely used in industry because of its extreme wear resistance. Stellite is a steel alloyed with a high percentage of cobalt, a somewhat rare and hence costly metal. Eliminating the need for cobalt, rhonditic steel can be produced for less than 1 percent of the cost of making Stellite.

    Other comparisons are just as remarkable. Compared with standard carbon steel of a given percent of carbon, rhonditic steel can be as much as three times stronger (in load-bearing capability), more than twice as corrosion resistant, and as much as three times tougher (based on standard impact tests of resistance to brittle fractures).

    When alloying metals are included in a carbon steel melt and processed by the rhonditic protocols, the resulting rhonditic alloy generally outperforms the comparable standard alloy--and without the secondary treatment often required for standard alloys. Consider, for example, stainless steel, an alloy of carbon steel and chromium that is widely used in both industry and consumer applications. Comparing the standard so-called AISI 304 stainless steel with the comparable 304 rhonditic stainless steel shows the rhonditic 304 outperforming the standard stainless 304 in every category. In addition, unlike standard 304, rhonditic 304 can be continuous cast into parts that are nearly the correct size and shape ("near net" parts) without further heat treatment.

    Subsequent testing has proven that many rhonditic alloys are superplastic (easily deformable) at approximately 975°C (1,800°F) while retaining substantial strength well above temperatures at which the normal alloys would begin to fail. What this means is that a manufacturer can realize huge savings by using rhonditic 304 to produce near net cast parts instead of using standard 304, which requires the costly and time-consuming procedures common today. These often involve carving out (machining) parts from large, roughly sized and shaped chunks of the alloy and then heat-treating them, in some cases many times.

    Welcome to the new world of metals processing in which, for example, rhonditic stainless steel can be continuously cast into tubes with properties superior to those of standard grades of welded-seam stainless tubing, which is rolled and heat-treated through more than 10 steps.

    Worldwide patents

    Job's work, which has already earned worldwide patents, opens a new vista of commercially viable applications for materials in fields ranging from the most intricate aerospace parts to surgical needles, road grader blades, ball bearings, and structural I-beams. Furthermore, beyond the more conventional and obvious types of metal alloys with which one can apply the rhonditic protocols, other materials can benefit from the use of rhonditic materials as catalysts. For example, experimentation with silicon, the big brother of carbon in the periodic table of elements, has shown that a proprietary rhonditic alloy acts as a catalyst leading to the formation of a previously unreported structure in silicon that is at least as conductive as gold. At the same time, this new form of silicon is fully stable in the open atmosphere and costs less than 10 cents an ounce to make! A second example of the still largely unexplored potency of rhonditic alloys as catalysts is the creation of fully stable aluminum carbide for less than $1 per pound, a radically low cost by today's standards.

    While other companies and researchers, through licensing agreements, pursue commercial applications of the great family of rhonditic materials already discovered, Job and his associates continue to explore new territories for applying the rhonditic protocols. In this way, they have made a material whose nano-scale crystalline structure permits a read-write memory capability, and they have devised a methodology for inexpensively manufacturing a whole family of nano-size spheroidal carbides for use in metal matrix composites.

    Licenses covering applications of specific classes of rhonditic material in broad areas of technology are under negotiation with several major companies, while one agreement--with the Aerospace Division of BF Goodrich--has already been signed. Most immediately, ongoing negotiations with the major automotive and trucking companies indicate new applications for passenger and freight vehicles just over the horizon. Beyond that, several license negotiations are still in preliminary stages.

    As the new millennium dawns, the growing family of fullerene-enhanced alloys offers humanity a choice. Will we continue to use twentieth-century alloys, or will we shift to twenty-first-century alloys that give the same performance with lighter weight, lower cost, fewer resource and energy inputs, and thus less demand on the environment?

    Since twentieth-century furnaces can be readily adapted to making rhonditic materials, and twentieth-century industrial plants can be readily adapted to working with rhonditic materials, it might seem there would be no barriers to the shift. Yet the inertia of old ways of thinking and acting can be powerfully fixed. One hopes the push of environmental constraints and the pull of competitive advantage will conspire to bring us the benefits of metallofullerene alloys early in the twenty-first century.
    Dont, gunbunny and ghrit like this.
  10. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Jesus. Old ways of doing thing i sort of a hobby of mine. There is a lot of debate in the martial community as to whether Damascus originally refereed to pattern welded, or similar looking, Wootz steel at all. There are some arguments that the reference is to an early form of crucible steel, with a more uniform quality and purity. There are experiments that are ongoing from fanatics like me, and new findings pop up from time to time. A lot of the museums are starting to really catch on to Living Historians and the HEMA crowd are dieing to know how things really were, and are testing pieces much more commonly for composition, geometry, thicknesses. It's pretty awesome.
    kellory and HK_User like this.
  11. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    it sounds a lot like Reardon metal from Atlas Shrugged.
  12. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Posted today to answer a few others' questions on the blade material and quality

    These two pictures to better display the layered steel.

