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A version of Unintended Consequences or EFAD?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ChrisNuttall, May 2, 2012.

  1. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    (I’m not sure if this is the right place, so please couldthe mods move it if not.)

    Some explanation first.

    Some time ago I had a chat with Matt Bracken, who wroteEnemies Foreign and Domestic and its two sequels. (Both of which are well worth a read.) He is a very good guy and we chatted back andforth for a little bit. I noted that thegood guys in both his books and Unintended Consequences operate as independentagents – there’s no serious attempt at coordinating their efforts OR evenoffering the Feds much of a chance to get out without being assassinated, whichin real life would cause them to dig in their heels and concentrate on the war. Nothing concentrates the mind like theprospect of being hanged – and normally it concentrates on the fact that it isabout to be hanged...

    Anyway, I had a basic idea that comprised a group thatactually did try to coordinate its efforts. A group of ex-soldiers perhaps, betrayed by their political masters in Afghanistan,form a group intended to resist the expansion of federal authority. With political and financial problemsspreading, the feds start trying to clamp down harder on dissent...and overstepthemselves. (What might actually happento start the war?) The group then triesto take the war to the Federal Government.

    There are other issues that should be considered. Innocent people will get caught in the crossfire. There will be a very open debate over ifthese guys are freedom fighters – or terrorists. How will this play out in a media more openlydivided between the MSM and independent bloggers, particularly if the group is concentratingon both Democrats and Republicans? Canthe FBI and state police track down a group that has the best in SFtraining? Which way will stategovernments jump? Will some of them turnto the rebels instead of the Feds? Whatabout the National Guard and the Army? Or the CIA’s private armies, complete with their own UAVs and stuff?

    And there will be spin-off effects. What about the rest of the world? Will some actually try to help the Feds? Or what about helping the rebels on thegrounds that a long near-civil war will torpedo American power around theworld? What will this do to immigration(legal or otherwise) into America?

    And if this is fought out, what will be the end result?

    This will be a very long term project, if I embark on it atall. Any comments, advice andsuggestions would be very helpful. And Iam not adverse to taking on collaborators?

    The working title is ‘Disunited States.’ I actually came up with the title, but HarryTurtledove pinched it...he’s always one step ahead. ;)


    PS – and I really think that someone should update Absolved.
  2. Gafarmboy

    Gafarmboy Monkey+++

    Sounds good

    The disenfranchised and disgruntled ex-military theme is the most probable and feasible of all scenarios to take place based on history. I personally like the premise and think it could have a unlimited amount of unintended consequences which would lend themselves to developing the story line. I would like to it happen. Keep us informed and good luck.
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    If you decide to do this project, I can provide Technology details for the Squad, and Tactical Comms, as well as inter-Group Comms. It would be interesting, to maybe weave a version Of MonkeyNet, into the Inter-Group Comms... ..... YMMV.....
  4. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    Any help is more than welcome.

  5. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Throughout history this has happened during the Revolutionary War there were people of this nation on both sides of the conflict . So there is information out there how it was handled for the taking . Seems like it would be a very good storyline and I know you can write it well from all the things I've read of yours . This would be more like a novel than a story.I'm up to reading it if your up to writing it !!
    Good luck in whatever you decide !!!
  6. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    I'm just thinking about the run-up to the war now.

  7. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    This "group" (for lack of a better word at this stage) will have to be extraordinarily intelligent as well as extraordinarily well trained in the art of war. And well above average in the capacity to reason to boot.
  8. Capt. Tyree

    Capt. Tyree Hawkeye

    Three things....

    Three things come to mind right away as far as themes to play that can develop the plot.

    The first is recurring examples of the loyalty that any soldier motivated to such extreme actions (from which there is no going back) must have to his or her fellow team members as well as to the U.S. Constitution they swore to defend against all enemies (foreign and domestic).

    Next is the daunting challenge of secure communications to coordinate activities with minimal risk of compromise when the rogue govt has a vast array of intel / computer / listening intercept capabilities "weaponized" against the populace. There can be incidents of compromise, countermeasures to test against future exposure, as well as going "retro" and using far older methods of relaying information that may be slow, but perhaps more certain.

    Third, is the aspect of funding and covert logistic supply. It's easy to say "raid an army post armory" etc., but recall the movie "The Dogs of War" and the weapon / supply arrangements they had to formulate.

    This is all stuff you will consider if you haven't already, but it's fun to chip in my two cents.
  9. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    All thoughts are welcome.

    Right now, I'm thinking about the lead-up to the war. Any thoughts?