    One of the spine and the other of the blade.

    As a knife this is pretty decent it would have been a lot better had the knife been checked and detailed for sharp edges and spikes before shipping. Maybe I received the only knife from that Monday's production which was not inspected.

    Yes I would buy one again, but if you purchase one expect to check it out as soon as you open the box.

    Kanetsune Knives 247 8 Spine Showing Layered Steel.JPG

    Kanetsune Knives 247 9  Blade Showing Welded Layered Steel.JPG
    Hanzo and gunbunny like this.
  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Excellent explanation @Bear! Much learned from this.
  14. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    I was ask and did give feed back to the on line company about my review of their product as a vendor. They did reply promptly, it was one of those "We'll look into the problem and sorry for the work you needed to do to make the knife presentable."

    I waited a week or so and nothing more was sent from the seller.

    I do note that all of that particular product is now "unavailable" at that sellers site and they carry a considerable volume of the product line.

    Since then I have requested detailed information about their process of checking their stock about my feed back. So far no reply, but you know when I take the time to reply for a request of a product then I expect the process to be a two way street.

    The product was purchased thru AMAZON.COM and when viewing their site I see that my review has also been removed.

    Maybe I'll have more information later but understand I was providing a service as requested by Amazon and the Vendor.

    The project is not complete for the BLO is still in the drying stage on the handle and the sheath and that just requires what ever time is needed for the dry time depending on temps and weather. The drain hole has been finished and a .22 shell is the liner for that part of the project. I believe others will be surprised at the finish you can have using the old ways. As an example I will also display a butcher knife that has a couple of decades on a BLO wood handle finish. Of course no one in their right mind places a good knife in a dishwasher!


    So this BLO coated handle on the 20 year old knife is in very good condition.

    Pictures later when the BLO is dry!
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  15. califdude

    califdude Monkey

  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    A Second Review of another Knife from Kanetsune.

    Doing my best to be fair in this review means that I purchased a second knife. Not the same exact model but the same handle design etc by the same company and from an internet on line store. The reason for this is that the original outlet was suddenly unable to obtain the same model so I picked the closest blade length. RECALL MAYBE?

    Although the cost was about the same that also means I received the same quality. The handle and the sheath colors come a bit closer to matching although the knife retaining strap is not tight so the knife will rattle in the sheath. The handle pins do not protrude as much as the first knife but they are just as sharp and are above the oak handle, so a bit of file work is required to prevent abrading your hand while using the knife. It is the same for the handle and the guard joint. The circumference of the Oak end of the handle is raised about 1/32 of an inch and is at a sharp 90 degree angle, this needs to be level with the steel guard or at least rounded at the junction, so the use of a rasp will prevent you from shaving your thumb and trigger finger.

    Both items are in the realm of a poor finish for what could be a good knife. I would not have purchased a knife of this quality for this amount had I handled it first at a retail outlet.

    Should a moderator or blade expert wish to purchase the new knife for an inspection then let me know. Purchase price plus shipping please.

    Below is the stock photo and the description.

    Kanetsune Knives 215 Kage Damascus Fixed Blade Knife with Oak Wood Handles
    by Kanetsune
    Be the first to review this item
    List Price: $260.78
    Price: $145.35 & FREE Shipping
    You Save: $115.43 (44%)

    Kage, 5.32 in.
    • 15 Layer Damascus, Oak Handle, Wood Sheath


  17. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    As promised, the new purchase is at the top. The knife handle is not matched very well with the sheath and is a bit rough in its finish.

    The worked over knife is below. Maybe just minor difference to some but a life is too short to carry an ugly knife and sheath.

    The BLO is now dry on the bottom knife and it has a nice finish that can be repaired if damaged or sees too much wear.

    A before and after but different knives.JPG
    Hanzo, gunbunny and Bear like this.
  18. Hanzo

    Hanzo Monkey+++

    You did a great job refinishing your knife, @HK_User. You have action shots?
  19. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Never planned on a report so no action shots.

    What I do have is the knife I expected when I first ordered.

    By that I mean, a well turned out, smooth detailed finish with a matching sheath!

    The others went for presents after I completed the refinish.

    I'll take a few pictures and post later. I am pleased with the third knife and need do nothing except use it.

    To boot I paid less!
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  20. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    This is a Sakura, the third knife I purchased it is well finished and sharp.

    The blade is 15 layer Damascus Blue Steel. The knife measures 9 1/2" long overall, the blade is 4 7/8" long, the guard is cast steel.






    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
    Hanzo and kellory like this.
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