  10. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    These could be Mustered Out SpecOps Personnel, that just don't fit into the society, they find themselves in. Maybe they have ran across each other in the Field, or at least have common Acquaintances, from "Back in the Day" Could be two run into each other in a Bar, just by happenstance, or wandering on Bikes, while on Road Trips to visit Old Comrades, and finding no satisfaction. So they pair up, for a while and form the Bond of Brothers in Arms. Then expand the group as they roam from one comrade to the next, as they find Buddies in the same situation. The .Gov is doing all kinds of oppressive stuff, that finally seals the Deal, for the group. Each of the group has specific Specialties, History, and Issues.

    ..... YMMV.....
  11. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    That's what I had in mind.

    The basic background for the main guy would be: Navy SEAL (in honour of Matt) deployed to Afganistan. Ends up commanding a mixed SF group in 2016 which is sent to attack a Taliban position. There's upwards of 2000+ Taliban and a load of weapons from Pakistan, but they're not worried because they have massive air power in support...

    Except the polititians change the plan when the group is already in contact, because of a (false) report that the compound is actually inhabited by women and children. Instead of a brief attack, the team finds itself fighting its way out of a deadly trap with minimal air power and take heavy losses. Several may even have been taken alive by the Taliban. The CO resigns when he gets back to the FOB after nearly killing the political general who cravenly ignored his pleas for air support - they can't charge him because it would be a political disaster.

    How does that sound?

    I'm going to be vague on the details of the future history, because the book will otherwise rapidly become outdated. Basically, Pakistan will go Jilhadist in 2017, but the nutters are smart enough not to start an immedadiate war with India. Instead, they provide support to radical factions in Saudi and trigger off a Saudi civil war. Oil prices rise sharply and the economy takes a major downturn.

  12. sgt peppersass

    sgt peppersass Monkey+

    excellent idea. Your great at writing so im sure it would be a good read. I like the idea of the saudi civil war and having it impact us over here with the prices of gas sky rocketing.
  13. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    Thank you. Any thoughts on the runup to the war would be welcome.

  14. sgt peppersass

    sgt peppersass Monkey+

    maybe when things get out of control over here, toss in a moral dilema for the soldiers to either follow orders or help the american people.
  15. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    The story starts with an ATF raid on someone who has beentargeted (unknown to the agents) for being a ‘loud-mouth.’ The agents have been warned that the suspectis armed to the teeth and ready to fight, so they’re jumpy when they landaround his house and move in. The resultis a shoot-out where the agents panic and grossly overreact, discovering –afterwards – that they’ve managed to kill a man and his entire family. Shocked, the ATF agent in charge, genuinelyhorrified at the disaster, remorstrates with the director of the ATF. The director, however, wishes to cover up thedisaster and presents a false version to the press...

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />

    ...Which explodes in his face when secret tapes from thehouse are leaked onto the internet by some of the dead man’s friends. The entire world sees agents gunning downsmall children. The ATF’s cover-upexplodes when the shocked agent leaks the file on the loud-mouth, including anumber of charges that have been invented from whole cloth, and the internetbloggers tear it apart. The MSM lookslike fools in front of the entire world, as does the ATF and thePresident. Washington is full of peoplegoing into full CYA mode.

    The hero convinces his friends that it is time to act. The government either can’t or won’t rein inthe ATF. They launch an assassination attempton a high-ranking agent, blow up a building and launch a propaganda campaign. Washington suddenly starts feeling verythreatened...

    Where might things go from here?
  16. jasonl6

    jasonl6 Monkey+

    Since he has Navy ties what about a preemptive strike against the government (EMP, bunker busters at strategic command centers, ect) that would level the playing fields so to speak. You could take out the NYC United Nation building to let the other countries know this is an American civil war) The government would not be watching it's own Navy and would not be ready for a single rouge ship/sub to attack it's primary targets. You could even eliminate some of those in charge in the initial attacks and move someone that so far left into the spotlight that instantly outlaws individuals owning guns ect.

  17. ChrisNuttall

    ChrisNuttall Monkey+++

    If the situation did get worse and the Feds massively overreacted, what states might decide to ban Feds from operating within their territory? If that happens, will the civil unrest turn into civil war?

  18. sgt peppersass

    sgt peppersass Monkey+

    it could turn into one, i dont know how much different the states are from the north/south such as the real civil war. I've only left new england a couple times so its hard to tell for me. Also maybe show a power vaccum of some sort.
  19. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I think one could use the East/West, rather than North/South differences, this time around. Or Rural/Urban,subUrban differences, as to where to make the split in a Civil Conflict. The West is already very Upset with Liberal Easterners, trying to tell US, how we must live, and conduct our business. They think that because they squandered their resources, and lands, that they can dictate to us, how we need to manage our lands and homes. They would like to make all Federal Lands a Wilderness Park, that they can just come and visit, on occasion, but we can not touch.... .....
  20. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2015
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